The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Smoke

Good advice, Carl- - - -I do it the other way, glue the gasket to the head, and it forms a dam to reduce leakage while doing a running valve clearance check, etc. Either one works, just a matter of personal preference. Glue isn't a substitute for a good-fitting valve cover, though, so straighten it first!
Jerry

Jerry,
I can see the advantage of gluing the gasket to the head on some engines as you mentioned. I have tried it on a 216, but had issues with getting the valve cover to seal on the valve cover. These covers have a flange on one side and a very narrow edge on the other side. With out gluing the gasket to the valve cover, it becomes very difficult to get everything to line up.
I tried to use the valve cover to line up the gasket before the glue set up on the head, but you can't see past the flange to see whether the gasket is in the right place or pushed toward the center too far.
Carl

Gluing the valve cover to the head gives you the best advantage. If you remove the valve cover, you dont ruin the gasket that way, and it gives you a lip that keeps the oil from leaking out. Put the gasket inside the cover with a very little gasket sealer (dual sided tape or a loops of masking tape) to stick it to the cover, with a GOOD amount of sealer on the head side. Flip it over and carefully set the assembly down on the head and tighten the valve cover down. Once it sets, the cover will come right off and its in the correct spot. This procedure would be only if you are uncertain about where the gasket lands on the head. Otherwise do it the conventional way.

Update: The oil passage from the rear of the block to the middle under the cover on the passenger side was, in fact, clogged. I cleaned it and put an appropriate brass plug on the top hole. The cylinders got 10 ml of MMO this am and compression seems to be increasing because the engine was much harder to turn by hand. I'm going to top off the MMO tonight ans let it sit overnight and try to start it tomorrow evening.

Good tip Deve!
Carl

Don't give up on me, guys! I haven't had a chance to start up the truck, but I did look under the valve cover and got some more info today.
The "fix" coming over from the lower part of the block to the head is capped off underneath where it meets the rocker assembly. It comes up from the right side (driver side) of the block, feeds through the valve cover, is welded onto the center of the rocker shaft, and then is crimped below that.
I fear that may be allowing all the oil pressure to go that route and not be adequately building up pressure elsewhere. If I'm not mistaken, the oil should come from the rear of the cam, up through the head, feed the rockers, and allow excess to drip back onto the head and flow back down to the oil pan.
I'm not sure what to do at this point. My first instinct is to return it to stock. However, I can't find any of the rocker oil tubes. My next idea becomes to pull the rockers and try to somehow manufacture that oil tube in close to stock form. I could also leave it as is and check for oil pressure, but I've never pulled the distributor out and I'm afraid to get it out of time. Suggestions?

Check Ebay for "Chevy oil connector". There are usually several of them listed, and the prices aren't outrageous.
Jerry

The two I found are for 59+. Will there be any issues in alignment of oil passages etc.? I believe my head is a 55.

Nobody'll give up on you- just keep posting & it'll be known you haven't given up. The Stovebolt Page is the 'frustration mitigation assembly' for these old trucks.

Re: the oil connector- there are "ranges" of years on these parts, but I'd message the seller, ask them if it will fit your cylinder head, & go from there. My other answer is "it'll probably work."

Keep charging-
Brad

Rocker connectors changed to a crimped off style in 1959. The 1959-62 style will fit the earlier engine but can supply too much oil to the top end.
I have a Blog post on rocker oiling LINK

Got a semi-related question on the top-end oiling. After life kept me away for several weeks, I am hoping to get back to the truck this weekend. Also reviving an old 235 and top end oiling verification was one step I missed on my previous startups.

Is there anything wrong with using the starter to spin the oil pump? Perhaps with plugs pulled and cylinder walls lubed to help things spin more freely?

I'm aware of the pulling distributor/using drill to spin the pump procedure. But rigging it all up and putting it all back together correctly is something I'd like to avoid if possible.

So running this part will not work? I have read a few posts about this being commonly done to increase oil pressure at the rockers. My primary concern is if it lines up with the passages correctly. If it does, I find it easier to modify the 59+ part by opening it up and perhaps adding some copper tubing to let it curve as it should rather than trying to make something out of what I have.

It will definitely fit the head.

How common is the correct piece on EBay? Right now there is only 2, but they are both for '59-'62... I'm not sure what to do here...

Post a link to what you're looking at on Ebay. You need something for a 1953-1962 head as far as date ranges go.

As Dave's article explains, if it looks to be the same form & fit (if it looks like what you are replacing on your truck)- the correct function with oil flow restriction can be made through some other adaptations.

Brad

Edit- good write-up Dave & thanks for sharing it

This is what I'm looking at: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NOS-59-60-61-62-63-CHEVY-ROCKER-ARM-SHAFT-OIL-CONNECTOR-3779879/301075230332?_trksid=p2050601.c100085.m2372&_trkparms=aid%3D111001%26algo%3DREC.SEED%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D30985%26meid%3Db8c7726bd0de4fcd8176c3317e773378%26pid%3D100085%26rk%3D3%26rkt%3D4%26sd%3D261884553941%26clkid%3D6325947477369076144&_qi=RTM2067269
There are two of them available now, but I'm worried that they are not for the right generation of head.

I've got a pinched off rocker oil connector headed my way. I'll report once it's on.

gusco- I replied (or...I thought I did) to your post Friday & that one will work that you linked to. Don't worry about it not being for the same year head.
It will work.

This is a bad introductory statement, but before my '55 engine (with '55 head) rebuild, the same connector oil line had been crimped about 20 years ago. Oil to the rocker arms flowed fine for those 20 years. Here's the best picture I could find. So, from the block and head numbers you posted- I know it will work.

Gunk in the pan, clogged lines, and an ample amount of inexperience got my engine to smoking last year & that's why I took particular interest in your problems last week.

Definitely check back in. I've been told that the crimping modification (on a line that was not crimped originally) was to force more oil outward to the rocker arms; not unlike the oil flow restriction in Dave's article, it's just more of a redirection of the flow.

Brad

The rocker arm oil connector has come it. I set the valve clearances this am and hope to get this installed with a new valve cover gasket this Saturday. Hopefully the oil issue is resolved. The compression has definitely increased after letting some MMO sit in the cylinders.
In adjusting the valves in noticed that some of the lock nuts were on top of the rockers while others were under. None of the pushrods look bent... is there some other reason the engine may be set up this way? worn valves? bent rocker arms?

Bump on last question from OP.

Brad

Pardon my ignorance: what does that mean?

It was meant to get someone to (potentially) answer your question since I didn't know. Me commenting "bumped" your question up to the top of the list in the forum, the same as this comment will. I've seen 'bump to top,' 'TTT', 'BTT' also.

Either way, I don't know why the lock nuts were configured that way.

Brad

Thanks

Compare the length of the pushrods on the rockers with the locknuts on top to the ones with the nuts on the bottom of the rockers. I've seen that done occasionally when a shorter than normal pushrod was used, to get a bit more travel on the adjusting screw. It could also mean you have some badly worn cam lobes, but there would probably be some very poor engine performance in that case.
Jerry

UPDATE: The good- I got the engine fired up again today after setting the valve clearances, soaking the cylinders in MMO (compression improved markedly because the engine got a lot harder to turn by hand), cleaning the oil passage under the lifter cover, installing a '59+ rocker oil connector. It fired up and seemed to run/rev a bit smoother. There is oil pressure to the rockers as evidenced by oil seeping out through the top weep holes in the rockers. The rear ones seemed to be leaking out a bit more than the front ones. However, they all appeared to be getting oiled.
The bad- the car still smokes quite a bit, especially as it gets warmer. I had a look in the cylinders when putting some MMO in there and the tops of the pistons look very sooty. There is some smoke coming from the crankcase ventilation tube, which leads me to believe I have some blow-by, but I don't know enough about these engines to say that it is certain (let me know what you all think).
I'd appreciate any input on next steps. My initial thoughts are to do a leak down test to see how the rings/valves may be sealing or possibly get a head gasekt and pull the head to have a better look at the cylinder walls, pistons, and valve seating surfaces.

One diagnostic tool I've been using a lot lately is a borescope that can be inserted into cylinders, radiators, transmission housings, etc. Mine plugs into a USB port on my laptop and gives a full screen picture of whatever I'm looking at, and it has a variable-intensity LED light built in. It fits through a 5MM hole and has a 36" probe with a 6 foot USB cable attached. Mine cost $48.00 on E Bay, with free shipping!
Jerry

Is the smoke blue or black?

Blue burning oil.

Black engine is running too rich.

If your engine sat that long without running chances are the carb is messed up and needs to be rebuilt. Then a full tune up on the engine.

Also if Marvel Mystery helped the rings that much that you saw a difference then that engine would benefit from running a lot more to help free things up some more. The oil needs a chance to work in to everywhere and get things cleaned and freed up to all they can be.

Do not underestimate the need for new oil to work its way through an engine.

My son's truck had two badly bent pushrods and valves badly out of adjustment. Getting new pushrods in and an initial cold valve adjustment reducing the valve lash to .005" over the maximum made the engine run a lot quieter.

Then putting in a new oil filter and changing the oil made the engine even quieter.

Sounds like a good idea and a valuable tool to have.

The thread has probably become too long to follow, but a lot of the info is there: smoke appears to be from oil, carb is rebuilt,new plugs/coil/dist cap/ wires/rotor. 1st oil change had a lot of water in oil, second one a bit less.
I think a sensible approach would be to do the valve stem seals, since they are relatively inexpensive, and then check the head if smoke continues after that.

Is it possible to do the valve stem seals without removing the head? I would think it is so long as each piston is moved up to TDC to keep the valves from dropping in. Thoughts?
Also, where exactly do the valve stem seals go? Do I remove the retainers and springs and then just slide them on the valve toward the base?

Yes, by applying some air pressure into the cyl via the spark plug hole.

There are kits available (somewhere, probably HF has one) and you can also buy the air chuck spark plug adapter to screw into the cyl hole. Can probably easily modify a compression tester to accept some air pressure also.
The air pressure will hold the valve up when you release the spring pressure.
Be advised that you want the cyl you are working on at TDC or the air pressure will spin the crank until the piston is pushed all the way down.

Good luck
Dave

I would've thought bdc so it couldn't possibly go any further down.

I took a break from the engine and took to rebuilding the differential. I am now back on the engine and wanted to share some info.
I purchased a side cover and valve cover gasket at my local Oreilly's. I also picked up a set of valve stem seals. Well it turns out the Fel-Pro head gasket set (which is only about $4 more than just the head gasket) has all of those seals/gaskets in the box.
Hopefully I'll be pulling the head this week.

Head came off this evening! The valves do look wet from inside the intake and exhaust ports. I cleaned up the head to take it over to my mechanic tomorrow to get his opinion. Some of the valves/spring assemblies seem to have a bit of play, so I'm worried it could be bad valve guides. I also cleaned the top of the cylinders and put some MMO on them while I cleaned the head. One of them (#3) seemed to have lost most of it over the 2 hour period. Should that be a concern? The cylinders do have a bit of a ridge and I did not notice any cross-hatching. I'll look at them again tomorrow with better lighting. If there anything I could do to improve that without pulling the engine? Lastly, any recommendations for checking the valve guides? I've heard pulling them or installing them quickly and listening for a sound is a good indicator.

Anyone??
The head is at the machine shop and I'm waiting to hear from them. I'm also fearful the engine may have to come out and go .080 over... The pistons on there now are stamped .060 and the cylinders have a little ridge at the top.
As of now, the plan is to get the rebuilt head, install, and check compression.

Anyone??
The head is at the machine shop and I'm waiting to hear from them. I'm also fearful the engine may have to come out and go .080 over... The pistons on there now are stamped .060 and the cylinders have a little ridge at the top.
As of now, the plan is to get the rebuilt head, install, and check compression.

Update: The machine shop has not done much to the head other than clean it and pressure check it. After getting back from our mission trip and vacations thereafter they answered my call and wanted to throw the book at the head: new springs, valves, seats, etc. I went in to discuss the options and the decision was taken to go with larger stem diameter exhaust valves and bore those guides to proper tolerance and keep the intake alone.
My wife made the decision not to return to work this school year and so now I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place. I have decided to clean out the cylinder tops with a ridge reamer and re-ring with .060 over rings (current overbore) along with a hone. With the head fixed and the new rings, I would hope it would run fine for at least a while. I need opinions on this as well as a source for .060 over rings, so as to not have to deal with bearings, pressing wrist pin off/on.

Welcome back- You're not stuck anywhere between rocks and stuff- keep charging with it. Buy your wife a shop manual to study, too.

What did they mean to "keep the intake alone"? I think you meant "leave" them alone??? 0.060 is your current status quo with the cylinders...staying 0.060; what size hone did they say get?

Usually shops would do some magnetic particle testing on the cylinder head ("magnafluxing") to check for cracks... they did this, right?

Brad

Thanks
It is my understanding they did magnaflux test it. The intake valves don't have the play that the exhaust valves did in the guides. Therefore, I decided (primarily for cost reasons) to leave them (intake valves and guides) alone. The pistons are currently stamped ".060" and the plan is to keep it there, again for cost reasons. I do not have any info on the size of hone as of yet (I'm all ears).

Hmmm... The fellas that have been around these engines a lot more than me will hopefully comment on the cylinder head predicament.

I do know I have been told not to replace one (Intake/exhaust valves) and not the other when doing a head rebuild. I know you just want to get on the road, and I can fully understand the cost issues, but wouldn't you rather wait & pay for a complete head rebuild- once?

BUT- your particular scenario is one I have not been involved with (doing exhaust & not intake valves/guides), so I'm all ears on this one as well. It could be an old school trick that everybody did.

Brad