The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1961 chevy apache 235

I have a 235 straight six. When I bought the truck it had a lot of chatter. So I pulled the head and had it rebuilt and replaced all the pushrods. 6 of them where bent. Bolted all of it back together and I can't get the truck to start. It does have a different carb(no manuel choke) replaced points and condenser, cap, plugs and wires. It does get spark and occaissonal back fire but still won't start.I was wondering if the timing could be out or is it possibly in the carb.

Just some advise for the future,
Take it one step at a time.

I'm new to 235s' also and have learned a lot from all the great members hear.
I don’t move on or change anything until the first problem is fixed. That way I don’t end up in a sea of problems with multiple fixes and multiple symptoms.

Billy

Amt31,

Just as Hamonthebone said above, you should focus your troubleshooting on the things you replaced or repaired. It sounds as if you might want to check your new plug wires and make sure that they are attached to the cap in the correct 1-5-3-6-2-4 firing order. If they are out of order the ignition timing will be off and you will get random backfiring and no start as you described. The easiest way to make sure that they are correctly installed is to work your way around the distributor cap in a clockwise direction and tracing each wire from the distributor cap to each spark plug.

Start at the wire leading to to the cylinder number 1 plug (the plug for number one is at the front of the engine / the cylinders are numbered one to six from front to back) and continue tracing the wires from plug to cap in a clockwise direction around the cap. The next wire in your clockwise trip around the distributor cap should lead to cylinder #5, the next one should lead to #3, the next one to #6, the next to #2 and the next one to #4. After #4 you should be back to #1 and have completed a igniton firing order.

If the wires are in their correct positions and you did not remove the distributor the ignition timing ios most likely ok and you can move onto other things that can cause a no start such as insufficient valve clearance causing a loss of compression, a faulty carb and/or some other fault. The new carb shouldn't cause a no start problem unless it is not correct for your application and/or is in dire need of a rebuild. What kind of carb did you replace the manual choke carb with?

Sorry for the long post and welcome to the bolt. I hope you get her running.

I learned that lesson the hard way. I was working on an Allis-Chalmers WD-45 and gave it a tune and rebuilt the carb at the same time. When I was done, it wouldn't start. I had 2 systems I had to check out instead of only 1 if I had done it in steps.

Anyway, in my opinion, not being there to check it out, it sounds like it could be timing.

I replaced the carb with a rochester rp it has a vacume choke. The distributor cab and wires where removed by my brother and he didn't mark anything, I've set the valves according to the instruction on this page.

These are all good sugestions. Are you getting gas in the carb? Did you try priming it. If you can,t get it started with this help I will come get it started. I,m about 30-40 miles from Pleasanton. George

George I have primed the carb and the fuel pump. It is pumping gas and I get gas in some of the cylinders but not all.

amt31,

Since your brother didn't mark the wires, I would start with the plug wires. The igntion timing is most likely off and the engine will not run until the timing is set correctly. In my earlier post I tried to give you some help in checking the wires. Provided that the distributor was not removed it should be fairly easy to correct the problem with the plug wires. However, since all of the wires were removed and not marked you are first going have to get the #1 cylinder on top dead center. When cylinder 1 is at top dead center the distributor rotor will be directly under one of the six spark plug terminals on the cap. This terminal will be the terminal for the #1 cylinder and the wire leaving this terminal is connected to the spark plug on the #1 cylinder.After you have got the plug wire for number one leading from its terminal on the distributor cap to the spark plug for cylinder number 1, the rest of the plug wires can be installed. Just keep the firing order and clockwise rotation of the distributor in mind when you wire 'em up

The following post will give you some additional help with setting the timing on your engine.

http://www.stovebolt.com/bboard/cgi-bin//ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=003622#000003

.

Good Luck

I did bring No1 cyl up to fire and aligned the dot on the flywheel. Put the plug wires in order from there. When reversed it did back fire through the carb. So I put them back again. I have set the valves twice. thank you for the tips.

One other thing to check is the valve lash. I've set them too tight and when the motor cranked over, it would just spin because the valves were being held open. As a result, there was no compression and no firing. It would backfire occasionally when trying to start it.

I'd make sure the plug wires were correct, and if it still doesn't start, recheck the valve lash.

I thought I set'em to tight the first time so I loosened'em up and tried still the same so I reset them again. What method are you using to set the valve lash?

Here is an annoying thing that happened to me.
I bought the truck from a towing yard (they said it ran when they towed it)
I was getting gas and a spark (i like that name) but it wouldn’t run.

Come to find out some one wired the coil directly to the ignition to starter wire.

This is a problem I just had: I reassembled a 4 cyl tractor engine, had checked the fireing order over three times so I "knew" it was correct. Trouble is that the rotor was going different from the way I thought. I was lucky the engine started and ran on cyl 1 and 4. That gave me the chance to switch the 2,3 wire, and the engine ran fine.

Hey Amp31. Have you got it started yet? Update us & if nessesary I,ll come out there. George

No I haven't got it started yet, plan on working on it this weekend if its nice. Unfortunaley no room in garage. Was digging around and found a carb with manual choke off a 216. Just need to swap lower plate. Hope this gives me gas to the cylinders. Got to checking and the wiring has been changed it used to be a 6 volt generator been converted to 12 volt alternator so I need to check out all the wiring under the hood. Hate trying to figure out other peoples work. Thank you for the offer wrenchbender I'll keep you all posted on the progress.

Alright finally a beatiful day, started taking the 216 rochester apart to transfer lower plate, the vacume choked rochester was missing the little arm that runs the accelerator, go figure a $20 salvage yard carb missing parts ha,ha, that never happens. Waiting on rebuild kit and am going to try it again. Hopefully fingures crossed it'll start. Thank you everyone on the advice and tips this is a really excellent site.
Wish me luck.

Ok different carb on and its still won't fire off.It will back fire, so I rotated all the plug wires all the way around the cap still no luck. Could timing have jumped? How do you set the timing on a 235? Probaly should invest in a manual just short on funds right now.

Check the firing order again. I made this mistake a while back. Drove me nuts, and everybody else who was trying to help me. The backfire is the giveaway.

amt31,

On the bellhousing immediately above the starter you will see a hole. In this hole you will see a pointer. This pointer is used to set the timing with the BB shaped ball on the flywheel. When the pointer is pointing to the BB on the flywheel and #1 cylinder is at top dead center on its compression stroke the timing is close enough to get the engine running.

I watch the valve rocker arms in order to get the engine TDC and firing. In other words, I remove the valve cover and watch the movement of the rocker arms in order to determine when # 1 is at top dead center and on its compression stroke.I accomplish this by turning the engine over by hand and watching the intake rocker for #1 (the second rocker from the front on the head) until it just closes the valve and then continue turning the engine over with my finger over the plug hole for #1 until I no longer feel air trying to escape from the cylinder. At this point, I remove my finger from the plug hole and keep turning the engine over by hand until the pointer in the hole on the bellhousing aligns with the bb shaped ball on the flywheel. When the ball lines up with the pointer, #1 is at top dead center and in the firing position.

When the ball and the pointer are lined up I remove the distributor cap and look at the points. If the they have just started to break, the timing is close enough to get the engine running. If they have not, you will have to loosen the screw that goes through the clamp on the distributor and rotate the distributor a little bit until the points just break. This screw and clamp are located where the distributor shaft inserts into the block. After the points are adjusted to just break tighten the screw on the distributor clamp so the distributor won't spin out of time when you try to start the engine.

At this point the rotor will be immediately under the terminal in the cap for the #1 cylinder and you can re-check your plug wires. The easiest way to do this is to start at the plug wire for #1 and work your way around the distributor cap in a clockwise direction. The wire after #1 should lead to #5, the wire after #5 should lead to #3, The wire after #3 should lead to #6. the wire after #6 should lead to #2, the wire after #2 should lead to #4 and the wire after #4 should lead to #1 and you will have completed yor clockwise plug wire chasing journey around the distributor cap.

After you get it running final adjustments can be made with a timing light by re-loosening the distributor clamp and rotating the dizzy until the pointer aligns with the bb shaped ball on the flywheel and/or by vacuum gauge by rotating the dizzy until the highest vacuum level shows on the gauge.

I hope this helps. Good luck getting her going.