The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Oil to rockers

Howdy, The 235 I am running in my 50 3100 has 20 lbs. of oil pressure at idle and pegs the stock 30 lb. gauge when I barely touch the throttle but there is very little oil getting to the rockers. The engine was rebuilt several years ago and runs fine. It does not have an external filter and I am running 10W30 oil. I am used to SBC engines spraying oil everywhere. The tube coming out of the rocker assembly is very loose. What do you guys suggest to increase the oil flow? Thanks to all!

What year 235?
What model vehicle was in originally in?

What is the engine serial number pressed into the block at the rear of the distributor?

This information might guide speculation regarding the possible reasons for what you describe.

Different years had different oil pathways and different connectors to the rocker arms.

Also, different types of lifters were used in different years/types of engines. This can make a difference.

I would hookup a temp oil gauge and check the stock one.Normally 235s don't have 20 psi at idle. Than I would do what Tim is saying.


Pete

I will check the serial number later today, I don't know what vehicle the engine was originally in. It is a later 235 with 4 bolts holding the valve cover on. What is "normal" oil pressure for these engines that have several thousand miles on them since rebuild. Tag on the engine states that is was bored .060 and crank turned .010 . Thanks.

Probably around 35 PSI at around 1200 RPM on a high-pressure 235/261 engine.

As Pete posted, 20 PSI at idle is not bad.

After you post your engine code (to ID the year, maybe), people here will be able to help you trace oil feeds leading/ending at the rocker arm assembly.

Also post the block and head date casting codes.

Here is a 54 car 235
...video...

In Dad's video there may even be a little more oil then correct, as he has a 1959 or later rocker oil connector which force all of the oil through the rockers.

Thanks for the information, video and pictures. I will get the casting numbers and get back to ya'll. I do not have any oil flow coming out of the rocker ports.

mine has very little oil,

Here's my examples:

55.2 235 No oil flow to the rocker arms.

Rebuilt 55.2 235 Oil flow to rocker arms; priming with drill.

If your engine is like my first video, quit running it until you clear some oil lines. It made me feel a little sick to watch my first video again...I just didn't know at the time...

Brad

OK, here are the numbers on the head: CON 9, 3836848, GM 29, K 181. On the block 3769716, Serial: F0524JC. I ran the motor at fast idle for 5 minutes and no oil came out from the bleeder holes. Thanks for all help.

Have you removed and cleaned the rocker arm assembly?

Keep the parts in-order when you clean them.

Clean/clear the hole in the top of each rocker-arm.

Clean the two tubes/pipes - clean from each tube's open-end to its closed-end (and clean/clear the holes on the bottom side of each tube)?

When you have the rocker arm assembly off, remove (and number) the push rods and then crank the engine
- does oil come out the oil-feeder tube to the rocker arms?
- do not do this until someone else agrees this would be OK/safe -
- or, wait until someone else yells "that's a stupid idea" -

1/8" or 1/4" pipe plug on the center passenger side of the cylinder head- check for oil flow there first.

Brad

My 1959 235 initial runup video here:


shows how much oil to the rockers at 2000 rpm with the valve cover off. I get 30psi oil pressure at idle, mid-range and at 3000.

If you idle it though, the volume out of the rockers is very different. It more seeps out than runs out. Very little oil coming out at all really. It sounds to me like you do not have a problem other than the engine may be slightly worn.

Pull the distributor and run a drill with large screwdriver chucked in it to be sure without running the engine, to see if passages are clear. Agree with trying another gauge too.

I will check the plug on the side of the head for old flow, there is no oil flow thru the oil feeder tube. I removed the feeder tube and inserted a 14 gauge wire. How far should I be able to insert this wire? I kept hitting something solid, I assume the block. Shouldn't I be able to insert the wire into the block? Thanks for all the help!

Oil should come out.

Brad

Yeah, that's true Brad. This is the classic example of why people run a new line from the oil pressure gauge connection to the center of the head (external). I would think you should be able to fish using safety wire or something. Keep us posted. I do not know how those passages are routed, so interested in knowing the answer to your question myself.

Casting numbers lead to it being a 1958-1962 on Mr. Tim's website. I couldn't figure out serial number.

Brad

(There is also a picture of the oil line routing somewhere on there)

So, that's why wire doesn't go down. It has a jog there. Maybe better luck opening the side cover and removing the center plug? There is the idea of compressed air. Of the cam bearings are getting what they need, it is definitely that upwards passage. Maybe others with more experience could give us some ideas on how to properly clean that passage out. It would help a lot of people.

According to the pictures of the valve train I have seen, my rocker assembly predates 1959 but the K181 number on the cylinder head dates it 1961. Does this oiling system require the drilled/slotted head bolt? I do not see such a bolt, if it does, which bolt is it? This is getting interesting, Thanks.

Note the 1/8" plug fitting location I mentioned. No need to remove the side cover to get to it.

6XChevy- if the engine was rebuilt years ago, and has run fine, it probably has whichever bolt it needs. Right now, some sludge is probably blocking an oil passage. Can you post pictures of your rocker arm setup? It would give you a few more eyes-on to help you out.

Brad

The rocker arm setup I have is the same as Fig. 12 and Fig. 16 from Tim's earlier post on this subject. Sorry, I ain't good at posting pixtures.

The oil passage is a passage, not a pipe. To get around the obstructions at the top, I would remove the side cover and remove that 1/8" NPT plug and slide your safety wire down from there. Most people don't know that the passages are more accessible that way. The outside plug is at too much of a 90 degree to even get wire to move. Let us know if you are successful in getting a piece of safety wire down to the bottom in any case. I am betting when you do, the problem will go away.

oil is good!

I agree that sludge is probably the problem, I removed the side cover and broke two hex wrenches trying to get the plug out so no go there. I removed the plug at the top of the head and there was some sludge in there. The lifters and push rods were cleaner than I expected. I am going to try compressed air to try to clean out the passages. Do they make a liquid drano for engine blocks? Thanks

Wow! Keep us posted. It's hard to know what each individual here is going to run up against. A little heat on that plug would probably break it loose, but not everyone has a torch.

I wish others with more experience would chime in. Seems to me one of those big cans of carb cleaner with the plastic straw and enough compressed cleaner, then change the oil right away may work (down the passage). I hate to suggest stuff I havent tried myself or could be missing possible ramifications.

If it were me, I would pull the center outer head bolt(spark plug side of engine) and see how slugged up the bolt and hole is.
The oil for the rockers comes up around that bolt.
If you have the distributor out I would spin the pump with that bolt removed and see if you get oil there. I would suggest starting it up without that bolt, but oil will likely hit the hood if oil is getting there.

I will remove the bolt and check the sludge build up, I think the passage is plugged in the block. I'll get the old gal cleaned out one way or the other. The carb cleaner sounds like a good idea. I appreciate you guys.

There is a simple, very effective trick to clear that passageway that has been used for at least 50 years. Remove the passenger's side center head bolt and fabricate (or buy) a dowel rod that's a snug fit into the hole in the head. These tools used to be sold on the Lisle rack along with a bunch of other stovebolt-specific tools, back in the mid-1950's. Fill the hole with motor oil, insert the dowel, and smack it HARD with a 3-lb. hammer. The hydraulic pressure will clear the clog. It's a lot simpler and more effective than fooling around with a piece of wire, which will be completely ineffective no matter how you attempt it.
Jerry

Definitely will try the dowel! So simple, even I should have thought of it. Would 120 Lbs. of air pressure do the same?

Maybe, but the dowel/hammer trick will develop several hundred pounds of pressure, maybe 1K or more, and it's a quick shock effect, not a constant pressure. It's worked for me on a lot of occasions. Follow up with air pressure if you want to, to confirm the passages are clear.
Jerry

Removed the center head bolt and tried the hammer and dowel but no luck. Once oil is flowing (LOL) how does it get past the threaded bolt? I was able to insert a wire as far down as the base of the distributor. I am going to spin crank with out the head bolt in to see if any oil will possibly come out. Thx.

Here's a scan I did a few years ago. It shows how oil is fed through the block.

http://s1074.photobucket.com/user/w...amp;_suid=145762193716905672578087643153

I saw a 235 awhile back that had the return line from the filter plumbed into the port on the head. Not a bad idea in my book.

If you crank it with the bolt off and get oil spurting out, then it is the head bolt causing the problem. You need a special head bolt with a hole in it, or you can take a thin grinding disc and make a path for the oil to flow past it. (away from the engine so you don't get metal dust in the oil). Are you sure there isn't already a hole in the bolt?

The reason I do not like to see a piece of tubing from the drivers side plumbed all the way around to the passenger side external port is because that is how I can tell the engine has not been oiling properly and someone took the easy way out. (which I see a lot!) No offense, just would be nice if you could get it to work as intended.

I wonder how many of these engines that require a bolt with a passage still has that particular bolt in the head, just in the wrong location because the rebuilder didn't know one of them was different.

Thanks Dave, The bolt is definitely solid, I have been considering drilling the bolt like I've seen in pictures. Passages in the head are clear. What is the purpose of the slot cut in the top of the drilled bolt? Is it for identification only? Thanks.

The slotted one is the one with the hole in it. It is for identification purposes. I have a few hundred pounds of head bolts and in looking through the stash, I found a few of them that were made for this as well as one that someone did themselves. I took several pics of them and they can be found at the site picture archive here:

http://devestechnet.com/Home/MorePix#headboltoiler

(click to get full size)

Good post/points, Deve

Not offensive at all.

Dave, will you sell me one of those drilled bolts?