The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Brownie Transmisson info. needed

I have just picked up a Brownie Trans. to install in an early 1947 GMC EC 302. Does anyone here have any set-up procedure that would help me along on this install? This trans. is suitable for a 1.5 ton truck and I do have the complete shifter assembly with it. Is it better to mount as close as possible to the back of the main trans.? Should the Brownie be mounted in line with the main trans or lower? Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Does your truck have a 1 or 2 piece driveshaft currently? If it's got a 2-piece, just install the Brownie in place of the carrier bearing, and slightly lower than the main trans centerline so the U joints flex a little. An inch or two difference in height should be sufficient. Try to avoid getting any of the U joints into an extreme amount of flex, but do use enough angle that the shafts aren't running in an exactly straight line with each other. I believe there's a Dana/Spicer website somewhere that has setup instructions for auxiliary transmissions and multi-piece drivelines.
Jerry

The info on driveshafts, angles and position/angle of the auxiliary is found in the manuals linked here.
http://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/driveline/setup/index.html

I have detailed mounting info for a Watson series 40 auxiliary transmission in a GM truck.
What model is your transmission?

Does anyone here frequent the Antique Truck club web? I wonder if they may have more life experience with installing, setting up and operating the Brownie Aux box. It has been many moons ago since I last ran one and have never installed one. Thoughts please.
Al

There are some pictures of the auxiliary in my '46 in my signature, along with a video of how it drives.

Mine is mounted with the rear output in the approximate location of where the carrier bearing once would have been. It is important that the shafts of both transmissions and the pinion shaft of the differential be aligned, and the angle of the driveshafts (resulting from the difference in height between each component) be within the allowable specs, that I believe Grigg linked to. I used a carpenter's square placed over the flats of the yokes with the shafts removed, a plumb bob, and some careful side to side measurements all measured from the main transmission as the reference to get the aux box lined back up after some maintenance a few years back.

My shifter for the aux box is mounted to a bracket made of some angle iron bolted to the side of the main transmission in the same manner that the manual (non-vacuum) 2 speed rear end shift lever would have been. (the 2 speed rear shifter is nicely illustrated in my Owner's manual but I've never seen one in person, only the vacuum type). Shifter comes up through the floor to the drivers side of the transmission in the mid to rear portion of the removable floorboard. No idea if this applies to your model truck, but it is an illustration of an install.

Hello 2ton46, Nice truck and your "Brownie" does shift very nice. Did you complete the install yourself? My GMC is very similar to your truck but I do have PTO and a dump box as well as a short wheelbase. I envision mounting my Brownie at the midship bearing frame bracket and take my measurements from that point. I had read that you do want some U-joint deflection as no deflection is bad and will wear our your U-joint faster. My dump control levers are currently located right in front of the gas pedal (not so good). I plan to move them to the right of the main box shift tower, the aux shifter positioned like yours. Do you have a 2 speed rear end?
Al

You definitely need some defection in the U-joints, when I mentioned all of the transmission and pinion shafts should be in alignment, it was meant that they were all sharing the same slope as each other. They will have be at different heights, and can be to some extent, a bit side to side to side from each other, this is where the driveline angle comes from(if there are both up and down and side to side differences the actual angle of the driveline is a little more fun to measure). You will find the engine is slightly sloped down to the rear, and your pinion shaft at the differential is pointing slightly up towards the front. Depending on your current driveshaft, and if it has an even number of U-joints your pinion shaft should be pointed up at the same angle as your engine is pointed down. If you have an odd number of U-joints, this angle might not be the same and you may have to shim your axle to rotate it when you install the brownie and end up with an even number of U-joints. To end up with smooth vibration free rotation of the driveline, the angles between the transmission and driveline, and driveline and whatever it connects to have to be equal and opposite so that they cancel each other out, when there are two U-joints in the system.

I have a single speed rear, 6.17 ratio.

Thanks for your follow-up information. When spring finally gets here I will start on the install of the Brownie. In your pictures, I noticed that you have what appears to be a Lycoming V-12 mounted and running on the back of your truck. Is that engine part of an Auburn project, or American LaFrance fire truck?

Alan,

What model of Brownie do you have? Has nothing to do with mounting.

Ed

Hello Ed, I purchased the Brownie from a picture, no tag was noted. The unit is not one of the larger, newer units that are more common or popular. I should have the box in my possession by mid week then I can more fully define what type and model it is. I do know that it came out of a late 30's International 1.5 ton truck. I was happy to get the input shaft, mounting cross member and the complete shifter/linkage set-up. I only have a certain amount of room as my truck is a short wheelbase and is already congested with PTO shaft, pump and dump hardware. It will fit I am sure, I will just need to use what space is available.

Yes, The V-12 is an American LaFrance fire truck engine. My dad found it in a dumpster about 15 years ago or so. Since I don't have a truck that it fits in, it makes a wonderful running display on the skid setup sitting on the flatbed. Always is a hit at local cruise-ins and a few shows I've gone to with it.

2ton46..... To bad you don't have an Auburn chassis or parts car. The engine would work nice in that application also. Lycoming, Auburn and American-LaFrance are similar to Pierce-Arrow and Seagrave. Seagrave bought the engine rights from Pierce-Arrow when they went broke and used the same basic V12 engine up into the early 1960's. Do you know the CID and hp of the American-LaFrance engine? For other projects I also have a Pierce-Arrow V12 and a Seagrave V12 for parts. If you happen to have any additional pictures of your Brownie install, I would sure like to look them over.

2ton46, One additional note for you. I have been thinking of having my windshield frame plated. I see your before and the chromed after. What a nice addition to your truck. Good for you on adding a bit of shine to the cab of your truck. I LIKE. Did you do the side window frames also?

The V-12 is 491 cu. in, and something like 190 @ 3550. Its one of the earlier series F models that were LaFrance made after they purchased the tooling/patterns. Single 2 barrel stromberg carb and a little less displacement than some of the later series.

The windshield frame is the only one chromed, I figured it would take longer to rust that way and does look sharp. My old frame was rotted beyond reasonable repair thanks to a tomcat in the 70's that started some rust that never would stop. The side window frames and glass are original to the truck, as is the rear window glass. I'll see if I have any more pictures. Might have to crawl under and snap a few if I get a chance.

I am still looking for some specific information regarding my New (old) "Brownie" transmission. I have just received the Brownie and have possession, not even unloaded yet. I have added Brownie Aux. Trans. pictures to my posted photo file listed below. This aux. trans. is probably early 40's material, I can see no tag on it but it does have some casting numbers that you can see on the pictures. The box was originally out of a late 30's International 1.5 ton. The condition shows its age but but I can see no significant damage either externally or internally. It weighs a little less than 200 lbs. If you think you may know the model and MFG., I would certainly appreciate any information or links to MFG. literature. It is possible that it could be an early Spicer, Brown-Lipe or Watson. Yes, when the weather moderates, this Aux. box will be installed in the EC-302 dump truck also in the photo file.

The big side cover is not yet familiar to me, not sure what brand it is. I agree that it is older though.
When you get it unpacked let's see some more pictures.

Grigg

Grigg, Ed and Others, I will try to get a better look at the top of this Aux Box tomorrow and post additional pictures. I do see that this box does NOT have any provision for a PTO drive. Hmmmmm, it also has a speedo drive on the output side of trans, that is OK and probably typical. This box looks to have a lighter front mounting bracket and also the big heavy rear bracket. The U-joints look rather antiquated and may need to be retrofitted to a more modern version. The shift linkage looks very robust and appears to allow the shift tower to be mounted to the left side of the main box shift tower. It may be a bit congested as I also plan to relocate the dump shift levers to the left side of the main box shifter. Thoughts please.....

The shift rails are centered so the shift mechanism may be mounted left, center or right, std. Shifter used in all cases, mount made for each application.

The wide spaced rear mount is designed to control the torque of the box, the front mount allows rotation so there is no conflict between the two mounts. Mounts are usually rubber mounted to isolate vibration, if that matters.

Nice truck.

Ed

Ed, Do you happen to have any images that would show an installed aux. box? I am curious about what you refer to as rubber mounts. I thought I would just mount metal to metal? I agree, it looks to me like the forgiving mount would be the front mount whereas the rear mount looks to hold everything stable and does not allow for the drive-line torque to move the box. I looked at another aux box that had one of the rear mount ears broken off. I am sure due to over torque and probably a little looseness in the mechanical mounting between the frame bracket and the aux box.

Al,

I have used rubber grader blade mat'l that comes 1" by 4" by length. Check w/ nearest snow plow garage. I use rubber on both ends of box.

Your truck truck looks nice, however, I question if you have enough room, lengthwise, for an additional transmission. Each driveshaft usually takes 18" length to allow for axle movement, Jeeps and others can get by with less, life is shortened.

Send me email and I'll send px, do not have px acct. by the way, where in UT are you?

Ed

Al,

my box is mounted with rubbers at all 4 corners. I'm not sure of the original biscuits that were used, but on mine a close match turned out to be Anchor Industries No. 2009. Its a round biscuit with a bit of a cone shape to one side that works out pretty good with a heavy washer under the mounting bolt head. There is also one on the underside of the crossmembers it attaches to, supported with another washer and a sleeve above the mount ear on the transmission. This gives a rubber sandwich to absorb vibration and cushion in either direction. They are available from several sources, and list for less than $2.00 at summit.

As far as driveline, the front shaft between the two transmissions could conceivably be made quite short, something like a couple inches longer than just the slip yoke. As long as your careful with mounting, this shaft really doesn't have to do a whole lot of moving, as it will only change as your engine or the aux trans moves in their mountings. A limiting factor will be clearance for the shift rods and shifter, and clearance over the short shaft while maintaining a reasonable angle. My aux box is mounted with the input shaft about 3" lower than the output of the main trans if I remember correctly, this both gives the correct angles to the shaft, and provides clearance for the shift rods to transition to the side of the shaft as they connect to the shift lever. I forget the length of the shaft I have in front, but the front u-joint on the aux box is nearly at the back of my cab, so about 2 feet or so. Ed is correct in his concern about enough lengthwise room to squeeze it all in and keep everything in reasonable alignment.

The speedometer cable does connect to the output side of the aux box, as this allows the speedometer to be accurate no matter what gear combination your using. Since the speedometer gear in your aux box is likely to be setup for a different rear axle ratio, and speedometer gears for it are probably only slightly less rare than fresh dinosaur droppings, you'll need an alternative solution. Assuming your main transmission and speedometer combination are currently accurate: When you have the transmissions disconnected, carefully turn the output of each transmission while counting the revolutions of both the driveline and the speedometer gear. (you could also disassemble and count teeth, your looking to compare the ratio of driveshaft turns to speedometer cable turns). If they both turn the same amount, great you don't need to do anything but hook the speedometer cable to the aux box. If there is a difference, you'll have to get a ratio adapter to put into your speedometer cable to make the output of the aux transmission look like what comes from your main transmission.

Example:
Main trans. driveshaft turns 4 times per 1 revolution of speedometer cable.
Aux trans. driveshaft turns 3.5 times per 1 revolution of speedometer cable.
Your ratio adapter would need to be 4/3.5 = 1.143 to give you the same speedometer readings as before adding the aux trans with the cable attached to the aux trans.

I should probably find a frosty adult beverage and quit typing...

Hello Ed and 2ton46, I do appreciate your input. It is nearly dry enough that I can waller around under my truck to take a total measurement of the driveline and attach a few pictures of what I will be dealing with. The rubber mounting ideas are very well taken. The rear mount is certainly HUSKY! I will have to play with the speedo drive and see what I need to do. Watch for some more information.

While it is still frozen up, this morning, I crawled under the dump truck for measurements and a few pictures of the driveshaft. Refer to my link below for updated pictures. Now for measurements;
the aux box is 27" long, (center to center of u-joints)
truck front u-joint to midship u-joint 29" (center to center)
midship u-joint to rear axle u-joint 50" (center to center)
OTHER NOTES:
You will see the mounting of the hydraulic pump, I can move it closer to the frame rail to allow for more space for the aux box

Al,
If things get a little tight under there, one consideration might be an OD 5 speed trans, a NV-4500 comes with PTO access. That should you plenty of gears to get around with. I don't remember if you are going to upgrade to a 302 or not.

You must live in Pine Valley or Garrison.

Ed

Hello Ed,
You are close guessing where I live. I am surprised that you even know where Garrison is! Garrison is further west right on the Utah Nevada border. I am 85 miles east just off hi-way 6-50 (famous as the "Loneliest Hi-way in the US"). I am trolling to see if I can find a 302 or maybe a 270. At this point I am going to build with what I have and update the engine later. I have considered an NV-4500, but will try to stay with the original 4 speed if I can.

302's came in big

GMC trucks after '53 or so, some military trucks, some comm'l special trucks, saw one in a milk truck. Have been put in smaller trucks. Also Korean War 10 wheelers with a hydromatic trans.

Some military or big truck ones have a 14" clutch, big bellhousing that is awkward to use, so, if you come across a smaller one(270 for example) get the flywheel and bellhousing for a 12" clutch. A GM HEI distributor for a 230-250-292 GM(Chevy) and even fire V6 will work in 270-302 engines,
.
I guess you know the SN starts with the displacement, I.e. 302xxxx, stamped # on casting behind starter.

Ed

2ton46, I have sent you a PM.

I scouted out the reference for the Summit Anchor Ind. No. 2009 rubber mounts. They look to be perfect for this installation application of Brownie in my truck. I measured the aux. trans. rear mounting bolts at 3/4" and the front bolts to be 1/2". 2ton46, will these motor mount cushions allow for drilling out to fit the 3/4" bolts?

Anchor sells lots and lots of types of mounts, and Lord is another mount company. Look and see in both of their catalogs, should be able to find a mount to use without modification.

My Spicer 6041 was also mounted with rubber in 4 places. One mount is wide to resist torque, but still rubber at the ends. I can't link a picture right now but have a look in my signature in the 3-53T Detroit folder.

Also, have you measured height when installed? Looking at my 6000'series Spicer and my 51 GMC it pretty much has to be mounted just behind the cab so it can be high enough to not drag the ground. Under the cab close to the main trans Is where I wanted it but don't see how it would fit there.

The No. 2009 biscuits have a 5/8" hole, so it probably wouldn't be impossible to drill them out to 3/4". No idea though whats inside of them if there is any structure that would be compromised by the hole getting bigger. I dug through my album and found a few more pics to put on the shared album below, take a look and see if any of it helps. Have not remembered to crawl under when I was with the truck. Possibly next weekend I can, hoping to replace the manifold gaskets if they arrive in time. Seems as though I can't make a set of those gaskets last, they always seem to rust and get blown out.

Grigg is correct, the height comes into play pretty quickly being between the axles...Not much point in having it if it hangs up on everything you attempt to drive over.

2ton46 & Grigg, Thanks so much for your taking time to add the pictures of your Brownie installations. In fact, they are most helpful. I do now understand where you used the sleeve material and how. I also see how you sandwiched the aux. trans. mounts with rubber on both sides. Your reference to the front bracket being close to the back of your cab may, infact, be close to what I will end up with also. I just measured the original front driveshaft, which would be from the main box output to the aux. box input and it is about 10". I will use that length as a target for my install. If I keep the aux trans forward the depth of the trans will not be as big of an issue either. I also measured the depth of my aux. box from the center of the input shaft to the bottom of the box to be about 9". With all the clutter, I will be dealing with, I am rethinking my potential brake updates. I may yet stick with the original master cylinder and hydrovac just as a means to keep things out of the way. I will also check with the mount company Lord and see what is available.

Here is another couple of questions about Brownie boxes.
1- Do the typical 3 speed Brownie boxes have a neutral position or no? (I assume that they will always be in "a gear")
2- Why would my aux. box have a configuration for a lock-out on the shifter? (I just can't venture a guess and have not had the shifter open yet to see what the factory was trying to control)

Yes, there is normally a neutral position with many aux boxes, however some of the 2 speed units don't have one. I've not seen a 3 or 4 speed aux without a neutral. There are usually lockouts to prevent the selection of 2 speeds at the same time as there are 2 separate shift rods that are manipulated external to the transmission case.

Additionally the lockout on the shifter itself could be due to the ratios available in the box, if one ratio is pretty big like 2.0:1 and the rest are close like 1.2:1 it may have been used to lock out the deep ratio while on the road?

UPDATE:
I have added some new pictures, to my signature photo link, of the new/old "Brownie" aux trans. I still do not have a clue as to what the true MFG of the box would be. The number located on the top cover plate is a nice clean 4 digit number rather similar to what nomenclature Spicer used. Is it possible that this box could simply be an older model Spicer, Brown and Lipe or Watson? Take a look at the pictures and let me know what you think. Does anyone visit this forum from the Antique Truck Club? Maybe someone from that group will have specific information that can help to ID the aux box.

Has anyone used something like a Hurst shifter to operate a Brownie? I've got several of them, both 3 and 4 speed types, and it seems that if the right leverage and fore-aft movement of the shift rods is set up, it would be a good thing to use on the 5X3 setup I'm planning for my American LaFrance fire truck.
Jerry

Hello Jerry,
Your thought of using a Hurst floor shifter is a very good idea. Hurst was probably the best quality after market floor shifter when they came out in the '60s. If I didn't have an original shifter, for my "Brownie", I would actually consider using a spare Hurst 4 speed shifter I have out in the barn. One thing to consider, and you probably have, is the amount of leverage needed to shift the "Brownie" as compared to a Muncie or T-10 4 speed. If the Hurst is in good condition and with good bushings you could alter the length of the control arms as needed to get the shift lever throw you desire for the handle. I certainly think you have a very good idea with the Hurst. What American-LaFrance do you have? What engine? Off subject, but I have a couple of Alf's from the teens waiting for some time, after the GMC has some attention!

Jerry, I'm using a 3 speed hurst to shift the spicer 5831 in my truck. It seems to be holding up ok. It didn't require any modifications other than I reshaped the handle to make it easier to reach and avoid obstacles. The one I used was listed for truck applications, I'm not sure if there are any differences from the car models except for the handle. Shift effort is not bad, but is probably a little higher than your average light truck. When first installed it seemed like it was going to be rough but after driving for a while everything settled in and it's gotten easier. Much like the OEM shifters, it likes to be shifted in a straight line. It's possible to jump the gate if you put too much pressure to the side while trying to shift. Then the detention in the transmission might jump back into gear and your now stuck in that gear as the shift lever is in the wrong gate. Easy fix, but you have to crawl under and move the linkages to neutral. I've had it happen twice, once when I was adjusting the linkages, and once when a cousin was attempting to drive and was trying to shift diagonally through the H pattern. There are a few pictures of it in my gallery.

Hello 2ton46, Is your 5831 Spicer identified only by the tag? Or do you have other casting numbers that call for your trans.?

I'm not aware of a reference to the casting numbers, And the tag on mine is just an advertisement for a rebuilder. I identified it by dimensions, shape, and gear ratios. It's actually a 5831C.