The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Shop hours???

How many billable hours should a mechanic charge to swap out a 3-speed transmission? (1950 half ton)

To replace a clutch at the same time?

Thanks!

How many hours are you getting told? The swap goes on in the truck, I assume? Somebody on here has an hour rate book the shops use; I don't.

It's a total of 18 bolts. Any one of them could add 30 minutes.

Brad

If you are talking about changing the transmission with the engine in the truck (which I assume you are) it should be a relatively easy job if you know what you are doing. I just did this recently and it took me several days of fighting to get the newly rebuilt transmission back in. What the shop manual does not tell you is that you need to removed the cross member at the rear of the transmission on order to get the rear support for the transmission installed. Its also a good idea to use the alignment pins or dowels described in the shop manual as you are removing the transmission to keep from putting excessive pressure on the pressure plate and causing it to become mis-aligned with the clutch and not allowing the front of the transmission to go back in and engage the crank shaft which will require you to re-align the clutch. Don't ask me how I know.
If you are changing out the clutch I am pretty sure the bell housing will have to be removed. This I did not have to do in my situation. Removing the bell housing would require supporting the rear of the engine, removing the rear engine supports and then removing the bolts holding holding the bell housing.
Mike

The bell housing does not come off during a clutch swap.

I just did a g/box replace on a '37, Floor pan out, drain oil , hand brake assy cross shaft remove, ball joint , top of g/box off , mount bolts , earth strap, rear mount disassemble. Pull box , 1 1/4 hrs .

Took longer putting it back 'cause the '37 U Joint is a tricky thing , old arthritic fingers , eh. Oil in the box and the Ball housing . So another 1 1/2 hrs and the owner refitted the floor.

Also when doing just a g/box swap, it is helpful to have a clutch guide tool to check that all is well before you damage your back trying to fit something that won't go slip the align tool in , press the clutch pedal , give the tool a little wiggle , release clutch , ALL GOOD

The clutch swap is easy , but it is essential to use a guide tool to keep the plate aligned.

Clutch align tool , I use a gearbox input shaft . Guaranteed to fit.

Does anyone have the labor rate book? Or the online access to one of the databases?

Spotbiltxo has had issues in the past with housing authority and being able to do the work where he lives.



Brad

I'd fire a mechanic who couldn't change a clutch (which includes R&R the transmission) in less than 4 hours. A really good time would be 2 hours or so.
Jerry

If you get quoted 3 hours flat rate you'd be getting a fair deal in my opinion

Good morning, and thanks everyone for your comments. Brad is correct that there is no way I can do the transmission replacement at my residence as the
HOA is very strict. Two of my Inliner buddies have come down with health issues recently and so my much needed repair continues to be put off. Passed a repair shop yesterday with an AD truck parked in front so I stopped in.The mechanic said it would take him 3 hours to R & R the transmission. He didn't quote a price on the clutch job. He also didn't tell me his shop rate. Given my situation, I've about decided to load it up on a friends flatbed trailer and take it to him and let him do the job. It's been way too long since I've been able to enjoy driving my truck!

Thanks for all the comments guys.

I have an opinion on HOA's if you want to hear it. The HOA acts the very same as the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in that THEY decided what you can and cannot do in your own home. In America? Not if I have anything to say about it. Don't feel bad though, my own son complains about the same thing. (He knows I feel he is an idiot for subjecting himself to communism and is fine with it.) In San Antonio? What would General Santa Anna think? You need to talk to Sam Houston about this.. THIS IS TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE! lol! I concur with 3 hours like everyone above. But if you need to tow it out of the HOA Heaven you find yourself in, ADD a few hours.

I'd still ask him his rates as he has given you the hours. NEVER take anything for granted....and the "additional" to replace the clutch at the same time should not be over 1/2 hour.
In my opinion.....and around here, local shops are 75-85 an hour while dealers are 95-135 per hour. I do know a "jam up" mechanic who works weekends at his shop for 50 and hour and is as good a mechanic that you can find.
Yes, ASK before you get the bill and also look for charges for the grease, shop rags and some charge a "disposable" fee for whatever they can think of. To be informed is knowing all you can before hand.

I don't know if anyone can be held to a "Flat Rate Manual" for anything that old. For those of us with experience it is a relatively straight forward job. However, there can be some be some considerations based on 50 years of grease and crud, broken or stripped bolts, and most importantly what kind of a mess did the previous repair person leave behind. If the shop person stands there and scratches his head and exclaims that he has never seen one before and he will give it a shot, take it somewhere else.
Fred

I'm a logical person, so I understand the rules of an HOA, but not allowing an owner to work on his vehicle on the driveway for a day seems a bit too strict for me. Yet there isn't anything I can do about it...... It is what it is.

I'm going to take Alvin's advice & give this fella a call to ask what his shop rate is. It's the smart thing to do. Will let everyone know what he says.

Spot- Take that thing to the Stovebolt reunion in Kansas City! Problem solved...

Brad

A local auto machine shop here charges $90 an hour. Things are getting way expensive with wages remaining what they were in 2007. I may have to go out and get a job if this keeps up!

Its why I set up my Farm-It-Out section on my website. People with goods or services can put themselves out there to make a few bucks. I wish I could get a machinist to participate. There is only so much you can do with a portaband, grinder, and mig.

Spot, I am not ragging on the notion of what we call around here Covenants. You dont want someone building an outbuilding in their backyard that looks like the Taj Mahal. Its the audacity of them charging you for it, and then restricting men from being men with their automotive hobby on one outside vehicle.

I have 90 acres, a shop, and a rack full of rifles, all paid for. Anyone who presumes to tell me what to do on my own property would be well-advised to do so from at least a thousand yards away.
Jerry

I agree with you Jerry, that's why I'll never be able to live in a city or suburb. Home owners associations definitely aren't my cup of tea.

Rick

In the FWIW area, flat rate WHEN EVERYTHING WAS NEW AND CAME APART EASILY to replace transmission and clutch was 4 hours.

Three hours is great, but as others have suggested, check the hourly rate - currently $85.~$125. in rural central Missouri.

Jon.

Was finally able to speak with Brian, the mechanic/owner, & his shop rate is $75/hr. So, if to R & R the tranny is 3 hrs, replace the clutch/pressure plate, etc is about a 30-40 minute job, & to install a new rear main rope seal is another 30-40 minutes, then I should be looking at 4 hours & no more than 4 1/2. That will set me back about $350 plus tax. Considering my situation living in an HOA, & that my buddies are ailing with health issues right now & can't help me, I think having this mechanic do the work just might be the way to go. I like wrenching and also saving money by doing my own work when I can, but I'm up against the wall on this one. At least I'll have the old truck back on the road & I'll start enjoying driving it again.

Next time I'm buying a 40 acre ranch where I can have horses, goats, a chicken coop, and........ a big 'ole shop where I can work on my stuff and nobody can tell me I can't!!! Ha!

...and along with the labor don't forget the new oil, grease and some "odd and ends". Basically, your looking at $500 in the end. Still, in your situation, may be the way to go. The older we get the less time we have to fool around. Get it done and enjoy it like you mentioned. Good luck. Let us know how things go. (Really to let us know if we're even close in thinking what goes on these days

I'd like to hide and watch that "30 minute" rope seal change! Maybe I could learn a thing or two! He is aware the oil pan needs to be removed, plus the rear main bearing cap, right?
Jerry

Alvin, yes, there will be additional costs involved. Priced the clutch kit from NAPA yesterday at about $145 on sale. Plus additional unexpecteds & shop charges. I figure I'll probably spend $600 to get it back on the road.

Jerry, if not 30-40 minutes, then how long to replace the rear main seal? I'm pretty sure it's leaking & has contributed to the chattering clutch I've been dealing with.

Chuck

Is this a 216 or 235? I agree with Jerry.. NO WAY is that going to take 40 minutes. Complete removal of the oil pan, then how do you even get to the block half of the seal without removing or at least seriously loosening the crank? Then angling the crank with the front cover still on could cause a bad spot on the front seal.

Am I missing something guys? The crank has to be out of the way to get to the whole rope seal? This is worth asking because, Chuck, if this guy isnt familiar with these engines, you are taking it to the wrong place. It could end up costing you way more than you expect. If its a 235, get a neoprene rubber seal. It will last longer and do a better job.

It's a 216, and the time to R & R the rear seal was my guess. Apparently I thought it was a much less complicated repair. I'll ask the mechanic directly how many HOURS it will take him to replace the seal. Anybody know how many hours were approved in the old rate manuals for this repair??

Thanks Jerry and Deve for the information.

My guess is the the hours given in the old shop rate manuals are likely meaningless. Even back in the day as my old long serving GM trained and expert mechanics friends would say, they often ran into problems the time and motion studies used for the manual and used as a basis didn't experience some of the real world difficulties the line guys had to overcome. In fact we discussed a similar case just this morning at our weekly coffee club. Given the years since new and no telling who buggered up stuff or how they "fixed" their buggers it will likely take the time it takes.

That was the truth then, and it is the truth now with more modern vehicles (especially as they get older and lamer).
Back then many things/parts/systems became older and lamer more quickly.

Under ideal circumstances, I'd figure about 2-3 hours to change a rope seal, assuming the upper half could be slipped into place with a Sneaky Pete tool. It will be necessary to loosen all the main bearing caps a couple of turns to let the crankshaft drop away from the upper seal a few thousandths, but I've never had to do anything drastic like pull the transmission to put a rear seal in. If the trans is out anyway for a clutch change, that would make a rear rope seal job easier, but it still wouldn't be a 30-minute job, more like 1 1/2 hours at least. Don't do something stupid like try to put a lip seal in a 216- - - -the groove in the block and cap aren't machined for it.
Jerry

Thanks for your comments Jerry. I had no idea it would take that long to install a rear rope seal. I learn something new every day here on this website!