The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1956 235 not getting fuel

Hi all,

I'm having a problem with my 56 3200. It ran when I bought it but then it wouldn't start a few days later.

I determined there was no fuel getting to the carb.
I made sure the line from the pump to the carb was clear.
I replaced the pump (Napa branded 4149).
I put a can of good gas on the ground near the pump and put a short length of hose in the can and the other end on the pump inlet.

Still no fuel movement.

I attempted to verify the inlet and outlet by comparing to the old pump, and even hand-pumped the lever over a bucket of transmission fluid and the side of the pump I thought was the outlet was blowing air onto the transmission fluid and making ripples.

When I installed the new pump it was possible to get it to set flush with the block but I could move it slightly and get it to push against 'something' which I assumed was the cam lobe.

Is there any trick to making sure the pump arm is riding on the cam lobe?

Does it ride directly on the cam lobe? I've only worked on SBC before and as many of you know, they use a pushrod.

Thanks!
-Joe

When you did the test with the inlet in a gas can...where was the outbound side hooked to? Still to the carb? And using the starter to crank it over?

Could you do that same test with the outlet hooked to rubber hose and into a container so you could see the fuel run? (if it runs).

I will be quickly corrected if I am wrong, but all the engines I have worked on (235/261) from 54-62 just push up against the cam lobe directly. Some years have the lever up, some have the lever down, but don't forget to put a little grease on the lever to prevent galling. The one I just did, I was able to even start the bolts before it started resisting. I like JW's idea.. try that. You may have something plugged up between the pump and the carb. Good luck!

I could blow air through the line from the pump to the carb so it's not blocked. I think there is a blockage between tank and pump. I poured fuel into the hose, keeping it above height of pump and it sucked it down and pumped it to the carb . Actually enough fuel in the hose to run at idle for about a minute.

Hose from tank is below tank level and nothing is gushing out. Or dripping or anything. There's at least 7 gallons of fuel in the tank so my guess is it is blocked.

Going to blow from hose into tank and see if it unblock s it. Hoping that if the pressure of gravity on the fuel I'm the tank can get it to the pump then it will pump to the carb. Also think I wasted $50 on a new pump. Disassemble old pump and bolted it up. Saw diaphragm pumping. At least I have a spare now.

Will report back I'm a couple hours.

Thanks!

https://flic.kr/p/uwn6fT

Figured out the problem. The fuel fitting I'm that picture somehow came out ofthe tank. All the gas leaked into my grass and killed it and the truck wasn't getting any gas because there wasn't any. And the line was just dangling under the truck. For sanity sake I bungee corded a 1 gallon gas can to the grill and ran a hose from it to the pump. Aside from the distributor moving when I goose it it runs like a scalded dog with the freshly rebuilt carb.

So, how the heck does that petcock attach to the tank?! Lol

The distributor is supposed to move when you speed up the engine. Now you know that the vacuum advance is working.

Very interesting. So the distributor itself rotates when the vacuum advance kicks in? Never seen one like that before. I thought it was a problem because it started popping out the carb when it moved. Probably I just need to dial in the static timing and tune the carb.

You said you hooked up a gas can and no "fuel movement". So what did the dangling fitting have to do with it at that point? Then you stated you hooked up a gas can again and this time it worked??
ALSO, I would not run tranny fluid or air thru a diaphragm pump, if that's what it is/If that's what you did. You could damage it.
ALSO: The sender, mounted at top of tank, is a combo: float, rheostat, pickup tube and outlet tube. The gas is sucked out the top thru that outlet to pump. No fitting like you show!!!!. What the heck do you have for a gas tank? The tank is behind the seat. Only fitting on bottom of tank is a drain.
You should be able to look at the old pump and see wear to tell how it works against cam and also determine if the new one is correct.

To clarify, I hand operated the pump a couple times while aiming what I believed to be the outlet pointing at the surface of some liquid. Happened to be transmission fluid in a pan after I rebuilt my th400.

First time I ran the pump from the small can it was likely too low for the pump to suck anything out.

Second time I ran the pump from the small can it was bungee corded to the grille, good and high. I had also used a funnel to prime the lines. Holding the funnel higher than the carb and pouring gas in the gas line caused the in and out tocbotg fill with gas.

The sender on top of the tank has nothing but two cut wires coming out of it. Doubt it is a correct tank. Or at least not a correct sender.

If the hole on the bottom is a drain then the fuel line had been hooked to that. In the pic there is a valve on the left side of the thing in my hand. Probably the drain petcock.

Seems like the following...

The fuel line was hooked to drain instead of sender.
The drain has broken off of the tank.
I have an incorrect sender.

Hi Joe,
I saw your picture. It looks like someone added that valve to the gas line for the purpose of... siphon maybe? Who knows. It's not a stock item.
I don't see how it would help drain as the pickup line goes through the top of the sender. I wouldn't assume yet that the gas is drained out of the tank... you didn't say how full the tank originally was.
The Sender should have this rigid line coming out of it and going between the tank and back of the cab where it connects to a hose with fittings. The hose passes through a hole in the cab floor. The metal gas line runs down the frame from the carb and connects to the other end of the hose.
I will tell you that I had trouble with my sender in that the screen was totally clogged and wouldn't pick up any gas. I pulled the sender and cleaned it out and it worked fine. New Senders are under $30 BTW.
As for the pump, the pump lever does contact a lobe on the cam. As mentioned these lobes can wear, affecting the performance of the pump. Since you tested the pump with a can and the engine ran fine, I think we can rule out the pump.
I really would check the pickup screen on the sender.
Also, the two wires are for your gas gage. One, connected to one of the screws attaching the sender, is a ground wire. The other is for the gage.
Hope this helps. Good luck and keep us posted!
Jerry

Thanks for the info Jerry. Based on what you said I know for a fact I do not have a stock sending unit. There's only 2 wires coming out of it, no fuel line. the tank has a hole in the bottom where that valve was attached. It's broken off now so the 7+ gallons of fuel that I put in the tank when I parked it is now all drained out and seeped into my yard where all the grass has died.

I'll need to pull the tank and repair the hole on the bottom. Considering if I want to put a stock sending unit on it or keep using the bottom hole. I looked at all the usual suspects and they all are selling the sender for $50. Any tips for find one that is under $30?

I've seen them on Ebay for under. You can do a search there and get some results.
Truckandcarshop.com has them for $30.
Here's a link to what your gas tank and sender should look like.

Pictures

I would be curious, if you'd be able to blow into that line coming out of your tank, or if your ears would pop trying...

Do you have any pics of your tank?

Jerry

I don't have any pics of the tank. It looks like the tank in the link you posted, though.

There's actually no line coming from the tank anymore so I can blow through it easily. That's how i realized it wasn't connected, i just heard my breath hissing out somewhere under the cab. Nothing is connected to the tank except the filler neck and vent.

The sending unit installed in the tank does not have any lines coming out of it, just two wires that have been cut.

I'm interested at s to how the line connected to the tank then.
If the tank is empty, it could be the best time to take the straps out and remove the tank for an inspection.
If it's the correct tank you could get a new correct sender and hook it up the way it was intended... plugging the hole that the rigged-up gas line was connected to.
The picture I sent is from a catalog where you can also find all of the correct parts you need at good prices. I used them a lot for my '59 restoration.
Good luck.
Jerry

I'll be pulling the tank this weekend. If I can repair the drain I will. Otherwise I will seal the hole. Correct sending unit ordered.

At least I can keep it running from a gas can. Need to warm it up for oil change and coolant flush. Coolant is almost black!

So is there supposed to be a drain on the bottom of the tank? Wondering if I should cover the hole where the drain broke off or try to repair it.

My tank had no additional holes... only the gas and vent tubes and the large mounting hole for the sender... the sender had the line for supplying gas to the carburetor.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry. I'm leaning towards eliminating the bottom drain. If I ever need to drain the tank I can use one of those little electric pumps all the FLAPS have for around $30. Still waiting on the sender I ordered. For some reason the vendor I chose never processed the order a week after I placed it, it was just sitting in their system waiting to be processed. If I ever decide to go with that vendor again I'll be sure to call them direct instead of ordering online.

a side note, this thing starts and idles with just a tap of the starter. So glad I rebuilt the carb.

Well, the sender arrived yesterday. It had an interesting tidbit in the instructions about using it in 53-55 trucks. they supply fuel from the bottom of the tank and originally did not have a fuel line coming out of the sender. So I guess I have a pre-56 tank in my 56 which explains the threaded hole in the bottom and no fuel line coming through the sender.

I'll be replacing the sender in the next few days and I will block off the hole in the bottom. One less thing to worry about.
Thanks everyone!

The sender and fuel line started coming out the top of the tank in 1954 trucks.

Thanks for the correction Tim. I meant to say up to 53 but I didn't have the paper with me when I posted. I was getting confused with 1st series and 2nd series.