The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Smoke

the crack is along the driver's side and seems to run nearly the length of the block.

Understood. I was fairly certain I did not remember hearing anything about the crack in the block until Fri/Sat. I definitely know I haven't read anything about seepage...

Hard luck story. Option 2 is good. But- this is your call now. I'll speak for myself & not the group here, but I like the 235/261 route for your truck.

Brad

Yeah, that's when I found out... and felt like a total dufus for not seeing it before all that work. It's just one of those things where I didn't see it until I saw it

A can of Barsleak will slow down or stop the leak.
If you are using a 4# radiator cap, any excess pressure, when the engine is hot, will escape there and not put serious pressure on your sealed water jacket leak.
Been there, done that 20,000 miles ago.
Carl

Sounds like a reasonable andv possible cheap solution. My question is still about understanding why a leak on the outside of the motor affects what's going on inside the cylinders. I would think the crack must also be in the cylinders... In which case, do you think this would still work?

There is a big void between the outside of the block and the cylinder walls. The cylinders aren't affected by the crack.

Then why is the crack causing smoking?

1. What is coolant level like- right now?
2. Have you changed the oil since this:
edit- I don't mean that you need to change the oil, but it would be good to know if any more water was in there.
3. Have you ran the engine at all since the new rings were installed?

Brad

The level seems to be full. The crack leaks out just a few beads of water. I changed the oil before firing up with the new rings, which is when I found the crack. I checked the dipstick to see if the oil looked milky, but it looked normal. Granted, it only ran for about 2 minutes before it began smoking quite severely.

Heard back from the shop in Kerrville. They have rebuilt 235s for $2300-$2500 and one that they took out of a '58 truck, running and complete minus the dizzy, for $1200. Thinking I could get a couple hundred parting my 235 (head is good, oil pan is ok, oil bath cleaner, manifilds, crank, cam, etc), this sounds like an attractive offer.

Correction: the engine is $1000

Are they offering up any kind of a warranty with that $1000 engine? I would at least ask, or request they look through it & inspect it for that amount of money. It doesn't hurt to ask... It also doesn't hurt to drive up there with $600 to offer & see if they'll take your parts for the rest of their asking price.

Their price on the "rebuilt" 235s are good/fair prices if they are guaranteed/warrantied and are 100% full rebuilds.

Brad

WOW... I just pulled up a map for the first time to see where you were... There's nothing in San Antonio? Shop-wise??? I know the CCAD area should have some engine shops.

Stay safe...

Brad

Yes, I'm just about as far South as Texas goes and near the Gulf Coast. Kerrville is in the San Antonio area and this shop at least talks like they know 235s. The resons I don't want to drive a hard bargain is because I'd have to drive 5 hours there. So, I'd hate to come home empty handed because I could get the $400 for my block that I would want. Another idea is to drive up there with two 235s since I could pick up that other one for $125 and see if that sweetens up the deal. However, I would prefer to negotiate that over the phone to make sure we're on even terms before ever heading out that far. As far as warranty goes, I don't mind asking them to look over the motor they are pulling out, but I find it unreasonable to expect a warranty on a 58 year old engine.

Re: warranty

If a machine shop ever builds an engine for you, they had better guarantee it. It's pretty common for shops that do rebuilds to guarantee their work to some degree. I don't mean the 10 yr/ 100K miles type of warranty; what I'm referring to is that it pumps oil, lines are clear, bolts torqued, valves in spec- that sort of thing. You are correct that it would be unreasonable to expect a warranty on a 58 year old engine; that's not what I said, and that's not what you're implying. We're on the same page there, but I would ask for them to look over it...

Again, here's where some more experienced members might should tell you how to ask them & what to ask them. If the engine is sold as-is where-is... well, Tim covered that earlier last week, on the other engine.

Brad

As always, thanks for the free advice I appreciate all the help along the way.

I found the website for the shop I'm in touch with: http://goodoldayscustoms.com/Gallery.html

Could a bad water pump/overheating be causing the smoking?
I put in a bottle of Bar's Leak thinking $10 could buy me some time and get this thing down the block and back. I ran it for longer than usual (it ran for the recommended 5 min). As usual, it started to smoke as it warmed up, but this time, it started to overflow (water) out of the radiator cap. The temp gauge read 190F, but I'm not sure how reliable that reading is. Upon shutting down, I could hear a gurgling sound coming from the block. It got me thinking what could be going on... What could be causing that sound? Is there a way to check the water pump?

Look for water stain on the weep hole on the lower back side of the water pump. You can remove the belt momentarily and run the engine and see if the noise goes away.
Carl

I'll try it, but I heard the sound after shutting it off. I'd there a hose (upper?) I can disconnect to check for flow? There is what I thought was a weep how on the top side of the pump. Could this be the cause?

Starting with a cold engine. Remove the Radiator cap. Watch the water in the top of the radiator. It will move when the thermostat opens. It will spit steam at you if you have an air pocket that stopped the pump from working. So look out. Most thermostats have a hole in them to prevent this, but some do not. The "gurgle" you hear is water boiling. More often than I would care to remember, air in the system has caused overheat issues. If the pump is bad, no water will move. If there is air in the system the pump won't move it. If the pump weeps or leaks, (see 52Carl's post) it won't keep hot water moving like it should. With the belt off, wiggle the fan front to back. If the bearing is bad you will feel it. Just for your information, steam is 1800 times bigger than the water it comes from. Steam means No more water left in there. The thermostat can be drilled(cheap fix). On a lot of these old trucks, the radiator pressure is low, if not 0. Steam will cause them to spit like crazy. Worst case, you have a bad head gasket(bad machine shop), warped head(bad machine shop), or cracked head(bad machine shop). Start with the easy stuff. Don't panic and figure the bad stuff until the easy stuff is checked.

I'm not sure if this could be the cause, but there is no thermostat in there. I first it up again today with the same results. Is there some way to "burp" the cooling system?

Steve- there is no machine shop involved with the current engine.
And, just to be fair, there are a lot of bad variables in the mix with his engine now & over the past four months. Making chicken stew out of chicken poo either way!

Gusco- here is the thermostat location. Did you remove the top radiator hose & thermostat housing to look down in this location? Somebody please correct me- but I don't think there is any thermostat inside the radiator.

Brad

Edit- I missed reading about the machine shop involvement- edit 2 I remember it now

I'm familiar with the thermostat location. There is not one in there. The head was taken off and taken to a machine shop to install new .015 oversize exhaust valves due to guide wear. They said to have checked it and not found any cracks. I cleaned out the thermostat area during that disassembly/reassembly process.
What should I be looking for in there?

Put a thermostat in there, if there's not one.

Does it go as pictured (spring down)? Would lack of a thermostat lead to overheating?

Still no circulation? Things to check include, Water pump, is it working? You can turn it by hand. With no thermostat you can feel it try to move water. No thermostat will make it impossible to warm the engine to the proper temp, if the water is moving. Is the radiator clear, and flowing? A good flush with garden hose will help with that. Don't be afraid to back flush, it can get clogged with crud. Open the block drain(back of engine, driver side). Does water come out? Is it plugged? A bit of coat hanger is helpful for unclogging if rust has collected in there. I know these are messy, wet and unpleasant tasks. Better now than when it is real cold however. I think one of the above is not working. Water is not moving and a hot spot is making steam. I would not jump to a bad block, head gasket yet. Get the water moving first.

Thanks for the help Steve_HH, and I concur with your advice. The block if cracked, but If I can get it moving I will be able to move on to other projects (brakes, etc) while I decide on a swap candidate.

*is cracked