The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Has your AD radiator frame been cut?

It's good advice to remove the radiator when pulling the engine from an AD (and maybe the others). In the old days, they made things even easier by cutting the radiator frames on ADs.

My '48 has been cut a few times and they didn't even weld it back the last time!

Radiator Frame Cuts.

I brought my '48 to an old-time mechanic and he said "Yea. That's the way we did it!"

Of the 31 AD carcasses that were once in a local junkyard, about half of the frames that were still there had been cut.

Has your radiator frame been cut?

Many of those radiator frames were cut to allow newer 235/261 engines to easily be installed without the fan blade hitting the radiator. The radiator could be installed inside the radiator-frame (moving the radiator forward, away from the fan). This was in the "just keep them running" times before the availability of a short-shaft water pump or Dave's water-pump relocation plate.

Bob Adler has an antique Chevrolet truck "storage yard" with at least 50 Advance-Design (47-55) trucks. I found only one radiator support that had not been cut (and with the radiator relocated).

Mine was cut- rather crudely. I had a frame from the wife's truck I nabbed when the front end went back together on mine. so I'll be in the market for a frame to replace the one I snagged....

Mine has never been cut.

Yes it has, and I thought I was the only one! Rather than 'cut' the welds of the top radiator support, mine were broken leading to a few broken brazes of the radiator attachment point on either side of the top.

I did think the reason was for engine installation, with the radiator and the top bar of the radiator support removed, it's clear sailing home!

Here in Kansas, I figure about 90% of them have been hacked to install the newer style 235/261 but the good news is, it's totally unnecessary.

We have access to water pumps, water pump adapter plates, and fans to make the newer style engine fit perfectly without ANY hacking of any part of the truck. You do what you have to do back in the day, but thankfully we have more information now. If it bothers you, it's fixable.

Mine has not been cut but the later 235 fan is VERY close to the rad. If I threw a fan belt I would have to pull the rad to change it. I would be happy to see another 1/4 inch and thought about moving the rad inside the frame. There are captive nuts on the frame which would have to come off. Apart from the pumps, adapters and cutting is there a way? I will not cut the frame.
If those captive nuts are chiselled off would the rad fight in without further modification?

Mine was cut on my '53 3/4-ton by someone years ago, presumably in order to replace the old 216 with a 235. Caused me a few problems as they canted the radiator which eventually caused the radiator to go bad and I then freeze-cracked the block and had to replace it. I believe the canted radiator was the cause as it didn't circulate water very well.

I'll wager the reason for most of the cut-off support tops was to facilitate removal and replacement of 216's without having to go through the misery of taking out the 43 million nuts, bolts and screws which hold the front clip on, and to prevent paint damage to all of those parts upon reassembly.
Carl

I have always taken the engine out by itself, removing everything behind it. I did that back in the day because I didnt know a book somewhere suggested differently. With the head off, all the back parts gone, it comes out without even taking the hood off.

I know why they did it here in Kansas. I have talked to many previous owners. It was to slide the radiator in between the mount channels to move it forward enough to get the newer engine in.

It was Pre68Dave who really showed me how to prevent that many many years later. The water pump you need runs about $130. Its a 53/54 216 water pump and uses the 216 fan. This short style pump is compatible with Daves water pump adapter plate.

So many people do not realize your newer style 235/261's fan is not centered (not even close) on the center of the radiator. If you look at a 216 you will see that style had the fan centered. It has caused many reports of cooling problems, thus the need for an adapter plate. Others have reported no problems at all.

If your truck is your pride and joy, save up for the correct parts and you will be very glad you did. The fan is no longer so close to the radiator, the fan is in the center so cooling is optimal, and your brackets and frame supports are not all hacked up.

i have a dozen or so a/d trucks.. i think 4 of them are still original..the rest were modified to move the rad forward..

Are we talking about the radiator support? The big "U" shaped part the fenders bolt to? Or are we talking about the flange on the radiator? No need to modify the support. The Radiator will fit into the inside of the support. About 3/4 to 1 inch forward of the stock location. You might need to trim the flange at the bottom to get it down far enough. I have. The best solution is still the plate and the 216 water pump. The fan is out of the way and the water pump is moved to the right place on the Radiator. Better air flow and a shorter engine. I have not seen a tilted radiator, but that is just me. 235/261 replacement was and still is a common "easy" upgrade to a bad 216. I have not tried to shove a 350, or a 292 into one so what do I know? What issue would trimming the flange cause? unless you want a 100% "stock" look. Then how are you gonna hide that 235?

Steve there is a cap across the top of the radiator support that makes it impossible to put a radiator in there without cutting it out. Most of them I have seen are spot welded.

Its easy to put an old style valve cover on the new engine. Its not perfect, but with the old style water pump with adapter which you can even get in a wider belt groove, you can come pretty close.

I've even seen some where they cut out the rad support cross braces. Thankfully that is just 3/8 round stock and can be made with little effort. That radiator support is made the way it is for several different stresses put on it from several different directions. That cap is important for side to side, the cross braces for twisting, etc.

What's done is pretty much done by now. Not alot of people anymore seeking out swapping from 216 to 235. When I find them I encourage them to do it right, and I fix every one I get my hands on. It was done out of necessity back in the day I suppose.

A little sheet metal shaping will get the clearance at the top of the radiator. No cutting is required. The side to side stiffening for the support is the crossed braces and the bottom splash plate. So not much is compromised. I have seen the piece cut. Don't know why but it can be fixed or replaced. My own general rule is to make any modification undoable. Someone may want to restore at some time. In all fairness, keeping it on the road, is the common goal. Good healthy 216 is a rare find indeed. A competent shop to re-Babbit the rods would be quite the surprise. So many available 235 engines make that the choice of many on a budget.

No Steve, I looked at it again today and there is no way a radiator is going in between those channels without taking off the entire top piece. Since every one I have seen is spot welded, you are either taking out the spot welds or cutting it out. So many people have never even seen a top piece because of this.

I put a '61 261 in a '37 by carefully cutting the mounting flanges off the rad and relocated them 1/2" rearward to get "comfortable" with fan clearance and belt change concerns. Also had to trim 1/2" off the air dam attached to the nosepiece and oblongate the rad neck hole a tad, no fuss no muss and I'm happy as a pig in poo!!