The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Self Canceling Turn Signal Project

As with every other hair brained idea I come up with, I could sure use YOUR input. Here is the setup..

My Dad was the guy who always drove down the road with a turn signal flashing all the time. Even with self canceling ones, if they didn't cancel, he would drive around that way. I was always.. "DAD.. Signals!!". Now it is MY turn. After being exposed to decent self canceling systems most of my life, using the old AD with a really nice SignalStat 900 leaves me hearing my wife or friends saying "DEVE... Signals!!

I can't hear the flasher (welcome to older age), so here we are. Thanks to an old friend, here is a thread that says to me.. I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE!

http://talk.classicparts.com/threads/new-how-to-article-for-a-classicparts-com-wiring-harness.22387/

So, I am wondering how to best skin this cat. Rather than wire up a piezo buzzer that aggravates everyone else in the truck, lets look at what is already out there and try to fix this issue in the most elegant fashion.

There are two types of modules currently out there that I have found.

1) Uses a timer and once you hit a momentary button, the user has three different programmable time settings. Once set, every time you use your momentary switch on the left or right, it blinks for XX time.

http://www.signaldynamics.com/self-canceling-turn-signal-module/

2) Uses the Gforces of a turn to cancel your blinkers after you have hit the momentary switch to indicate your desire to turn.

http://www.gasautosolutions.com/

So, both of these self canceling systems require momentary switches. That is fine and all, but I LIKE my SignalStat 900 and have invested enough in my nice turn signal system to wonder why we can't just use that. In fact, ANY old vintage turn signal system should handle it. We just need to figure out HOW.

The way I envision this is, the operator flips the handle UP for a right turn. This activates the blinkers. It self cancels after a time, or after the turn is accomplished. But since you forgot to put the handle back in neutral, you cannot make another signaled right turn until you go back into neutral. The left turn of course is just a few clicks down.

I am not sure why this isn't just a normal thing, but I guess it is not. YET! What do you all think? I have already contacted Gary about the Clever system and he is retired and though interested will not be getting back from his RV trip for a few months. Meanwhile, I wonder if anyone here might know how to accomplish this. I am not interested at all in adding momentary switches! We all already have turn signals!

Growing up we had an old man who drove an old truck who seemed to have the right blinker on all of the time. We referred to this as "He is in the process of an eventual right turn."
Don't change a thing Deve! We need people like you. It makes the rest of us feel that much younger.
Carl

well now, get rid of the signal and use your hands like we did back then, I did have them on my 52 but they were there when I bought it. do you guys even know the proper hand signals to use..

I can relate you guys. My Dad was unaware there was even a problem. He always had a smile on his face and happy. Even if everyone behind him was annoyed. As a kid we couldn't get our driver's license without knowing the proper hand signals. There are things you cannot do with a smart phone.

at times mine would not work on my 52 so I used the hand when I had to... did you guys have to parallel park on your test.. what annoyed me about my dad driving his new 49 GMC way back when was
he never liked going into 2nd.. he went from first to 3rd most of the time, I knew that wasnt right and I was only about 8..lol

I picked up a NOS add on turn switch at a swap meet years ago. It has a little rubber wheel that rides on the hub of the column. When you turn the steering wheel back it cancels the switch. I have it on my 56.

Get a much louder flasher, I remember large Ford F or C cab trucks in the late 60s early 70s that had flashers that sounded like two tin pans being bashed together, or train wheels going over a joint in the track.
Baring that just wire in a small buzzer and or a large pilot light that sits in the cab that is activated by the signal circuit.
It is just fine gaining years. Howie

wire in flashing bulbs on your dash in front of the steering wheel... can't miss them.

I can't hear anyway.

Gary at Gasautosystems says the unit he sells will detect even a lane change. That would be an elegant way to go if all you are doing is installing a kit that shut the blinker off after the turn. We just need to figure out how to emulate a momentary switch using the SS900. There are things out there like latching relays, etc to do it.

My problem is I am spread too thin right now to give it my undivided attention. I am replacing the floor in my 1953 3100. But upon further investigation, the floor is the easy part!

I would love to incorporate the ability to return the switch to neutral, but maybe this is a "take it in steps" proposition. I just wanted to see if the brain trust here at Stovebolt had any interest and I can always use your knowledge. So far, great responses and maybe with further brainstorming, we can get something cooked up.

This is not just for old guys that are hard of hearing. Anyone younger than 50 has been using self canceling systems all their life and would be lost not having it. As with everything else I do, I am happy to share it as a Tech Tip. If the Gods around here would want it, I would write it up so anyone can do it. Only fair since the ideas come from the collaboration.

Keep the ideas coming.

The reason I mention momentary Bart is because both solutions in my first post require it. Both the Gforce one and the timer one states that is a requirement. That is what I am trying to get around. I want to use both a 7 wire SS900 and a 4 wire standard blinker switch.

Edit: To be clear, nothing I do requires the user to add a bunch of non standard parts to their system in the hopes they have something that will work. I want the SS900 and a 4 wire switch that is STOCK to FIRE the system. I am not poo pooing your spring idea Bart. Could very well be the answer, but it has to be something that is solid and works for everyone.

If we take this a bit slower, let's look first at how to FIRE a kit that is expecting a momentary switch but gets a non-momentary switch. What electronics do we need to put in line with the switch to make that work? If its too involved, I am with you, but I do not like to take giant leaps without first looking at what is actually happening within the device and what it is expecting, vs what we can do to emulate this expectation. I am not as edumacated as some, so I like to look at all of the small stuff first.

I am not sure it matters that the SS900 is in right turn mode (for example) after the turn as been made as long as the system resets when you put it back in neutral. We need Tony Stark's Dad for this one!

Understood

Also, read gasautosolutions better. Gary has an idea there, but this incessant need for a momentary is kind of restrictive. How to make these modules work with regular switching isn't rocket science. If I had time, I could cook something up, but maybe there are OTHERS here with ideas that would make the solution better?

I'm thinking on this. Stay tuned.

People like to understand clearly what they are paying for. They want the option to make it themselves without paying hefty prices. They want to hear from others.

I'm trusting that erryone has cooled off. Please keep this and all threads on topic and be considerate of other peoples feelings.

To be clear, this is a very exciting project because lots of us have turn signals that do not self cancel. As stated, there are two types of modules available. One is based on time and has 3 user defined time settings. The other is based on movement. Both state a momentary switch is needed for Right and another for Left.

I am working (slowly since he is on vacation for 3 months) with the guy who created the motion one. But the timer one works like this... You push the button (or flip the switch) to begin the countdown timer which flashes the blinkers during the time interval. Since its momentary, there is no more voltage on the switch, so once the time interval is over, it shuts off. IF THIS WERE NOT MOMENTARY, as far as I can tell, the only adverse thing would be that it would restart the timer again causing an infinite loop. This would not work of course.

The point is, we need to figure out a way for the timer module to NOT reset until we flip our old fashioned turn signals to the Center or neutral. This is something we can overcome if we put our heads together. Anyone with any ideas, please say. We want this to be as easy to install as the turn signals were in the first place and be cost effective. Thanks for thinking about it, and I apologize for the sideshow. Maybe now we can get somewhere.

this type of vintage unit can be found at swap meets, no need to reinvent the wheel
same type I had on my first vintage panel truck long ago

Bill

It looks like a good feature Bill. The problem is, are there hundreds of them available so everyone who wants one can have it? I would love to see one though. Maybe a way to replicate it?

This is one of the common problems when thinking of a larger group. Ways to obtain the parts from a steady source, reliability and of course perfect function. If we could get good pictures of this, it would sure help further the understanding of it.

I seriously doubt there dozens of folks that want the canceling feature, let alone "hundreds" .... one style here, NOS or rebuilt .... or look for a Grote like this

you want modern tech, there's dozens of add on modules on e-bay, units like this use "vintage" appearing units - for electronic gizmos for canceling, any motorcycle shop can supply them, early Harley owners need them

Bill

Deve, my Model A has Rod's idea. Has 3 little 1/8" bulbs in the dash. 2 red's left and right for turn signal, and a green in the middle for bright headlights. Can't hear anything with the open headers, but the lights catch my attention. We've all got daily drivers with self canceling, so we don't think about it.

Darn!!! The dr pepper trick didnt work


....so I went with the dash leds....

That's what I thought about the HEI mod. So yes there are electronic modules out there, which are mentioned in my first post and why we need to figure out how to ditch the momentarys and use the turn signal switch. (You can't, and now we have come full circle). It would be nice to see the action of the vintage ones and how they get them to self cancel using this hub you are talking about, but then again, I am trying to remove the concept of mechanical parts because since we are using an electronic gizmo as you call it, might as well figure out an electrical method of switching as well. Maybe incorporate the two. Great conversation! Every time we bounce ideas around we get closer.

Sweet job Gus...would be hard to miss those.

Yep. That is something I want to do as well. Very nice!

Gus, you are one smart cookie! (I loved the Dr. Pepper look! ... that was pretty funny!)

can't beat a DP, Gus,you rock
dont show eagle that deal or he will get another idea and light this site up like a Christmas tree

I'm just glad everyone on this thread seems to use turn signals. I'd rather follow Deve for some time than some others... at least I anticipate he might turn for the first 20 miles or so I'm behind him.
I remember riding with my grandfather when I was a kid... during a right turn he would hit the turn signal lever as his hand passed on the start of the SECOND revolution of the steering wheel. - hey I did signal that turn!
I'd respond with - but no-one on that last street saw it!?

In my original post you will see a link to a forum post where Bill Hanlon (an old friend) decided to install a piezo buzzer to remind him he had the turn signals on. Very innovative idea. This is turning out to be a very informative thread.

I'm interested in the piezo buzzer set-up; however, 95 dB seems like over kill to me, I can still hear, kind of.......What? Huh? Speak up!

Anyone know if there's a piezo buzzer with a lesser (cab appropriate) dB rating?

I have to admit, I'm intrigued by the notion of a self-canceling turn signal system, so I hope you electrical whiz bangs come up with an innovative solution.

I use those same buzzers for oil pressure and water temp warnings for the CIS. Bill suggested just wrap them in paper towels or something to dampen the sound. Maybe even just masking or electrical tape over the top hole?

Thanks, I might give this one from Radio Shack a try. It's rated at 76 dB.

I just installed one of these on my motor home for an "antenna up" alarm. It's loud and will get your attention.

It's not old age!!!

I put turn signals in my 41 and I leave them on all the time and my parents tease me about it! Ha ha

..... I'm only 18