The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop She's Real Fine My 409!

Firts Merry Christmas to everyone! Ok, I just purchased a 52 5 Window with perfect patina. The body is rock solid but the 235 engine has a bad miss. I plan to get the miss corrected and drive it next year but during next winter I plan an engine change. I have a 409 that I have had for over 25 years covered in my garage that will need built. Having grown up in the 60's the hot rod trucks sported, if you had the money, a 283 or maybe a 327. Has anyone used any of these engine changes and if so are there any suggestions?
Rich

Any V8 in that chassis is going to have fitment problems, mostly involved with steering column/exhaust interference. Work-arounds involve offsetting the engine to the right, moving the steering gear to the left, or a total rehab of the front end for independent suspension. Some people install a Saginaw power steering gear ahead of the axle with a Rube Goldberg Pitman arm setup.

The 409 is wider and heavier than a small block engine, and hotrod parts are scarce and expensive. There's somewhat of a cool factor to the scalloped valve covers, but it comes at a hefty premium in difficulty of installation!
Jerry

Somehow in the 60's they cramed it all in there without changing the front suspension and without a ton of moving things around. Now I agree that front disc brakes and a change of the front suspension is the modern way to go but I just wanted to make it nostalgia. If takes a whole lot of chopping and cutting I may be best to hot rod the 235.

Putting a big block into a stock frame will require a whole lot of chopping and cutting. Your welding skills will be tested. You will learn the ins and outs of fabrication. Nothing fits easily. Money will be spent on updating and making things safe in the suspension and brake areas. When it is all done you will have a ground pounding monster capable of scaring the carp out of you.

There's a lot of "it can't be done" here. It shouldn't be that much of a challenge, if you want to do it that way go for it.

The whole "nostalgia" AKA "rat rod" craze is putting a lot of poorly engineered and sometimes deadly dangerous junk on the road. After 30-something years of dealing with high school auto mechanics students who suddenly became skilled hotrod fabricators (in their wet dreams) after reading three whole copies of Hot Rod Magazine (looking at the pictures- - -they had about a 5th. grade reading level) I came up with a shop policy: "We're going to make it steer and stop safely before the first bit of wrenching on the engine gets done!"

I probably saved a few lives that way! An average of one student every two years managed to kill himself, regardless of my efforts, but that included getting shot while robbing the undercover cop posing as a pizza delivery guy, "car surfing" and breaking his neck when he hit a curb at 30 MPH, and a few drug overdoses.

Jerry

Hotrod Lincoln,
Thanks for the reply's. I don't think the nostalgia days of the 60's compare to the newest rat rod fad. We did a lot of crazy things in those days but we were always aware of the safety thing. No power steering, power brakes, none of the creature comforts we have today but we drag raced every night! Drugs were not on the scene, robbing stores was not even thought of, and car surfing was not even known at that time. When we came across a faster car we went home and tinkered and went out again. We were not wealthy so we made do with what we had. Some guys stuffed V8's in small spaces, changed exhausts like you change clothes, sported glass packs etc. Thanks for watching over today's youths!

Woj,
They also said, we couldn't land on the moon!!

I wanted a nostalgia build and something different, so I put a 348 in my '48. Here is a link to my build http://67-72chevytrucks.com/vboard/showthread.php?t=592642

It was easy and no cutting was required to the frame or inner wheel wells. I would recommend trying that forum and starting a build thread. I would enjoy following along on your build. The only problem I had was due to setting the motor too far forward and it interfered with the radiator. I just moved the rad forward and am combining a Chevy rad support with a GMC to remedy it.

Here is a good site for additional 409 info. http://www.348-409.com/forum/

Woj, I played the hotrod game in the 60's too, and I suppose we were a little more safety-conscious back then, but not a lot. One primer-black 1950 Ford coupe with a J-2 Olds engine in it I remember used to terrorize the streets in east Nashville, and the owner always carried an extra set of universal joints in the glove box. He could usually get home- - -once he found the driveshaft in somebody's front yard! his main competition was an Austin-Healey 3000 with a big Pontiac engine shoehorned into it! My slightly-rodded 47 Ford business coupe with the 239 cubic inch flathead V8 just wasn't in the same league as those guys, but I did outrun every stovebolt six I ever encountered!
Jerry

My '55 2nd 3100 has a 400 Pontiac with Muncie 4 speed trans. Stock suspension and steering. The engine fits good between the frame rails and clears steering box with stock exhaust manifolds. Newly fabricated front crossmember mount for mid block motor mounts and a fabricated rear crossmember at tailshaft of trans. Runs great, with Edelbrock performer carb and mild cam. Lots of low end torque, and gets with the program when I push the loud pedal. The Pontiac V8s use a "mid size" block all the way up thu 455 cu in. The exhaust manifolds bolt on the heads differently than a small block Chev, as the exhaust ports are pointed down rather than to the sides.

How about some positive reinforcement for the OP's project?.... The pics for the this are in the links below - It may of had a GM clip - can't remember, but (aside from what your style in cosmetics is)it was well thought out mechanically and went down the road just fine. Not the first 348/409 I've seen in an AD I've seen that worked well....

[IMG]http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/riverwork/Public%20stuff/Rosners/Rosner-2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e22/riverwork/Public%20stuff/Rosners/Rosner-1.jpg[/IMG]

?

Your truck. Your build. Make it safe(good brakes, and good steering). Follow the tips on the suspension very closely. Put a big block in it if you want. You will get to do a lot of cut, fit, and change as you go. 409 is pretty, and not too many around. So get ready to spend some time and money. Inline 6 weighs around 650 pounds. The 409 weighs about 650 pounds. The difference from 130 house power to 400 should make you stop and think...Brakes! Steering! Enjoy, and post some pictures.

We put a 503, a 409 with a 454 crank, into a 37 Chevy business coupe with no frame clearance problems except for exhaust manifold outlet on passenger side. I wanted to change the outlet angle and keep the iron manifolds but got out voted so it has &@*% headers. Body wise it got a recessed firewall but would have fit with factory one---just easier with more working room.

http://s32.photobucket.com/user/coilover/media/051.jpg.html
http://s32.photobucket.com/user/coilover/media/050.jpg.html

Any Progress? If you can add a small block 348/409 are only a tiny bit larger and only about 100lb heavier.