The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline STEERING HELP PLEASE ! ! !

I have my 49 done from the ground up and it wants to pull to the right, I have had it aligned by two shops and it is right on the specs but still pulls to the right. I have the stock suspension with upgraded shocks, the truck is lowered about 2" all around, I am running 235/70\15 tires on 8" rims 35 psi. What could cause this to pull to the right or what can I try to eliminate it. Also I swapped the front tires L to R and it made no difference.....any ideas are welcome
THANKS
BILL

original/stock axle?
original/stock steering knuckles/spindles
original/stock brakes/drums?

If yes, did you have to "adjust"/modify for offset of your 8" rims/wheels?

yes all stock parts I did not have to modify anything to fit the rims. it does have power steering also.

What did you do to lower it and did you lower the back the same amount as the front?
Jon

measure the distance from the front spring hanger to the axle on each side. if a spring center bolt is sheared the axle may have moved back on the rt side. a 1/8 inch difference will cause it to pull. mtneermike

I measured both sides and the RH side is back close to 1/8th so that will be tomorrow's job hopefully I can lower the axle enough to get a peewee grinder in and elongate the hole a bit, maybe I will do the back on the RH side and the front on the LH side a bit I will post the results.
THANKS AGAIN
BILL

I moved the RH side of the axle ahead and it did not help, I actually over corrected and it made no difference so what else will make it pull to the right or what will correct it ???

Just a thought...bad wheel bearing?

Dragging brake shoes on right side?

I had them all apart and repacked them so I know that they are good. KEEP the suggestions coming I'm guessed out at this point.

Is there anything you can think of that may have changed the caster angle on the right side? If the angle is lower on the right side, your truck will pull to that side. But with a straight axle you generally have to twist the axle to make this happen.

Has it been checked for proper Steer Ahead adjustment? With a beam axle, that would be the last adjustment after the Total Toe is set, provided it has an adjustable drag link. If it's not correct, and the toe was set with the steering box off center, that can also cause a pull that's hard to track down and correct.

Also, have you tried measuring from the center of the rear wheels to the center of the front wheels? You will need a helper for this and it is a long shot, but it might give a clue.

What Bill said is spot on, by the way. You have to have the steering gear at center.

One more thought...you're driving this on a flat surface when it is pulling, yes? If you're driving on a crowned road (especially a highly crowned one), your truck will want to follow the slope down (which is going to be leaning to the right unless you're on the left side of the crown).

I have 4deg castor shims I just removed them and it made no difference. I am interested in the steer ahead adjustment I would imagine you should disconnect the drag link and go full left then full right and then back to center and with the wheels in the straight ahead position adjust and reconnect the drag link. I would imagine that a power steering sector increases pressure when it leaves center to add pressure for turning. I will look at this tomorrow. I had this aligned Saturday and everything is right on spec.

Steer Ahead is an adjustment to put the wheels straight ahead when the steering box is on center. Most steering boxes, especially the later power steering boxes, the pitman can only go on in certain positions. With the stock style drag link, there is no adjustment for Steer Ahead. Later trucks with a beam/drive axle tend to have adjustable drag links to allow for Steer Ahead, they adjust exactly the same way a tie rod does. There really isn't a spec for Steer Ahead, other than perhaps 0. If it's not correct, then the front wheels will be turned to one side or the other when the steering wheel is on center, which will show up as an inaccurate individual toe setting. If the shop only checked it for total toe, which is the only adjustment, individual toe will not show up. With the truck being lowered, that can cause issues with the stock style drag link, possibly causing an incorrect Steer Ahead setting. You might take a look in the Tech Tips section, I believe there is a tech article in there on how to make an adjustable drag link for the AD trucks.

Yes, the procedure you've said is good. Don't force it when you go all the way to the end in either direction...you can feel it stop when there is no more room. When you're going back the other direction count the rotations as carefully and exactly as possible. Once you've done that, you'll know how many turns are in your box. Divide this by two, turn back to that point (from the end of travel) and and you can mark it for center.

Good luck!

I adjusted the steer ahead in the sector and it was off a little so I corrected it as best I could now I have 1&3/4 turns each way from center and it still wants to drift to the right, no improvement to speak of. What aspect of the front end alignment causes it to pull and could I over compensate this adjustment to see if I can make it better or worse, nothing that I have done has made any difference.

While what you did will find the center of the steering box, it will not correct steer ahead, that is a linkage adjustment.
Now, as far as things in alignments that can cause a pull, there's quite a few that can do that. Some you've already eliminated (tires, and some you really have little control over other that trying to compensate for them (road crown). We've already touched on Steer Ahead, and Jon mentioned Caster Spread. Both require aftermarket parts to correct on an AD truck. With Steer Ahead, and adjustable drag link, and Caster is the shims. You might be able to have a .5 degree shim put in the right side to correct for road crown. Camber can also be an issue, it'll pull to the high side, but unless the shop you're going to has the proper equipment to bend the axle, that's essentially non adjustable. Most shops that handle 1 ton and smaller trucks do not have that equipment, simply because it's been obsolete for 30+ years, most beam axle trucks still on the market use cam bushings for that adjustment. Steering Axis Inclination and Included Angle should also have been checked, while those generally will not cause a pull, it would indicate a bent spindle. The rear toe and camber should also have been checked. While not adjustable on these trucks, which is why many shops skip checking it, that can indicate if the axle is swung or possibly bent. Much of the vehicle tracking and stability is in the rear, not the front, a swung axle could cause a push, making it drive to one side or the other. The wheelbase check Jon mentions is a very good way to check for a swung rear axle, and, while it's using a different method, is how modern alignment equipment checks for that, as well as measuring the toe setting

Could you tell us how you lowered the truck? New springs? Lowering blocks? What sort of power steering setup? How about the drag link? Link parallel or sitting at an angle? Is the link running laterally or front to back (like the original)? Anything get changed with the rear axle/differential? Any visible damage to the frame, axle, anything make you think this truck got hit sometime in the past--maybe on one side? We're in the dark on what has been done. Bill and I and everyone else here really want to help you solve this problem asap. The more complete picture we can see, the more likely it is we can keep ourselves from running off into the weeds too much.

On the idea of front wheels and rear wheels and tracking: If you have something that is straight and long enough you can see if your back wheels and your front wheels are tracking straight (essentially they should be traveling in parallel lines with toe in at zero and the front wheels set straight, measuring at the center of the wheels). Even if the front and rear wheels are designed to be at different widths you can check this as long as you know what your universe is supposed to be. I've seen people do it with pieces of plywood cut straight and glued, channel iron, all sorts of things...I even knew one body man who would first measure between front center wheel to rear center wheel on each side and then wet a spot on the floor in front of each wheel and push the vehicle through those wet spots to get a clear picture of exactly where each wheel was going during its travel on any car which had been in an accident bad enough to have changed things.

First, I want to thank you guys for all of your interest and ideas it's really nice to have others to bounce ideas off of.
I lowered the rear of the truck 2" to make it sit level. I made some 2" spacers and installed them between the axle and the springs as you know the axle rides below the springs. I installed a set of gas shocks. The power steering was on the truck when I bought it is either A GM or ford sector and it is mounted on the outside of the frame it has the gold bracket that mounts to the back side of the LH backing plate, the drag link sets very close to horizontal and the drag link is adjustable and it runs front to back. I had the body off this winter and the frame shows no evidence of any damage or repair. I also measured the rear axle position from the rivet in the spring and corrected it as it was off by 1/8". I also did this to the front axle so they should be square with the frame.

Please let us know how this goes, amigo. Not being able to see things up close & personal makes it sort of hard but hopefully you're on the right course. I'll be curious to know.

Did the shop(s) that did the alignment work for you give you a printout? Preferably showing before and after measurements.

I think I may have found the problem. A friend told me to adjust the drag link so that it is not on dead center when going straight as this will eliminate the sector if it still pulls so I gave the drag link 3 turns and drove it and it did not pull to either side so he said that points to a worn sector. This sector was in the truck when I bought it so it's hard telling where it came from. Does all of this make sense to you guys ???

Not exactly, but we may be just be speaking in different tongues. Are you and your friend talking about the sector gear itself or are you calling the steering box the sector? Sorry to seem confused, but in a typical steering box you'll have a worm shaft, a ball nut and a sector gear which is an inseparable part of the pitman shaft. The sector gear is usually taper cut so that it is adjustable...meaning the further you push it in with the adj bolt, the less tolerance exists between the ball nut and that sector gear. ??? Power steering changes the setup, but the basics are not very different.

I am talking about the steering gear box that operates the pitman arm. After adjusting the drag link away from center and finding that it eliminated the RH pull I talked to a friend who builds and restores a lot of high end cars and he told me that it is not unusual for these gear boxes to fail. So I can either leave the steer ahead setting off dead center or replace the gear box, what do you guys think ??? note: I pretty much know what I am doing with vehicles, but every now and then something like this pops up and makes a dummy out of you !!! That's when it's nice to have others like you guys that have been down the same road to go to for advice.

" . . a friend who builds and restores a lot of high end cars and he told me that it is not unusual for these gear boxes to fail. . ."

Are you referring to the original steering box, or to: "The power steering was on the truck when I bought it is either A GM or ford sector and it is mounted on the outside of the frame it has the gold bracket that mounts to the back side of the LH backing plate, the drag link sets very close to horizontal and the drag link is adjustable and it runs front to back."?

Even after fiddling with steering since the mid 1960s, there are still things I see that make me feel like a dummy. I think the best thing at this point would be for us to figure out what sort of steering box you have. Once we determine that plus what the prior owner may have done with it, I'll bet somebody here will have an "aha moment" and we can offer some suggestions that are more valid. It sounds to me like the prior owner installed a kit from somewhere, but we don't really know. Could you post some digital images to Photobucket and give us a link? Never say never and all of that, but I've not heard anyone advise to adjust a box off dead center to make it drive straight. I could be misunderstanding your friend's thoughts, but that seems fundamentally flawed to me...at least I can tell you in all these years I've not seen a single steering box designed to work that way.

Just for grins, here is word for word what the manual for the truck says:
"The sector teeth are also cut so that when the sector is adjusted to take out all backlash at the center of travel or straight ahead position, there will be slight backlash at each end of travel, thus snugness of the sector in the rack teeth in a straight ahead position can be obtained without sacrifice of perfect freedom at extreme positions, right or left, of the front wheels." Meaning at dead center you'll have the tightest mating of the sector gear and rack teeth (teeth on the ball nut) and as you turn to the right or left that clearance will diminish.

He was referring to the power steering gear box, I should add that he also services current daily drivers so he has a lot of exposure to different problems. I think what his point was if it doesn't pull to one side when you are off of dead center it proved that the problem is the gear box, I know driving it this way is not the correct fix it must be replaced but like you said I wonder what the prior owner did and where this box came from A lot of things could have happened in the past 66 years.

Rather than "diminish", wouldn't the clearance be better described as "increased"?
Carl

Ha, ha, yes it would Carl. I believe I was thinking the tightness would diminish (which it will) and typed the opposite. Thanks much for correcting.

So back to Scotty, Ok we've been talking about steering gear and alignment trouble, but it is sounding like your friend is saying he thinks the problem is in your control valve, right? Bad seals (or other problems) in your valve are causing it to fail to recirculate fluid and therefore making it push to one side when it should be going nowhere and just allowing the fluid to recirculate freely when centered, yes? Okay, this can happen (not commonly in my opinion, but still it can happen). Try this: With the wheels straight ahead and the steering gear set right in the center (in other words everything is adjusted just as it was designed to be--in your case you would need to re-adjust your draglink if it was in the right place when it was pulling), set the parking brake, jack the car up so the wheels are off the ground, set it securely on stands and start the engine. If the steering wheel and wheels start turning even a little bit in the direction of the pull by themselves, something isn't right in the control valve and you need to focus attention here first. If this isn't the problem, they should stay right in the center and then you know the problem is coming from somewhere else.

I understand what you are saying about the backlash so why does it want to pull when straight ahead is set at dead center, it seems like with less resistance either right or left of dead center it would really want to pull to the right if it was a alignment or suspension problem ???

Well, up to this point I haven't been thinking about the power steering valve (in the box). If all is right with the world, when your sector gear is in the center position (right in the middle) then your valve should allow the power steering pump to send fluid to the power steering valve, divert it without using it for any work and send it back to the pump. It should do this infinitely unless the valve isn't working correctly. When you begin to turn your steering wheel (say to the right), the valve moves and opens channels to allow the pump to send fluid in to push and assist your effort to turn the wheels. When the turn is finished and you're going straight again, your pump and valve should return to the job of just recirculating the fluid. Since a picture is worth 1000 words, I took a moment to look on Google to find a simple explanation: http://www.agcoauto.com/content/news/p2_articleid/214

I think what your friend is saying is the valve in your steering box is faulty. If this happens, fluid may continue to go where it isn't supposed to be when everything is centered. If this happens it is like somebody grabbing the steering wheel and trying to turn it in that direction while you're trying to drive straight. In really severe cases, the car may try to steer itself with vigor. But problems like this are not all that common.

If your friend is on the right track (or not) can be learned by setting everything in the center, jacking up the car and starting the engine. In my experience, nearly 100 times out of 100 times if the valve or the seals in the valve are not working, the steering wheel will start trying to turn. If it doesn't, we go back to some adjustment (or other) problem. If you want to disconnect your drag link, you can do that, too. Just set the steering wheel in dead center and start the engine. You don't have to jack the car up in this case. If the wheel turns to the right, you have caught your culprit.

To answer your question of why does it want to pull when straight ahead is set at dead center? The pump's job is always to pump fluid and if the valve isn't working or if it for some reason is not at its center, it can let the fluid trickle over to the place where it pushes against the power steering piston. So then you have the invisible hand down there steering for you...

One more note: if you disconnect the drag link to try this, be careful not to let the wheel go flying over to either side quickly. Doing this could damage your steering gear and probably will damage it. Stick your hand in the opening of the steering wheel to keep it from rotating very far or grab it when it begins to turn any at all...

Jon G. I will try your wheels off of the ground test today needless to say I HOPE it drifts off to the right. If and when we do solve this problem we will be a lot smarter for the next guy that has this problem. Before I retired we had a saying at our plant, " we never had a problem that we couldn't fix if we threw enough time, money and parts at it. Now back to my project " MORE TIME "

Yep, that is pretty universal in nearly every industry, isn't it? If you toss enough money at a problem (and drink enough beer while you're doing that), eventually a solution will appear. I find many times the answer comes to me in my sleep or when I'm just about to go to sleep. Hope you're enjoying retirement, by the way. I am. If you ever read any Travis McGee novels (John D. MacDonald), Travis retires any time he has enough money and works when he needs to. If you haven't read any of them, I suggest doing it if you like fun books.

There is one more possibility, Scotty...the power steering valve is very sensitive. I mean to say there is a center position and it occupies a very small spot. A slight turn of the steering wheel and that valve will start directing fluid into the piston area. And this actually probably should be called hydraulic steering because that's what it actually is. Anyhow, the possibility is this: when you turned your drag link those 3 turns that stopped the pulling to one side, you could have (out of pure luck) stumbled onto the spot where the valve centers and you could have been just fine there. I know...it sounds like a long shot, but it could have happened. You may have missed the center mark by just a couple of hairs and if you did, you could still have the pulling thing going on. As I think I mentioned 3 or 4 times before, it isn't common for a control valve to just break. I've seen them get gummed up from sitting too long or something stupid like pouring brake fluid in the reservoir instead of power steering fluid. I've seen seals go bad (they're not expensive or hard to replace). I've seen them wear out, but man it takes a long time. I've seen them go bad after a wreck or sharp impact...but they usually don't just stop working. Good luck!

This one sat for 8 months with out being used while I was rebuilding the truck and before I disassembled the truck I don't recall it pulling but I didn't drive it that much before tearing it apart. Also I tried the drag link 3 turns CW and 3 turns CCW and got the same result.

Hmmm, well it sounds like time for us to figure out who made that steering box and get some info on taking it apart to see what it might be doing.

Jon,
I did your test with the wheels off of the ground and wheel at dead center, started the engine and the wheel drifts to the right, turn it back and it drifts back to the right every time so it looks like steering box time, now I have to look for numbers on the sector to identify what it is or who made it I will keep you posted. Are these boxes rebuildable by the average guy { I know they sell rebuild kits } but I've been told that this is quite a intricate project.

Ok, that's a control valve issue...or the most favorable situation is you don't have the control valve set in the dead center. You'd need to experiment to see if the wheels stay stationary at some spot in the steering wheel's rotation (wheels elevated). And it can be touchy.

Some of these are not difficult to rebuild and some are pretty tedious, but the first step is to figure out which box you have. Is there any way you can post or email digital images so we can see? My email is jon_goodman@yahoo.com