The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Replacement Engine Pre-Install Punch List

Hi Everyone,

I've got a bunch of questions as I get ready to plan the engine swap that I need to do. But first, a little background: my truck is a 1953 3100. Right now, it has a 235 that is a 1957 vintage, based on the numbers stamped into the block. This engine does not run, as some of the lifters and pushrods are rusted in place and to each other. I found a replacement engine (a 235 from a 1961 Impala w/cast iron powerglide) that I got running (see earlier posts for those misadventures) and want to install in my truck. As I start to think about what I need to do to get ready, I've realized that I'll need to do some work to get the truck and engine ready for the transplant.

1. Water pump: After doing some research here, I realized that I had a water pump issue. Based on that research, I don't know which way to go (short shaft pump or adapter plate with correct year pump). I'm confused on which way to go here because I am thinking of using an electric fan, not the pulley based original fan. I had read somewhere that switching to the electric fan would give me a couple of horse power gain. Not sure if that is true or not? I'm also confused because the pump that is on the non-running engine appears to be one of the long shaft pumps. I'm guessing that whoever put that engine in the truck did some old school trick to make it fit. The radiator and mount appear to be unmolested.

2. I also realized that I have some holes to drill in the mounting plate or I need to replace it with an earlier one that is already drilled. I am wondering, if I have to remove the water pump, would I be able to drill the mounting holes from above? Right now, it seems like the only way to do the drilling, with the plate still installed on the engine is to access it from the bottom. Or am I wrong in trying to do the drilling with the plate installed?

3. 12v conversion: I've already decided to make the truck 12v and I'll be using an alternator. Those decisions will drive me to update bulbs and get resistors for the gauges. When I get to refurbishing the gas tank, I'll update the sending unit for 12v. The alternator that I'll use will have plenty of capacity for driving the electric cooling fan.

4. Removal of clutch/flywheel/bell housing for transplant to the new engine before installation into the truck. Can I reuse the throwout bearing? Is there something else in this area that I am overlooking?

5. ????

I know that I am not thinking of everything, so please, any help that you all can give me in figuring out what I am missing would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks!

It might help if you try to get a little more specific with your questions so the pros on here will know exactly what you're asking. (I don't know exactly what plate you are talking about, but I know I would not be drilling on it with it installed on the engine; it may be standard to do it that way, however)

You need a water pump, so I'd pick (short/long) whichever one required the least amount of modifications for your set-up. The electric fan & horsepower gain scenario- I have no idea how that would happen. I would go with an original set up with a pulley based fan.

That eliminates one electrical variable when you get to diagnosing problems later on.

As for the throw out bearing, if it spins freely it is fine.

There should be no problem with converting to 12V engine-wise. I think 57 & 61 were already 12V, but if you already got the 61 engine running with the generator--maybe hold off on the alternator swap?. Your priority sounds like it should be the water pump for now. Good luck with it!

Brad

Sorry for the lack of specifics. I'll try to elaborate.

The mounting plate is referencing the engine mounting plate that the front motor mount bolts through. Because the later engine used side motor mounts, the front plate is not drilled out. I want to use the 1953 style motor mounts, so the plate will have to be drilled to accommodate the bolts.

The horsepower "gain" was supposed to be due to the loss of drag created by the fan spinning. The engine does not have to turn the fan, so the energy can go to driving the wheels, not the fan. The electric fan will not be an issue for the 12v alternator.

The running engine already has the generator removed and an alternator installed. It is running on the test stand in that configuration. I also have a 12v electric fan wired into the test stand fuse block with a simple toggle switch. As the engine warms up, I can turn on/off the electric fan. It does a good job of keeping the water temp around 180 degrees. This particular fan is not the permanent solution, though. It too came from the junkyard, off a 1990's Honda Civic. It just happened to have the form factor that fit with the older radiator and the price was good.

As to what's left, I was trying to keep the thoughts to a high level, not a step by step punch list. I know that there is a tech tip on doing the swap and I've read it. I was more interested in eliminating any surprise areas, that I might not have thought about. For example, knowing that I need to address the water pump, lead me to research/think about all of the details surrounding replacing the water pump (ie, new water pump, adapter plate, replace the harmonic balancer, etc). Once I know that there is an area to think about, I can research the topic and/or ask specific questions. This is one of those cases where I don't know enough to ask the right questions...yet.

Once again, thanks for any help that everyone can offer.

Hy Gray_Ghost,
1. you say the non running engine is already using the longer water pump that came with the later engines and that everything was in place with no interference problems, so just use the stock pump for the latest transplant engine, it sounds like someone before you has "adjusted" things to make the longer water pump work.
2.drilling the existing mounting plate to match the pattern on the older ones would probably be easier than installing a drilled one. If you drained the coolant and oil you could turn the engine on its side on the stand and drill the plate from the side.
3. the fuel gauge sender does not care which voltage is used with it, it is merely a variable resistor.
4. you may reuse the throwout bearing if it is not too loose and noisy. You will have to install a new pilot bushing in the end of the crankshaft if it came with an automatic previously, I think all the crankshafts were drilled for a bushing, you better check before you get too far.
Hope that helps.

Mike, no need to apologize -I just noticed no one had responded & I was soliciting more help for you. I understand now we're not talking about a water pump mounting/adapter plate drilling task...

So, keep asking questions, and that's a cool blog to keep up with your progress & truck parts.

Brad

Mike,

I have to warn you about your electric fan/toggle switch configuration. I did the same on an old Datsun years ago. The problem is that once in a while you will forget to flip the switch and inadvertently over heat your engine. I never blew up the old Datsun engine, but I did make it spew like a geyser a couple of times. If you go that route, research a method to incorporate a water temperature switch.

Also, it sounds as though the previous owner has figured out the water pump length issue as both the 57 and 61 engines have the long water pump. You may just need to swap over those items from the dead 57 engine.

Paul

Thanks Everyone for the responses, so far. Using the already adapted water pump would be great. I'm really strapped for cash and anywhere I can save a buck is awesome. That's one of the reasons I do so much shopping at the junkyard.

I do have another question about the water pump setup, though. I read in other threads here that the stock harmonic balancer from the passenger cars was too large a diameter for use in our trucks. Is that because it spins the fan too fast or is there some issue with cavitation of the coolant? If I go down the electric fan path, then the speed of the old fan is no longer an issue, as it will be removed. Cavitation is another issue though. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

I recently read the post that Deve made regarding rebuilding a 235. It was very timely as he has a whole section on drilling out the motor mount plate. It looks very complicated to get those holes in the right place. I'm still wondering if doing the motor mount plate swap might be easier. It also seems clear that doing the drilling from underneath is a non-starter. So I'll have to do something like turning the engine on its side or maybe upside down. Anyone tried to do the drilling with an intact engine?

That's all I can think of right now. I'll ask some more questions about prepping the truck/engine as I think of them. Once again, thanks for the help and ideas. Also, thanks for the compliment on the blog. I'm trying to document what I do/what happens as I do it. I'm a total noob when it comes to all of this. So for me, everything is a learning experience. I'm hoping that down the line, someone else like me (a noob) will be able to read my blog and get ideas about what worked and what didn't. Maybe save them some time or frustration. I'm not planning to make it anything fancy, just informative (hopefully).