The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area General Truck Talk Read this if you use spray brake cleaner !

Probably all of us have used brake cleaner from a spray can.

The difference between " chlorinated " & " non-chlorinated can " save your life.

I usually buy chlorinated - you seem to get a little more.

Never gave it much thought.

Then I read this:

@ http://www.brewracingframes.com/safety-alert-brake-cleaner--phosgene-gas.html



Jim

Thanks Jim

We used Carbontetrachloride to clean brakes when I was in the RCAF years ago. We were warned to never apply any flame near it or worse smoke while your working with the stuff as it creates phosgene gas and your dead.

Remember the brass pump-type fire extinguishers from the 40's and 50's? Those things used carbon tet as their fire suppression fluid. It was also a favorite thread tapping lubricant around the shop where I grew up, and we also used if for cleaning voltage regulator points and other electrical stuff. It was not until years later that we learned it's a carcinogen, among other nasty side effects.
Jerry

THIS IS VERY REAL, PAY ATTENTION
Had a very similar experience a few years ago, cleaned a 1 1/2 " crack in a hydraulic oil tank with brake cleaner then mig welded with argon / helium mix gas. Short story is I burnt my sinuses and permanently lost about 70% of my smell. I feel I was lucky it was a small job.

Yes. Thank you for making this safety announcement. I was completely unaware and happy to have the info.

I will never buy chlorinated spray brake cleaner again.
The guy in the article had this happen to him in 2009.
I wonder how is health is today.
I never look at labels.
I will now.



Jim

thanks for the warning! scary stuff!

I just watched a Youtube video on cleaning oil soaked brake shoes on a '48 8N tractor. The guy was heating up the shoes with a propane torch after cleaning up the bulk of it with brake cleaner. I was getting ready to do the same thing later this week on an 8N I am in the middle of repairing. I think I will alter my plans now! Thank you for the heads up!
Maybe propane won't make phosgene gas, but I don't want to be that guinea pig.
Carl

Carl, yrs ago my older brother and his best friend
were working on a tractor tire, guys out there use propane
to air up their tires, any way they were just about finish
and my brother was walking back to his truck to get something and heard the blast, his friend had put the torch one more time to a spot on the wheel and it exploded, he was 34, had 3 kids.. took a long time for my brother to get over the accident. the guy lived a couple of days after getting to hosp..

I told my brother that I thought it was strange to air up a tire with propane, he said it was pretty common with the farmers where he lived.. a little off topic... just be careful around propane also..

Gents,

Not to rob the thread, but I do think it's topical:

What is a safe chemical to clean the metal prior to welding? I've heard acetone (which isn't Carbontetrachloride, but just to make certain it's safe).

Thank you for passing along the warning. Prior to this post, brake cleaner was my go-to for parts clean up.

Bill

Acetone is bad to breathe and it can be absorbed through the skin.

https://www.google.com/webhp?source...;espv=2&ie=UTF-8#q=acetone%20dangers

Use a "metal prep" and an appropriate mask and appropriate gloves.

There has been more than one welder killed or maimed by welding too close to a tractor tire with nothing but air in the tire. I know of one who was welding on a backhoe close to the tire. The only good thing was that he didn't feel a thing. I don't care about being off topic as long as we are talking about thinking before doing.

AS a former refrigeration mechanic, I have had too many experiences with phosgene. The old CFC refrigerants will form phosgene when exposed to flame, especially in the presence of copper. We were warned about this in trade school. Fortunately, my exposures were much smaller than the guy in the article however, I have heard that there is a lifetime exposure limit. I don't know how much of my limit I have used, but it is plenty. The smell i will never forget, nor the gag reflex of it in my throat.
My point here is that you can create phosgene from a leaky A/C unit in your truck without even buying hazardous solvents. I don't want to scare anyone, but if the A/C system has a leak, either get it fixed or emptied ASAP.

As long as we're talking about safe working practices, we are on topic.

After I posted this on another forum - this guy shared his experience when he was working on a vehicle that had been bondoed ....

" Brakleen and other volatile solvents of the type will release Phosgene gas when heated or burned. R-12 and other refidgerants as well as PVC plastic pipe will do the same. phosgene gas tirns into hydrochloric acid in your lungs! IT WILL kill you if you are exposed to enough of it. If you are exposed to massive amounts of it, death can come in minutes. severe exposure can lead to lethality in days. Even minor contact can be very harmful, leading to permanent damage to your lungs! Old auto AC leak detectors were called Halide detecters. A small leak of R-12 refridgerant waould cause a propane flame to turn purple, and give off a nasty smell (phosgene gas). HOWEVER - if a large leak was encountered, a large plume of heavy white gas would occur - nearly pure Phosgene gas! in a confined space like a car interior, or a small work bay, the mechanic was in dire straights. halide torches are now illegal for that reason.

When I worked for an auto shop, I decided to braze a new floor into my 66 chevy Biscayne trunk. I did not realize that the old one was heavily sealed with Bondo plastic body repair. The heat turned the plastic into phosgene gas and I was exposed, not realizing that I was being poisoned. 1/2 hour later, I suddenly couldn't breath and developed tunnel vision, while driving. I stopped in the middle of an intersection, and tried to exit my car, and then collapsed. At first a cop thought I was drunk, but an alert nurse who happened on the bscene noted that my fingernails and lips were blue, indicating a lack of oxygen. I spent 2 weeks in an oxygen tent in the hospital, and was told I have lost about 30% lung function - permanently.

If you use these solvents, 1) keep away from heat and open flame. 2) use in a well ventilated area. 3) wear eye protection, and gloves - keep it off your skin! Catch runoff on an absorbant pad and dispose in a METAL can, preferably with a lid. Do not use a plastic can, the solvent may melt it! 4) keep away from children and pets. Most of these solvents are carcinogenic - they can cause cancer. BE SAFE when using them! "


Jim

Cletis,
I recommend you make this a "sticky". Not only in this section, but maybe others too, like "Shop or Body".

I was not aware of this issue, so thanks for passing it on!