The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Interiors Headliner...

I have given the vender 10 business days after I talk personally to , and emailed pictures to Angie for a reply to my concerns, pro or con about a fitting problem with a headliner I purchased from them. I have not heard back in what I would say is a reasonable time, She has not even acknowledged my email

I cannot confirm that all venders buy from the same source so I am not going to blanket all headliners sold as deficient , but the one I bought from a vender prominently featured on this site did not fit as promised . If I need to elaborate further I can, and the vendor knows I plan posting on several websites. I have bought many other parts from this vendor with mixed results , but never this bad .

The vender and I never discussed refund , and only discussed return when I pointed out why pay 25 bucks to return a 40 part , it still does not solve the NEXT persons problem .

This is a 2 piece headliner advertised for a Panel Truck. Part # 21-48B

The headliner was centered with “V” in the front and the precut hole for the visor in the correct position, it was plenty wide enough as it overlapped the center strip by 2 inches, the problem was in the sides of the front piece . The strange thing is the back piece is extra long which is no problem as it can be trimmed to the correct size and fit well center to back with the light hole lined up correctly.

I feel the front piece is good only for a template and will re-cut and make my own , which I will also have to do with the back piece for uniformity .

I feel this is a Classic example of a company not addressing the concerns of a customer and expecting them to remain quiet.

Pictures HERE and HERE

I received poorly cut 1954 Suburban headliners from Jim Carter (over 10 years ago). I could have sent them back. I bet they still are cut short on the sides of the same pieces.

A majority of the many many parts I have bought from JC have been excellent. Their return policy is excellent.

The vendors are in a tough spot. They don't make the parts. What they don't want to do is open up the flood gates to refund everyone whoever received a somewhat imperfect product from the beginning of time, but at the same time they should feel a responsibility to their customers and refuse to sell parts which don't fit. Surely they must get enough feedback from unsatisfied customers for the same problematic parts. Maybe not. I am sure a lot of kooks call to complain about parts which are perfectly fine, more so than calls from polite and sane folks like most of us here on Stovebolt.

I have a good friend who has a close working relationship with one of the major vendors which is one of the sponsors of this site.
I have been intending to see about opening a dialog with this vendor for the purpose of providing input from folks on this site about specific problems with specific parts purchased from them in the recent past. The purpose being, to give them the opportunity to demand better quality control from the manufacturers of the parts, or to discontinue selling these bad parts.
Carl

I also bought a couple headliners from two of the major suppliers and neither of them fit to my liking.
I finally bought a liner from bowtiebits.com it was a near perfect fit.
Might be worth another try.

Neverdone,

Unfortunately reading your post gave me a "deja vu" moment. The way they treated you was exactly the same as in my experience...seems like a standard protocol of ignore, duck, and hide. There is one quite popular vendor I will NEVER use again as their business conduct was deplorable.

Paul

Peter ,
I went over to the bowtiebits.com site and looked around their site . They have some good prices and their headliner is made in America and $14 less than the one I bought that did not state where it was made . I AM going to take mine out and measure it , call up the bowtie people and see if it is different . I am also going to post that measurement here for others benefit .
Thanks
Dan

Please do that Dan, I've to a couple in the corner that won't
fit, I need two and I've got a couple of friends that are
looking as we speak.
And don't be shy about posting the name of a vendor whom you
had a bad experience with. That's not bashing them, that's the
only way the rest of us can avoid making a bad purchase. If
they're above board with their practices, then they've got
nothing to fear. Public relations isn't a one sided coin, if
you keep tossing tails then you're gonna be the looser.

dg

Back in 70's I made a headliner for my 1939. I took the original out, moistened the corners and flattened it out and used it for a template. Cut the new one from flat stock, moistened the corners and reformed it to fit. It held up very well over the years. I bought a new one from one of the vendors a few years back. I still had to moisten the corners to get it to fit properly. Tedious and nerve wracking.

Rick

Can't wait to here back on the fitment of the Bowtiebits.com headliner!

Denny ,

I guess I didn't want to flame , I did give it though ....the 6th word in the last line of my original post

Classic Parts

I still have not heard a word back from them , guess they do not care about their customers

Dan

Which "Classic Parts"?

American Classic Truck Parts

Classic Parts (of America - Truck Parts)

I've bought a bunch of parts from Bowtie Bits and never had a problem. I will say though they sometimes come across as unfriendly or not really caring if a sale is made.

TC
It was Classic Parts Of America http://www.classicparts.com/ 1-800-741-1678
Dan

I am also interested in hearing about the fit of the Bowtie Bits headliner.

I also wish they made a Suburban set.

I took out the headliner today after I made some measurements as to what to add if I make my own

I also took measurements of the one I took out HERE just so someone would know what DOESN'T fit. The circles are where the screws ended up going for the center bow strip , I did not put his measurement on there but it is 1 5/8th from the edge to the line in the center and about an inch of this could be removed as to better see where the screw install .

I am going to call Bow Tie Bits next week and see if they can give me some measurements of the one they sell before I buy one .. I may make the sacrifice for everyone and buy it anyway if they can't .I am going to tell them exactly why I need them and if it fits they are going to get a lot of free advertising , word of mouth and some steady business from this and other Chevy sites.

It is important to note that this liner came from Classic Parts of America and I have no knowledge of how liners fit from other venders.. I know Jim Carter hangs out here and maybe he can chime in.

Also if anyone else has a liner laying around they may ad their input and measurements to help.
Dan

Dan, thanks for this information. I have been holding off on buying one of these for all the reasons you and others have stated. I even considered fiberglass (ugh) but I don't even want to go there. I am going to check Bowties. Steve

Speaking of plastic, does the plastic headliner have the
contours formed into it or is it just flat like the
cardboard parts?

dg

I just got off the phone with the Bowtie site and have a headliner on the way .

I talked with Jeff, who is the purchaser, and explained the problem and got two stories as to how theirs were engineered , at first I was told it was patterned after an original headliner and then it changed to being stamped from GM engineered drawings , He actually was a little defensive towards the end of the conversation when I told him a was a guinea pig for this post .

I will keep you informed
Dan

I bought the headliner for my 46 from Bowtie Bits and it was perfectly sized. I have nothing to compare it to but I would but from them again for sure.

I've been checking out the forums under interiors and stumbled on this topic this morning just not sure why this is in the greasy spoon. I agree with the comments about naming suppliers.
I had a bad experience from a supplier in Penhold ( Scotts) who didn't think because I paid up front for brake parts that he should order the parts and waited a week to place the order. Needless to say when I called to check on the delivery date and was told he didn't order them I cancelled the order ( yes I got a refund) and after a couple of calls I had the parts ordered from KMS and sent from Lordco in B.C. the next day.
Between KMS Tools and The Old Car Centre in Langley B.C. I've had good results getting parts.
Just my 2 cents
Thanks Dan for the template picture and dimensions.

I am going to update ..

I CANCELLED MY HEADLINER ORDER WITH BOWTIE !!!!!!

When I was emailed my UPS Tracking info I was being charged $36 dollars to ship I called to find out what the method was . If it was being packed and shipped flat I believe the rate was responsible However they ship in the same 27X9X9 box that Classic does for $7.95

The purchaser Jeff told me that they have their headliners exclusively made for them . After some research and luck I found out that this company called MONTCO make makes the Headliners for both Classic and BOWTIEBITS !

As I said in my above post the contact man at Bowtiesbits , Jeff is very argumentative , and had a few not so nice comments about us at the Stovebolt , someone else here must have p*ss*d him off way before I talked to him today

ANOTHER UPDATE
Unlike the Bowtie people I had a very good conversation with Angie at Classic Parts Of America today about their headliner she has done the following

1]Brought the complaint to her supervisor in Parts quality / customer satisfaction

2] The situation was discussed with the supplier and a written response is do in 30 days

I will keep you informed and I am going to make my own
Dan

Do you have a link for MONTCO?

TC ,

I am still looking for a way to contact them directly , My information came from someone who told me and probably knew they shouldn't have and Angie at Classic confirmed that that is where they buy their headliners

The Google search for Montco is over powered with result for Montgomery Maryland so I need to try something else.

Where would one find the technical drawings / specs for this headliner ?

Dan

Well I'm getting lost here after three pages, not sure now
whether you are talking about the two piece cardboard headliners
or the single piece plastic ones?????
Could this Montco be the Montco Manufacturing in Hatfield, PA?
dg

I doubt it, Denny

That Montco sells weapons and other precision machined devices (as you most likely already know).

Denny ,

This discussion started when I questioned the quality of a 2 piece headliner for my 1953 One Ton Panel Truck That I bought from Classic Parts of America, and in general the indifference of the customer service of these venders when their customer's [us] complain. Once they have our money, several seem to address a complaint as the end users fault and take offense that we question the validity of their products ….. 99% of them probably drive Hybrids ……

I believe this thread has 2 goals

1] To find a vender that sells a headliner THAT FITS CORRECTLY , and this goes for all trucks on here

2] To let other Bolters know of Vender who sell sub standard crap parts an call them out and to let us know about the excellent venders who did not

The subject of this thread could probably support it’s on spot Stovebolt dedicated to Product reviews … Peg?

Dan

They do show up on some automotive sites on their list of
businesses that do work for them, Brodix for one, thought
they had something to do with gaskets and polyforming.

Your not going to find the specs you're looking for Dan, those
went in the dumper along with all the other drawing years
ago. Same as trying to find anyone that worked as a line
worker, engineer, etc., their all a thing of the past also. In
all the years I've been involved in restoration of
cars/trucks/radios/machines, I've never run into anyone that
was involved in any of the industries. I think they have to
sign a confidentiality agreement before they leave under
penalty of death.

I've reported on my experience with vendors a few time, but
there is a problem with that. One bad customer encounter can
really put the hurt on an other wise good business with the
possibility of hundreds of thousands reading it. The
intangible factor is personality. An oil and water mix of
vendor and customer often gives the wrong impression. Most of
the time, when we read a review, we can't tell which one was
the oil or which one was the water, sometimes both and
sometimes someone steps in as an emulsifier.
Many time the people I disliked when I first meet them turned
out to be best of friends after I learned more about them.

dg

I purchased my '48 Burb as a mostly finished but ongoing project. When I stripped the bamboo curtain off the inside roof I found a aftermarket 2 piece headliner of unknown origin under it. Very poor quality workmanship and about an inch short all the way around. Must be a fairly common problem that you would think a few well placed measurements and a key stroke or two could easily fix.
So what's my point? Measure twice before you order and call them out when it doesn't fit right. Maybe if enough of us complain loud enough a caring vendor will step up and get their manufacturer to fix the problem.

There is a new vendor to the Chevy truck scene. I have been buying Mustang parts from his company for 10 years now.

The company is NPD. I know Rick Schmidt personally and he will back his products, good or bad. He will go to all lengths to make sure the products he sells is of satisfactory quality.

His prices may not be the cheapest but he probably has more inventory than others.

I am going to forward this discussion to him and try to have him make some comments. I want others to meet him and find out he does what he says.

Wayne , What you are doing with Rick is exactly what I hoped to accomplish with this post , If just ONE vender would read this and sell a product that fit and stand behind it 100% they would corner the market and I would bet MY reputation recommending it to someone else , Tell Rick I will order one tomorrow if he stands behind it
Dan

O.K., thanks Wayne for hunting me down and plugging me in on this.

First off, some proactive honesty. Our new Chevy truck catalog is just that, brand-new... It's not as complete/extensive as we intend it to eventually be, and the product is not as vetted and sourcing not as refined as it will eventually be.

There's no way to test-install every single product in the course of researching a catalog, because A. you'd never have ready-access to all the various years/models/iterations of trucks, and B. if you did, it'd take you an entire lifetime test-fitting.

For instance, our Mustang and Camaro catalogs are extremely "mature" and refined/evolved, because from a sourcing and product standpoint, we've been identifying the winners and moving away from the losers for decades now.

With a brand-new catalog, we honestly can't have it all sorted-out instantly. But the KEY in this industry is exactly what's I saw alluded to earlier... Doing our best to listen, and doing our best to refine ongoing, such that we grow and improve the line. Sometimes, the "best" choice available is a crappy choice. We try to be honest with those choices, and we NEVER say "sorry, that's your problem Bub..". If you don't like it, and you haven't destroyed it in the process, we'll take it back. We try to be reasonable and ethical. If the part's destruction during installation attempt is understandable to a reasonable human being, then we'll work with you on that too... We draw the line when a customer gets the wrong part, paints it before test fitting, uses a sledge-hammer to try and install it, and then wants their money back, plus pain, anguish, and the cost of a new paint job.

I can't blab much more, I gotta get home. It's late.

Is the following the crux of the situation?


Here's the quick answer. We also are sourced to Montco for those headliners.

Dan, if you could, please email me ricks@npdlink.com with the details of the issue, and we'll circle-around to Montco (used to be called RePops, which may be a familiar name to some, formerly owned by Harvey Clark). We'll also see if we know of anyone else doing these headliners. Please copy tfanucci@npdlink.com as well, as he researched our Chevy Truck catalog.

All I can say is we'll look into it and take a shot, and see whether Repops is willing to revisit the item.

As I said, our catalog is new and "green" as heck. But as Wayne has experienced with our Mustang line, we try hard to listen and respond. And where there's no reasonable solution, we try to do right by honest people.

First post! I look forward to looking in from time-to-time if that's alright, and if the owners of the site are reading this, please email me as well, as we'd like to discuss opportunities on the site.

Thanks,

Rick Schmidt
NPD

WOW!!!
If all the vendors had this perspective...as Satchmo sang " what a wonderful world it would be". !!!

Rick ,

First I would like to say welcome to Stovebolt , Your first post was both impressive and a sign that you are willing to address an issue and possibly be part of the solution . There are a lot of multimillion businesses that did one product well , very few that did many poorly .

I will email you tomorrow [ 25 March 15 ] , thanks for agreeing to at least look at a problem that many before you ignored , the silence of the others will be noticed I am sure .

Dan

To continue on Denny's thoughts regarding "oil & water" personality clashes.
First let me clarify that my comments do not reflect what Neverdone went through with his vendor.
Just imagine the thousands of calls which a large vendor such as the one Neverdone had trouble with.
When you are dealing with random buyers from the Wild, Wild, World of Web, what percentage of these customers,
a) have the first clue what they are doing in terms of restoration?
b) are completely Looney Toons crazy?
Customer service is difficult enough with experienced restorers, but when you are over-run with internet kooks, I would imagine patience runs thin real quick.
So what can we do?
Rather than calling out a company based on the response from someone who is just payed to answer the phone, maybe we can reach out to the owners of major vendors and offer a specific list of troublesome parts with which we have all had problems. I am certain that any vendor would jump at the chance to gain that information.
Carl

You're correct Carl, we deal with plenty of folks who are going about things wrong, or not terribly adept, or are trying to fit a good part to a cobbled/bastardized/twisted machine, or haven't been in the hobby long enough to realize that restorations don't fall-together like jigsaw puzzles, even if you're working with 100% N.O.S. service parts.

So it's definitely not always easy to determine the validity or seriousness of a claim or problem. But you have to take a benefit-of-the-doubt approach.

Rick, you are welcome here, as is any other vendor. There are several that monitor the site and occasionally post.

To the Stovebolters, one thing to keep in mind - vendors are usually sourcing their parts from the same suppliers. (There aren't that many of them. In some cases there's only one source.) So, (and this is not a criticism of neverdone - he has a legitimate complaint), before you jump down a vendor's throat, try to work with them. They may not even be aware of the problem. Less than 10% of customers complain. Most just stop buying. So it's easy for a vendor to be blissfully unaware that there's a problem.

If I was a vendor and saw Neverdone's pics, I'd email them to the supplier and ask what the problem is. I'd also promise Neverdone that I would make it right, one way or another.

It's important, however, to give as much useful information as possible. For example, I can tell that Neverdone has the same headliner I do. It fits my '48 just fine. But what year is Neverdone's truck? I don't know. The vendor needs as much info as possible to track down the problem.

On the customer service side, if you're not getting good customer service, tell the vendor. Give him the name of the person you spoke to or dealt with. He may not even know he has that problem. Customer service is a completely different issue from parts quality. You can fire a bad employee. You may not be able to fire a bad supplier.

Communication is the key.

It should also be noted that Rick and NPD has temporarily suspended the sale of this headliner ......

Dan

I would like to see the dimensions of a headliner that fits my 53-3100. I bought one
a few months ago but am reluctant to put it in and find I have to do it all over again.
I bought mine from KMS in Vancouver who have been giving me good service but all they could do would be to replace it with another non starter. I hesitate to order from the USA and pay UPS an exorbitant shipping charge and then do it all over again.

The problem is that if a vendor takes the benefit-of the-doubt approach for all claims, and 80% of the claims come from internet-derived numb skulls and are indeed, not valid claims, they won't stay in business long.
Carl

It is refreshing to hear that we may get a vendor that is responsive to customer issues and product quality. In this hobby, I have had experiences where the customer service portion of the transaction was nearly non-existent to almost combative. I shop with several metrics in mind, namely: quality, technical support/communications, and price (in that order). If a vendor cant perform, I move on. A competitive market economy will kill off the poor performers.