The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest Challenge to Grigger or any other machinist---

who might look in on the forum. Being able to make or
modifying parts while restoring an old truck is a definite
asset and that's the driving force behind my gathering and
restoring some of these old machine tools.
I've been working on putting my old Ladge & Shipley 16"
lathe back in service. I've got the change gears, which were
missing their pilot bushings all back in place now and have
been working on the motor drive.
But....I got one more thing that has to be done to the new
pilot bushings, that is, I need to get the figure-eight oil
grooves in the three new pilot bushings:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/162399074
I read an old thread from another site on grooving machines
and read a Popular Mechanics "how to convert an old lathe
to be used as a groover", but the only "old" lathe that
I've got in the barn that I would be willing to sacrifice
is a tiny toy of a lathe, an AA109 that a guy threw out and
I dragged home. "Don't throw it away, give it to Graham."
I'm sure that even if I went to the trouble of rigging up
the crank and linkage that, that toy lathe would never hold
up to putting a groove in a cast bushing, besides, it's
missing almost all of the change gears, the spindle and
the planetary back gear, so it isn't even much of a toy
lathe to begin with.

So, I'm sure I know the answer already.....but I figure it
never hurts to ask....any simple solutions in mind, or how'd
you do it? I'd sleep better if I could make a controlled
grove in them, but for only three pieces, a Dremel with
a burr will probably be the simplest way, after all, it's
only a path for oil and who's gonna see it, right...cringe!

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Denny
I used to make bronze bushings for punch presses we would rebuild.
An "H" pattern for the oil/grease grooves.
Cut a groove on each end of the bushing, then turn your tool horizontal and brooch between the groove using the carriage by hand. Also make sure to put the chuck in a low gear to prevent any chuck rotation during the brooching.
I usually put three or four horizontal groves between the circular grooves.

Hope this makes sense and helps.

Don

External oil groove? Today that would be done on a CNC machine with a rotary fixture also being controlled.

You can do almost as nice a job with your Bridgeport, a ball endmill, and a dividing head. (Or as perfect a job with change gears added in linking table travel and dividing head rotation) Forget about the change gears as you probably don't have them...
Back to the basics I'd probably stop short of figuring out the math for table position and angular rotation at regular steps. (Though not confusing if you want to)
Instead draw your pattern on there with a sharpie, possibly transferred from a paper template traced from the original. Then manually follow along both rotation and table travel. I'd cut it full depth in one pass so you don't have to trace more than once.

That would be a step between full CNC or fully geared manual setup and hand held dremel.

Grigg

Thinking back on what Grigg said about external grooves.
All the bronze bushings I made had internal oil grooves.
Just another thought, can they be modified to take sealed needle bearings?

Don

I think I would have used oilite bronze- - - -no need for a lube groove.
Jerry

Oh Jerry, you're just to practical. Restoration----The
original support bushings were cast and space and hold the
threading gears in their proper relationship. They were and
will continue to be..cast iron. I just need to duplicate the
original oil grooves as close as I can, not re engineer the
lathe. Besides, the cast iron pilots are already machined
and fit up.

Straight grooves would be simple to make Don, that's not the
problem. There already is one radially close to the flange.
I'm looking to make an external figure eight spiral groove
that leads in from the counter bore in the casting. All of
the old machines used this sort of a groove to pump oil to
the whole bearing surface. And again, rollers not needed
here, the machine ran for half a century without any
noticeable wear and I'd still use the original pilot
bushings if I had them, but...they were one of the
parts that were missing when I bought the lathe.

Of course a CNC Turning Center would be nice to have Grigg,
but....three pieces....you know....doesn't justify my looking
for a $60K machine for the shop. Not really gonna go to the
trouble of setting up the Bridgeport for three pieces, it's
not that critical. I'v about talked myself into just sitting
down by hand with the Dremel and cutting them in as close as
I can by hand.
dg

I wasn't advocating for the CNC approach.

I was trying to say you could very quickly and easily do a good approximation by hand so to speak with your Bridgeport.

Setup is as easy as plopping a dividing head on the table line it up straight by eye would be close enough. Chuck your part in it and have at it with a ball end mill.

Sorry I was not clear to start with. I thought by briefly outlining how it would be done properly you could see a compromise and a quick and easy way to do it "good enough".
Likely faster and more predictable than entirely by hand with the dremel.

Perhaps I misunderstood the question, were you looking for agreement only or asking for new ideas?

Oh I know you weren't suggesting that Grigg. I was just making
conversation, I have been known to be a bit of a smart ars at
times you know. I carved a few of these out on the Logan 825 10",
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/162311175
and the hand eye coordination on the Bridgeport for the
grooves probably wouldn't be much more challenging. Like you
suggested, pre-mark the path and just crank left and right,
somethin' like patting your head and belly at the same time.
Think I might take you up on that suggestion, thanks. And you
bet.....one pass only else that groove would look pretty bad.
Somethin' like the path of a drunken sailor.

dg

Denny G

Great picture Denny and I can tell the skill put into it.
But, and my eyes may be deceiving me, the print shows left handed threads and the part looks like it has right handed threads.
As my feeble mind remembers, Bridgeports handles were always right handed threads.

Don

Picky, picky, picky! Dint think anyone would notice, least I
dint. That's just a quickie working drawing Don, not meant to
be followed on a tracer or CNC or with any precision. Those
sort of things are more sculpture than anything else.

I did take Grigg's suggestion, only problem is I don't have a
dividing head, only a spin index and rotary table. Rotary is
not suited to this and I'm afraid the spin index is gonna do
just that, i.e., spin and snap off the ball end mill.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/162402641

But, it will have to wait till tomorrow cuz it's just to dang
cold out there in the barn and me feet and fingers have lost
feeling. Besides, it's supper time and I don't want to ruin
my supper by screwin' up my part.
Thanks Grigg for the idea.

dg

Ive used a super spacer at times for similar jobs where a dividing head was the real answer.
Put a long handle on it so you can control it well. On the super spacer I stick the long cross pin part of the chuck wrench in the square opening, results in a reasonable length lever.perhaps fab up a long handle for the spin index and take it slow.

Or use the spin indexer but don't rotate it while cutting. Set the quip depth stop and peck away at it rotating a little bit and locking it down each time but with the cutter out of the work. Might also help in following the line as you can adjust position before reaching final depth.

Grigg

I'm sittin' it out in the house tonight Grigg. It's situations
like this that make me look seriously at new equipment that I've
been wanting for the shop. Might just look into a small
dividing head. There have been many times in the past that I
could have used one but shelved the project for the lack of.
Been wanting to cut some custom gears but haven't wanted
to do them the hard way.
Might be the right time to look into it.

dg

Okey dokey Grigg. Took your suggestion and ran with it.
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/162416099
A little wobbly but good enough for an oil groove.
Thanks for the idea.

dg

Very nice!
Glad it worked out,

Grigg

Looks good Denny.
Faster and cleaner than a dremel.

My Dad always said.
"A good machinist is a little bit lazy, cause he will find an easier to do something and 90% of the time, it's faster and cheaper".

Don

I don't claim to be a machinist Don, just been crankin' on
handles when ever I had the chance since I was a toddler. More
of a machine operator. But I do have to admit to being a
little bit lazy, I usually look for the easy way out. Never
made much sense to look for the hard way of doing something
if there was an easy way.

Dang it though, I still want to put a dividing head in the
cabinet, now I'm gonna have to look for another reason to
get one. The bargain basement, spin indexer worked ok, but
with a one to one turn ratio the spiral is nothing to
brag about. Really hard to keep up with it cranking on
the X-axis.

Some people may wonder what a machine tool discussion is
doing on the Stovebolt forum, but....restoring a machine
tool, i.e., a big old lathe in this case, will enable me to
make those 1 3/4" and 1 7/8" tube bender dies for my tube
bender so I can make my own custom exhaust bends for the
trucks, so that's the "connection". Now what happened to
that easy way bit??????

tanks guys,
Denny G

Denny
That quote can be used in about any type of craft/trade.
Always find an easier way to do something.

Don