The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 216 oil filter

I am near the end of my first 216 rebuild and was checking oil flow to the oil filter. I used a drill to operate the pump and the flow seems good but flows in through both inlet and outlet and the oil never drained back to the engine.
Does the oil canister have to be sealed for the drain to function? The inlet is attached to the oil pressure port and the return is attached to the oil distributor.

The center standpipe has a 1/16" hole about 2/3 of the way to the top of the filter housing that acts as a flow restrictor and prevents the filter housing from draining completely. It also prevents oil pressure loss through the filter as it drains back into the pan. No oil should come from the bottom drain fitting until the filter fills to the level of the orfice, and the lid should be clamped on tightly to prevent the oil from overflowing over the top. The line from the oil pressure port should be attached to the side port of the filter, and the drain hose from the bottom goes back into the block just above the oil pan rail. The oil distributor is not involved in the filter circuit.
Jerry

JackieC,

You do not indicate the year of your 216, but the oil filter holes on the block are probably in the same location for all/most years.

Here is an 1940-1947 installation sheet that is listed in the Stovebolt.com The Great Oil Filter Debate Tech Tip.

The odd thing about 216's is the "drain hose" actually is plumbed into the pressure galley that supplies oil to the dipper nozzles.
Oil almost never flows through the filter except at an idle when dipper nozzles bleed off the pressure at that area.
The fact is an oil filter on a 216 almost does nothing but look good.

Sorry the engine is a 1950 216

The drain is going to the oil distributor opposite the the copper tube that goes to the rocker arm rail....I have not found a picture that resembles what I see on this engine.
If the canister has oil in it above the holes in the stand pipe should it drain back to where it is even with the holes when it is not running? It is on a stand right now.

I've got a few 216's stashed away, one that I know is a 1950, also a 1953, and another that's a 46. I'll see if I can take some pics and email them to you tomorrow. The engines with the drain back to the crankcase will gravity-flow to the orfice hole when stopped, not sure about the others!
Jerry

The installation sheet I linked-to above shows the "normal" holes for the GM by-pass oil filter.

The connection of a by-pass oil filter into the port on the head that goes to the rocker-arm rail is a common "work-around" but not described/sold by GM.

Here is the installation instruction for that "Rocker Arm Oiler Kit" line into the head. People also used that kit on high-pressure 235/261 engines - I think in attempt to get oil to the rocker arms when the internal oil lines were partially blocked.

I'm going to take a look at it in the morning, I have seen some photos where there is a plug a few inches below the oil distributor (no filter installed ) is that likely the drain port?

My guess is "yes". But I'd have to see a photo of what you are referring-to to be certain.

Maybe someone can confirm the return line from the filter on a low-pressure engine goes into the port below-left of the oil distributor in this illustration ?

Drain Port

The drain port just below the distributor?

This is not my engine just for reference.

That looks like the port I referred-to in my oil distributor link above.
That is the oil-filter return line/port I would use.

Maybe someone with one in operation will confirm/correct.

That looks like it's the only option available, unless you drill and tap into the crankcase with a 1/8" pipe port just above the pan rail. Lots of room to do that, but you might get tarred ands feathered by the purists!
Jerry

That doesn't sound fun at all!! I don't look good in feathers!!

Last resort will be to just plug up the holes, take the filter off, stash it somewhere safe and change the oil more often.

That is what I do to all of my customers filters.

Ok, The drain line DOES NOT go into the distributor.......
It goes into the block very near the distributor though.
I filled the canister with water just to see if it would drain- it does drain- VERY slowly I suppose it drains better when the canister is sealed and pressurized?

Yes, it drains better with oil pressure in the canister, and I just confirmed that the filter drain fitting does intersect the output of the oil distributor on a 216 or an early 235 as it heads for the dipper spray tubes. That will slow down the flow a little because there will be some back pressure against the drain. A very simple method to get better flow through the filter without any permanent modification to the block would be to braze a 1/8" pipe coupling into the side of the oil pan about 1" below the pan rail and attach the drain line there. This would accomplish the same oil flow as a bypass filter on a 235, which does drain directly back to the pan. The orfice in the filter standpipe would control the flow regardless of the diameter of the flex hose or the fitting added to the pan. Then the purists won't break out in a terminal case of hives for desecrating a piece of 70-year-old cast iron! LOL!

Fitting a full-circle rear main bearing lip seal at the back of the block will really get the oldtimers in a phase 10 panic! I can do that with my cylinder boring bar, and the rear main seal for a Ford Diesel V8 is an exact fit!
Jerry

So you have one line to the normal "outflow" port on the block, and another line to the head.

If that is correct, you are getting inflow from the head?

The drain is connected to the port right below the oil distributor and The inlet hose is connected to the oil pressure port in the block.

OK - good (sorry about my confusion)

If the by-pass canister oil filter was really needed, wouldn't you think that GM would have installed it on the assembly line?
Was its development anything more than a cash cow for the car dealerships?
As long as the rubber lines don't fail (and many did, BTW), its design did not adversely affect the operation of the engine, since it was not operational most of the time (as stated by Dave, above).
Carl

If the oil in your cannister is 100% clear with no residue in it, then it was a waste of time to install. The problem is not the engine, it's the environment. With slits in the valve cover, the first thing to get plugged up due to excessive muck is the hollow rocker assembly tube. No oil to the top end is the result. If the filter staves that eventuality off a while, it is worth having. This is a common reason for engine failure on these engines.

That coupled with no PCV below 30mph and the crankcase gasses are mixing with the oil causing damage and adding even more muck into the system. It was a poor design but part of the evolution process GM went through and since these are our target engines and the love of our lives, we do not think of them that way.

The only reason I do not disagree with the above posts is because a really dirty oil filter system can be the worst possible scenario being a Dirt Dispenser, a gift that keeps on giving if you do not change out the filter and clean the canister at timely intervals. Also, the idea of filtering 12% of the oil, with no guarantee all of the oil will ever be sent through the bypass IS to my way of thinking an option as opposed to a necessity.

Thankfully, the next generation went to full flow filtering and PCV. The upper assembly will be clear forever as a result. It's all about the evolution process. You can see a similar path if you study Ford or anyone else.

If manufacturers were really interested in doing a good job of filtering oil, they would use the system that Cummins, Detroit, Catepillar, and just about every other heavy duty Diesel manufacturer has used for over 50 years- - - -two filters. The full flow filter is for straining out rocks, marbles, bowling balls, and other big stuff that can compromise the lubricating film between the crankshaft and the bearings, stuff that's bigger than the clearance specification. Then there needs to be a bypass filter with media fine enough to strain out the tiny particles that get through the primary filter. There is no way to flow enough volume through a good bypass filter to meet the engine's lubrication requirements. The filter I sold and installed on heavy duty Diesels for years was the Frantz system, the one that used tissue paper as a filter medium. It strained out particles down to 2 microns, approximately 50 times as efficient as a full flow filter. It also took several minutes for one gallon of oil to flow through a canister the size of a LuberFiner 750- - - -6" in diameter and 16" tall. Obviously, a free-flowing primary filter was needed to catch the big chunks and protect the bearings, but a full flow filter is a whiz-poor method of actually doing any efficient filtering of the oil.

http://www.frantzfilters.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/96-percent.jpg

Jerry

Good info.
re. pressure to the filter. I know one time when I changed the element on my 216's bypass filter and didn't get the top tightened down enough, oil was squirting everywhere until I cranked it tight.

After shutdown it takes up to 20 minutes for the filter to drain down. I have to wait that long in order to get an accurate reading on the dipstick.

I often wonder if I could gain a psi or 2 by just removing the filter and capping the ports off....

Dave

Do ya ask first? LOL

I just have trusting customers

Some will think I'm playing Devil's advocate. Not here to argue, only lending my experience. Professional since 1952, still building some rare and very expensive engines. I don't put filters on them. Most cause more trouble than they supposedly protect. The exception: Some engs must have them due to originality and plumbing. My question is: Just what are you filtering? A scrupulously clean rebuilt engine has nothing to filter. Should some component wears or fails, the engine must come apart anyway. Have tested oil distribution w/ multiple block taps at different temps which has shown how poorly some areas of engs actually receive oil. Poor fuel combustion creating diluted oil isn't going to be helped w/ a filter. A properly designed PCV is your best friend. Light weight, modern multi vis oil w/ a good ZDDP additive such as EOS will ensure an engine's long life. Happy New Year

Dave
PM sent
Thanks Doug

I have watched differential pressure rise on every engine I have worked on that actually has a differential pressure gauge installed. (meaning the filters are getting plugged by something, only rarely is it any thing you can actually see) Granted most of these were at the smallest, 1200 horsepower Cat V-16's to (the biggest have worked on) 7500 horsepower enterprise V-16's. After 35 years in the field I would not run an engine (or any machinery for that matter) without a filter, I would not remove one in any case. If your engine is so scrupulously clean, why does the oil get black?

blank

Mr, Broken head,
I agree filters are economically necessary in your field as in the marine world. I would presume the oil gets black because your working w/ Diesels only. That black's been normal for a hundred years. Probably modern engineering will curb that. I've not dealt w/ Diesels for years now. The rings are asked to do more than they can handle, including cavitation. Efficient injector pressures and spray patterns, correct Pump timing are crucial. Operators often have no clue how to operate/run a Diesel, also. Here, I believe the subject was gasoline powered 216-235 types. There's no reason for one of these to get black oil in 2-3000 miles of normal use. Yes,poorly coordinated engine mods, unusual driving habits,etc will affect the oil's condition. Black is a serious indicator of fuel contamination.
Just for fun: Chev did offer spark Diesel 216s? late ''30s called Hesselmann.
David

" Chev did offer spark Diesel 216s? late ''30s called Hesselmann"

Were the Jonas Hesselman petrol/diesel engines sold in GM USA vehicles?

I believe those were only available in Scandinavia I've some GM/ Chev sales pamphlets from those years w/ pics and some specs. David

re. diesel black oil. To add to Davids info, in a diesel soot is a major by product of combustion and the collection of it is the primary cause of the oil turning black in a diesel. The oil has additives in it to keep it suspended as opposed to allowing it to collect on the internals. Std diesel oil filters will not remove all of it so new oil will blacken soon after use. My 3 cyl Tier 3 Kubota diesel will blacken new oil within a couple hrs of use and has since it was new.

re.216, I estimate the bottom end of my 49 216 to have 113K miles on it and it has had a bypass filter on it since new. I know this as i have a copy of the original invoice and it was added as a $10.85 + $4 in labor dealer option.
New oil will blacken within a couple hrs of use on it. I believe it's due to it being run with non detergent oil for most of it's life and I've been running detergent oil it for the last 13K miles. The blowby/byproducts have collected on all the internals and the detergent oil is cleaning off what it can. The bypass oil filter doesn't seem to effect the blackening of the oil in any manner.

David, I don't think you will find any engine that doesn't turn the oil black in 2,000-3,000 miles, even my brand new 2016 car with modern fuel injection did, I mean the first 2,000 miles out of the factory. Most definitely these engines, with such crude fuel delivery systems will blacken the oil in 2,000 miles. As it does on my truck with a brand new rebuild, it was scrupulously clean as well. Actually the subject was whether or not oil filters actually remove anything, which is where the matter of large diesel engines came up, simply because no one bothers to install a differential pressure gauge on their automobile, whereas large diesel engines commonly install them. Making it easy to see that the filters are genuinely removing something. (that was the point I was trying to make) However I don't know what would happen if you were to install one one a car. And as a real Delta P gauge is really expensive, (and I still don't know why they cost so much) I probably never will.

Even a 2 micron Frantz bypass filter will not remove the black color from oil from a Diesel engine. The PM procedure on the engines I serviced included a filter element change at 15K mile intervals, top off the oil level with about 1 1/2 gallons in a 15-gallon system, and never change the main sump oil. Analysis of oil samples was done by an independent lab at every filter change, and even after 100K miles on the oil, it was still passing accepted standards for contaminant levels. The owners of the fleet were suitably impressed with their cost savings for PM service.
Jerry

Closing the slits in the valve cover and installing a PCV system is really one of the best things you can do to keep contaminants out of the oil, then something that filters 12% of the oil (bypass) might make sense as insurance.

The problem with our motors isn't the design as much as it is the design. What I mean by that is slits in the valve cover in this part of the country is insane. Even paved roads have a large amount of sand, topsoil, etc and all of that is being sucked into the engine at road speeds. With the high winds we get on a daily basis, there is dust in the air all the time. Where does all that crud go? Some of it stays in the top end and fills the rocker tube assembly with dirt along with the rest of the passages. Nevermind what it is doing to the cylinder walls.

How many questions do we get asked here about how to clean out oil passages, or why there is no oil going to the rockers, or why a push rod is bent. Every engine I have taken to the machine shop has had a mostly closed internal rocker tube passage. Maybe its just Kansas, but that is how it is here.

This is not a "FOR" or "AGAINST" oil filter post. It's a You do the Math and decide for yourself post. Closing the system as much as possible and installing PCV is just a good idea. And if you want to do it for much less, order the parts and do it yourself:

http://devestechnet.com/Home/PCVInstall

Mr Broken head, It's just not been my 64 yrs of eng building experience to have the oil even discolor much in 2-3000 miles, let alone turn black in a proper gasoline engine. Engs of the past, yes, but they can be rebuilt using today's tech. As mentioned earlier,poorly tuned, short run driving, not up to block, head and oil temp for an hour or more, lots of cold starts and driver habits will cause the darkening. It's a clue that something's wrong with the picture that needs investigation. Years ago, maybe 40,a Chev service bulletin I read described that old low pressure, high volume Chev designed oiling system had operating conditions in mind. Dirt road dust in most of the country would get into engines. Combine that w/people wouldn't change oil very often and oil quality was as pumped from the ground. Not like today's oil at all. Chev didn't want the dirt forced into the working surfaces. The idea kept these engs running when many other small oil passage, high pressure types lost brgs and shafts. Last week I dismantled a 1963 Palmer marinized 308" IH. Everthing in it sparkled. Rocker arms, inside cover and pan looked as new. It was running the simple, canister, remote, small flow filter many seem to misname as bypass. That 308 would have been dirty by average thinking. She powered a fishing hull 48 yrs. Once fired in AM., it'd run all day. Best scenario.
Mr. Lincoln, the eng lube system maint you describe is popular w/ the fishing fleet w/ frequent sampling analysis. These are all Diesels. I don't like that procedure for gasoline engs because of the oils aromatics diminishing and oil thickening. The sump volumes are small and are affordable to dump when prudent. David

I'll agree w/ Mr Deve. The engs from Kansas that come to me here in Ma are caked inside and out w/ dirt. These are mostly 20s- 50s Chev sixes. Part of a pro rebuild should include a properly designed PCV system for maximum longevity. David