The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Tool Chest Speaking of Stripping Rust and Paint.

Tain’t a Stovebolt, but good enough to test the new bath.
I was browsing an antique mall Monday and ran across this Stanley plane
on a junk shelf. Thought it would be a good test for the Milkstone remover that I picked
up at the Tractor Store. :
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/159262400
The bath; Milkstone Remover and Acid Rinse.
Mix solution of 1part acid:6part water:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/159262401
This is what it looks like bubbling away after 15minutes:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/159262402
30minute soak and it’s good enough for a few minutes at the wire wheel:
http://www.pbase.com/dennygraham/image/159263227
Not bad for a $3.85 80 year old junk plane.
But……..the point is the gallon of Milkstone Remover will only run you $13 and it would
make 6-8-10 gallons of bath depending on how strong you wanted to make it and how
fast you wanted it to work. I would imagine that you could mix a 10:1 batch and leave
your parts in overnight and it would still work pretty good. A lot better and cheaper than
Evap-o-rust or apple cider or molasses or electrolysis. And since it won’t remove tiny
detail like sandblasting does, your restoration will look factory new after stripping and
painting.
In the higher concentrations and longer soak time I’ve found Phosphoric acid will lift the
paint also

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

One more option to add to the war chest. Thanks

That's good price for a gallon of phosphoric acid.

What do you do with the acid when it stops working?

Add a base to it.
dg

Denny, Since you actually bought a labeled gallon of Milkstone remover... would you mind telling what types and proportions of acid are in your gal.?

My understanding is it's a mix of Phosphoric and Nitric Acids @ approx 28%/V.

As for neutralizing... Water is a base.

Also, acid doesn't stop working unless neutralized.

Water has a ph of 7 and is therefore neutral. Water will dilute acid, but in order to neutralize acid, you will need a material with a ph higher than 7.

depends on what water, there's a lot of variation around the country, aside from the fact that when water is exposed to atmospheric CO2, carbonic acid is formed

Bill

This is why I never use chemicals for paint stripping. Take a cab for example. Use chemical solvents that seep into places like the rain gutter, or any spot weld anywhere. Now, once the paint is off and you are all happy, learn to be sad again, because that chemical that you used is dried and dormant in those hard to reach places, that really are totally impossible to guarantee you got all of it.

So then primer over it, feel good about it, then a few years later after any condensation or water hits it and it starts to deteriorate your precious paint job. Maybe I am being overly paranoid, but I sleep better just using blasting techniques. That Stanley Plane is a beautiful thing, and with #1 (almost like flour) Silica sand or something better (on very low pressure), not one striation, or one small infinitesimal feature is harmed in any way.

I understand the beauty of chemical stripping and why people would desperately want that to work, but it just doesn't for the reasons stated above. So, if you have a single piece of metal with no spot welds, no oddities of any kind, by all means strip it with chemicals. If you don't, pay the same price so many others out there have paid. I just don't earn enough money to re-do my restorations every few years due to paint being eaten from the inside. Don't take my word for it, there are any number of sites that caution about this very thing.

Its how I roll. Others have opposite opinions. It's just something I don't have to think about. Other stuff to do!

Right Carl, a base, anything higher that a pH of 7.
Pure water is 7. Drinking water or ground water can
range from 6 to 8.5.
The Milkstone remover that I'm using does not contain any
Nitric Acids.
http://www.stearnspkg.com/hfa/f-sterosol-milkstone-remover-and-acid-rinse.html

Had the entire front clip of my '50 chemical striped up in
Union Grove, Wis. about seven years ago and painted it about
a year later. Still ain't seen any paint problems yet. When
do you think it's gonna he me Deve? I've only got 28 more
years left so it better hurry up and start peeling or I'm
gonna miss it.

Like anything else, if you do a half arsed job of prepping you
will have problems, if you treat it properly you won't.

I've been using chemical aircraft stripper for almost half a
century and have never had a problem, again, if you take your
time and clean it well, no problem.

To each his own, some people are happy with just sanding off
the old paint where they can get to it, and that's just fine
also.

DG

So would you use water, regardless of what part of the country it comes from, to neutralize acid?
Carl

I am not being argumentative Denny. I admire you for various reasons. Your work is impeccable. To say that you dont know what you are doing would be idiotic.

I am just saying that most people wouldnt be able to get rid of the residue and would end up having serious problems with their paint. The actual numbers stated on a few high profile paint sites is about 2 years to their demise. Just because you are one of those very few who I consider genius doesnt mean the populace should consider themselves as such. I am one of those who WOULD screw it up. No matter how hard I would try, in two years or less my paint job WOULD come apart. Since I consider myself AVERAGE among the human populace, it scares me to think how many people would take your advice. Now maybe I am giving myself more credit than I deserve and I am below average. No idea, all I know is, chemical strippers in the hands of your average restorer means assured destruction. Ask the populace on several paint forums out there. Dont take my word for it. Its taboo for a reason.

Everyone who knows you for any amount of time admires you to no end. You have a very clear mind and someone who uses more of his brain than most. But sadly, not all of us are as enlightened as you are. Some of us just haven't walked in your shoes and don't have the experience to do what you do. So why would you promote chemical stripping when you KNOW that? I am not really speaking to Denny. I am speaking to all of YOU! Be careful with the knowledge you get here. Try things only if you are willing to suffer the consequences.

There is no doubt Denny knows what he is doing. Thats all I am saying. Think about it.

This type of banter is what I look for in a forum. Differing opinions based on individual knowledge/experiences. It is healthy and really helps people make informed decisions. The reason I like this forum so much.
Steve

Re: Acid neutralization after stripping...
You can look up PPG's or SPI's instructions and they all say rinse with H2O.
That doesn't mean the next day. While it's wet.
You CAN wait but then you MUST reapply the 'acid based product' so it can reactivate the crystallized [dried] molecules in the pores of the metal. Rinse while its wet and your good to go.

Ospho (my simple catch all name for any Phosphoric acid prep) works great.
Surface rust will/may show up right away but if you hit that with a scuff pad it stay's clean for months if kept dry and free of condensation
How do I know? Personal experience.
I have a friends Springer front fork sitting in my garage now that will testify to the fact. For four months now, 2 miles from the Pacific and not a trace of rust showing.

Where "Most" people would get it screwed up is in not taking the time to do the work 'meticulously'.

Now even if I sand blast a piece I hit it with 'Ospho' then wash it with Hot H2O and then the shop vac to dry for final prep.

Tried using a methylene chloride product sold at one of the big box lumber stores to strip the dash removed from the '46 project. It's nasty stuff that comes with usage warnings about inhalation and skin contact hazards. The results were amazing. The removal to bare metal was fast. I don't think I'd use it for anything other than surfaces that can be completely accessed with disposable rags or newsprint paper.