The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Brass expansion plug kit came with steel plugs?

Just ordered a freeze plug kit off amazon which was advertised as Brass and it turned out only 2 plugs in the whole kit were brass. ( no wonder it was only $2 more than the steel kit)
Looking at the Manufactures website, the description says the brass kit comes with brass plugs for only the water jacket plugs.
1- Is it true only two of the plugs go into the water jacket? others go into lifter area or something?
2- Think i should return and get all brass? i know the other two sizes ( disc and cup style) are made in brass.

I'm still nervous about installing the disc plugs and knowing i tap them good enough to stay in...

On a side note- do people normally paint the plugs or not when repainting an engine? I'm assuming yes unless they wanna see the shiny brass. the steel ones look to have some sort of zinc coating so i'm not sure how well paint will stick.

I just installed the same kit on my 216. The side plugs were brass and they go in with a snug fit. The steel ones are the convex ones that need to be deformed a bit. They go in against a shoulder. I am not sure that brass would work for those plugs.

I would assume that when you paint the engine, you paint the plugs too. That is what I did. I don't see any reason not to.

i figured the same thing ( maybe brass too soft for the big discs) but i looked them up and they are available in brass or steel....
there is also a larger cup style steel one and several small cups in steel. haven't looked to see where they go yet...

Are you confident you whacked them well enough to stay in? i'd hate to have the one under the bell housing decide to pop out...

I use brass plugs for anything that has coolant behind them, usually cup plugs but not always. There is no advantage to brass plugs in the oil system or cam end plates because there is no corrosion problem.
A wipe of non hardening sealer around the edge of the plug before you put them in works great.

Thanks Jim,
so are there only 2 plugs with coolant behind them on the 235? I'm guessing the discs are used for the cam end plates?

seems like some people specifically use hardening sealer (permatex 1a or 2 from memory?) and others say go non hardening.

Thanks!

Tj

There are four large plugs that seal in the coolant. Two on the side and one at each end. On my 38 216, the holes were in good shape. I took a wire wheel to them and then used blue thread locker on the plugs. The convex plugs were a very tight fit and I had to be careful to get them without going crooked. Once seated I placed a small flat faced hammer against the plug and hit the hammer with a bigger one. I created just a slight deformation.

thanks for the info. just got in form working on my engine and i found what you described. did you use brass plugs for the discs on the ends?

I'm disappointed because the MFG description says all plugs in water jacket are brass which obviously is not true. on one had i wanted the brass but at the same time it's not likely to ever be a problem in my lifetime if i use steel i wouldn't think...

my side plugs don't seem that bad but I'm thinking i will still replace since the engine is stripped. opinion?

They rust from the inside out...

Mike B

If the block is out of the truck, this is your best time to remove all the rust and sediment in the water jacket. With all the cooling plugs you can blast all of that out with a pressure washer. wouldn't pass up that chance.

yea I'll definitely be doing that. just have to decide if i go ahead and return kit or get a couple more brass plugs vs using the steel i have. there is a lot of flaking rust inside i can already see through the water pump holes. anything i can do besides the pressure washer?

i kind of went out of sequence and started pulling parts before i got all the gunk off. should have spent more time getting stuff off before exposing holes. i think I'm going to use the new gaskets as a template to make some covers i can slap on while i continue cleaning.

Tj

Is it possible that powdered Radiator sealer that they used to sell ends up settling where there is lower circulation gumming up the works? Every engine of this vintage I have taken apart has had problems with the drain plug area being plugged up. It's not completely rust, but a black substance and as hard as a rock. I don't have a pressure washer so I take them to the Truck Wash.

Drain plugs are at/near the bottom.
Sediments deposit and accumulate from the bottom up.

are these the threaded plugs that came in the kit? toward the bottom of the passenger side? i haven't tried to find them yet...

You can use rods and wires and a garden hose if you wish, the pressure washer replaces muscle power with water power.
If you have the block on an engine stand so you can rotate it, things flush out more easily. If not, just put it on the floor upside down (on blocks) and laying on it's sides.

One thing that I find helps is to run drill bits through all the block to head cooling holes to remove the rust and open them up to full size, lets bigger pieces fall out. Do the same when flushing the head.

It's on a stand. Don't plan on taking the head off. hopefully now that I've got all the accessories and manifolds off I can turn it. it was pretty tight before. I'm thinking its at about the capacity of the stand and with it being so long...

Tj

When I was rebuilding my 216 this winter, I used a breaker bar with the handle end through the stand pivot to rotate the engine. I found the handle inadequate. For me it was fairly balanced when it was all together. Taking the head off made it bottom heavy but when the crankshaft came out, it was nice and balanced again.

I made a plate that goes on the engine stand that fits these 6 cylinders perfect. Using it, no problems with balance, but that is with the head off. I only put the head on after everything else, then never turn it upside down after. Please be careful TJ. I understand the cheapo engine stands out there and can only imagine you are taking your life in your hands in turning it over with the head on at all. Not worth it to rotate it. You can get to the gunk with a coat hanger and some patience.

My question still stands though. Tim pointed out the laws of gravity, Thanks for the obvious, but my concern is..

How on a totally closed system where there are NO, ZERO extra chemicals, substances, etc. introduced (other than anti-freeze), do you get sediment at all? I can see a little sand casting breaking loose from the manufacture, maybe just a little dirt from changing out the waterpump, or if it's a dusty day when you are refilling your radiator, but unless you are putting a teaspoon of dirt in with every refill, where does the sediment come from?

My unedumacated guess is, a little rust from it sitting over long periods, some sand casting breaking out, and a LOT of Bars-Leak crystals that people think is healing the radiator, but in fact is plugging up the less circulated areas of the block. Again, I am a Farmer first, so maybe there is something I am missing.

We do not know (or nobody has really enlightened us) on the velocity of the water as it circulates through the block. Also, what areas are not circulating at all because they are out of the way (like the drain plug area). Also, does the new Waterless Antifreeze solve any of this in any way? Not smart to sluff off new technology without examining it first.

Be sure to "fish" around inside the block for "extra" expansion plugs. Back in the 60's I pulled 3 and 4 plugs our of engines because some folks would just drive the plugs on into the block and put the new ones in. Usually it was on cars with other than original engines where space was limited..

...I've heard it said that its better to mix concentrated anti-freeze with distilled water but hey, don't the metal block contaminate the distilled water anyway!!

...after 60 years, or more, just about anything is possible!

I wasn't planning on turning it but it would make it easier to blow out crude. Definitely won't be turning it with my head underneath. i bolted the head of the stand directly to the top bell housing holes and used some little extenders to catch two bottom ones. in hindsight that probably made it bottom heavy and restricted access to the upper disc style freeze plug. might have to replace that one after picking the engine with the loader again.

the cylinder sleeves look pretty clean but on most of the other surfaces and in the head water jacket there is plenty of rust scaling off the walls.