The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Plugs for HEI

I just try to get it right before I advocate for one way or the other. So the tests show the gap that GM recommends because its a GM system for the most part is wider than stock ignition. I trust the engineers at GM. Take ANY HEI system made since the beginning and they all recommend wider gaps. You can go to any number of web sites and they will tell you about the same as Ken just did. Wider gaps burn leaner fuel mixtures and the results are at my site for everyone to see. What is not there is how much better the engine runs with HEI. It's night and day. I even included tests using the stock coil so you can see the fuel penalty for not putting a hot enough coil in. I am very happy with the results and I am very sure now that anyone using this system will be thrilled with it.

Dave the electrical guy on VCCA and Tr-Five uses an old Ford Distributor for his small body HEI. My friend Jim and now Bill not to mention Jason use the Chevy one. There is no downside to these innovators who are also engineers coming up with their own systems. The distributor is merely a timing trigger once you put the reluctor and pickup in. A magnet creates the trigger at a very low current (milliamps) and sets off the spark. If cross fire were a problem, or longevity, we would have heard by now.

I know some people just hate it when others are trying to innovate and they had nothing to do with it, but honestly, lets drop the jealousy. These guys deserve our respect. Once you take the mystery out of how the module works, you can put it anywhere. Wire distance may be a problem at 4000 and more RPM, but not on ours. I mean, under the rear bumper may be a little excessive. Even so, I am not taking any chances and mine is right below the coil.

We don't need to rehash the HEI thread of a year ago, it is now over. It has been tested, proven, and ALL of the questions have been answered. Oh, you can't gap an R45 to .060. YOU CAN, but I wouldn't. Champion makes a wide gap plug specifically for HEI. I get them from Tom Langdon for a buck a piece. You can gap those to .080 or more if you wanted.

Not sure why all the derogatory comments on something that I am doing, other than people can just be jackasses. I know because I too can be.. especially when I have had enough like now.

Deve, this may get me banned from the group, but so be it if it does.

You gripe about others calling names and having bad attitudes, yet you continue to provoke and name call as well.

Want the unwanted remarks to stop, then quit making them yourself.

It is time to grow up and be the adult you claim to be.

There is a lot you are right about, but there is a lot Hotrod is about.

It's time to find some middle ground and put this infernal fued to rest.

Being boastful and trying your best to show your smarts really isn't very impressing.

But I know of two threads now where you and hotrod bicker over things that could be handled in a much better way. And this bickering is getting old.

This makes coming here to learn more of a day in Romper Room rather than learning something and I'm surprised the moderators have put up with it as long as they have.

You say you've had enough. Good. The quit stirring the pot and calling names too.

Good grief.

Moderators, if you don't like what I'm saying, then kick me off here. I'm tired of the drama.

I think I am starting to read a trend on here.
A old engine is an old engine and a old stovebolter is a old stovebolter, and you can show either of them new tricks.

I guess 60+ years for me some how left me out of this state of mind. I will try the old and try the new and choose what works best for me as the way things stand they both work as long as you don't get to wrapped up in trying to do it half [censored]ed.

How many here are still running DOS?

Was thinking of attending the Reunion this year for the first time. Not now, too much drama brewing. Maybe next year.

Roy you wont get kicked off for stating your opinion. You are absolutely right. The way you have seen me behave over the last 2 weeks or so is not me. I actually instruct classes on getting along on the internet. You treat everyone with respect and dignity the same as if you were standing right in front of them. I of all people get that. Here is the problem:

A bully is someone who doesn't get any of the above. They criticise just because it gives them some sort of jolly. They pick on someone they don't think will retort. You cannot reason with a bully. So what you have to do is have the depth of character to dig deep down and give them back exactly what they take for granted they can dish out every day. It's painful and it saddens me to no end. But guess what? Until certain people understand clearly that we are all human and we ALL deserve to be treated with dignity, this horror that they brought upon themselves will NOT stop. EVER!

All I am asking is to be treated with dignity and respect. OR.. NOT AT ALL! Thats even another great idea. If you can't be nice to me for some unknown reason, then don't post to any of my threads. So, this misery will continue until I am treated the same way everyone else deserves to be treated. Also, I don't give a tinkers darn how much you know. It does not give you the right to treat others with disrespect. I do not care who you are. YOU are tired of the drama? You have NO idea.

So lets see if the message is received and appreciated. I certainly hope so. I don't have anything against anyone. I am sure that most of this is a misunderstanding, but I guess we will see.

And, Martin, show up anyway. Its a worthwhile and fun time for all. Nobody is stupid enough to act up there. You never make decisions based on the few. (something I learned awhile back)

Some people, new to old trucks, think everything they just learned is a new trick. Old trucks, old engines and how to fix and operate them does not change. Computer operating systems do. If you ask for help, you are asking for an opinion. Opinions can also be facts. They can come from trying "new tricks" years ago. From actually being in the automotive trade. From being around long enough to know what works. What works is not half [censored]ed. Feelings are hurt by those who thought they were answering. Generally all forums are like that sometimes. Older people hear that "teach an old dog new trick" thing all the time. It's just a cheap shot at knowledge. You can't teach a wrong idea to knowledge.
The Chevy 350 motor plug gap started as high as .060 in mid 70's and has bounced between .035-.045 up into the 90's. All HEI. The auto makers have tried as high as .080 and came back down. Many years of .035 gap for 350 Cu In. HEI. This is with variations of systems like carbs, TBI, TPI, MAF, etc. and plug design improvements. .035 is an old "trick" and all the new dogs use it.
Bottom line: The U.S. Constitution says: "All persons shall have the right to set their spark plug gap to any dimension and Congress shall pass no law to remove this right"
My gap info, for what it's worth, comes from checking Chevy 350 motor from 1974 to 1994.

Deve,
In the scientific world, what HRL is doing is referred to as peer review.
If you think that he is rude, then you have never been subjected to actual scientific peer review. They are brutal and ruthless.
There is a reason for it. Thorough peer review encourages scientists to work as hard to disprove their own theories as they do to prove them. This approach saves everyone a lot of wasted time.
If you can't take the scintific heat, then maybe you should stay out of the laboratory's kitchen.
Rather than getting all pissy at comments made about what you are trying to do, maybe you need to sharpen your debating skills and constructively argue the issues point by point.
It has been my observation, over a significant length of time, that you have a tendency to get an idea in your head, then consider it to be "the answer", then you get defensive when someone counters with a differing opinion about the idea in your head.
My suggestion to you is, lighten up Francis!
You are a great idea guy.
You would be more productive if you honestly embraced criticism and differences of opinion.
Carl

ONE LAST TIME before I walk away from it all. You have old ideas that worked back in the day, you have new ideas that seek to improve the old. Both work. I have not spent 50 years working on cars truck and engines with out seeing what worked 50 years ago and what is improvements that work now.

One can write hours of details on gaps, but plain and simple if your raise the spark voltage the larger gap (with in reason) fits the math and the function, this is not my fact but the fact of hotrodders, race car builders, tuners, etc. and is been published long before the govt. made a stand on economy.
It is not the argument on which is better it is the brick wall approach in opinions that occurs with no looking to see what is going on. MY way or the highway is preached here as opinion, not just in this subject but so many others on this forum. I read all opinions here and balance them if they have negative thrown in behind them then on must wonder what good is there.

Bravo to those on here that put out opinions for thought with out the backing it as this is the way, the bible of fact.
Bravo to those who read and ponder what others are saying and coming from even if they offer a different view.

I have seen no one on hear that I would follow as being right on every thing, and if one dares to think they are why are you not putting this vast knowledge down in hard copy so it can be passed on for many years to come.

Long before this small corner discussion I gapped plugs stock on a stock system and .045 on a HV coil system. Of course I switched to copper plugs in the 70s from the old nickle alloy also as newer concept and technology arrived, maybe this is all a west coast thing brought to me by the speed shops and builders in OC and long beach. Maybe just the desire to find that new twist that was not done before. I not a H Ford concept follower every one should not drive a black car just because that was the way it was made.

Some days I think it would be nice to turn the clock back to the 50s, but then I think if it was that way I would be 6 ft under as the new ideas on treating cancer would not be around.
Evolutionary or revolutionary change does exist and new ways can and do replace older ones with better ways. Fight them, try and save them, but don't think they are it only.

BUT never stop providing that option either.

Yeah, I agree, .035 would be good on a 235.

Staying on topic without pettifogging, this is from the old guys at Champion Spark Plug Company. Interpret any way you wish.

"Gap Spacing — With increases in gap comes an increase in “start up” voltage, but the “lock in” voltage remains relatively the same regardless of gap. Example: fluorescent light — a 1′ long bulb or a 6′ long bulb use a very similar amount of voltage to keep the gases ionized but the larger bulb requires a substantially larger voltage (ballast/transfmr) to initiate the ionization."

I researched the gap issue heavily and came up with this same quagmire. Some say this, some say that. So I quizzed Jim Linder (my HEI guru) he said .045. I talked to Tom Langdon on the phone and he said .060. So rather than guessing, I ran actual tests to see exactly for myself which gap performs best with the 45k coil. Pertronix uses a similar coil, so the voltage isnt out of line.

At .035 fuel consumption was higher than .045. At .060 fuel consumption was higher than .045. .045 was the sweet spot. If you change the coil to a stock coil, then .040 was the sweet spot. Even the stock ignition tests came out better at .040. I am going with my test results. The tests were performed very carefully and all of the data is repeatable by anyone trying it themselves.

If you take the stock ignition, take the vehicle for a drive at .035. Record the gas mileage. Take the same drive gapped at .040 your gas mileage will be better and the engine will run better too. An older gentleman from Southern Cal told me so, and the tests proved it. Its exciting to take what people say, and test it. Then and only then do you truly know beyond a reasonable doubt. My testing was for HEI consumption however and not load tests. I still think they would track. Wish I had a working truck to test it! I have a 53 3100 that is close, but has no floor. There just isnt enough hours in the day.

My idle tests are the same idle you get in trucks, cars, boats, etc, so when fuel consumption is lower at idle, and the fuel mixture is stoic, seems to me the same results would track at speed all things being equal. One day I will be able to test under load.

All this for gas mileage? Waste of time. Maybe fix the floors and get something going down the road?