The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Fuel injection for my 235.

Thanks for the update!
Do you have any new and interesting pictures?

Just got through testing one of the wildest idea's I have ever had and it works great. While road testing and tuning the EFI system on my truck we experienced a cold weather drivability issue. We made several changes to the tune and every time we backed out of the garage and took off it was fine, but within a 1/2 mile or so the problem would return. We decided to return to a tune that we had used on an earlier test session that had worked fine. Same results. This was a particularly cold night and we finally decided that the intake manifold was too cold. What was happening is when we pulled into the heated garage to program a new computer chip the intake would heat soak from the engine block so when we fired up for another test drive it would run fine until the manifold chilled down again. It seems I had underestimated the importance of manifold heat. I am using an Edmunds manifold that has a steel tube cast into it for running engine coolant through to heat the manifold. Since I am using that cavity to run my idle air supply through that is no longer an option. Then I had this crazy idea that I could use some diesel engine glow plugs to heat the manifold. It works! Please excuse the wiring. It is only temporary. Also, I am going to use glow plugs with a threaded stud to attach the wire. That should make it a little less obvious.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0188.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0181.jpg

What amperage draw?

Smart thinking!
I expect you'll use the computer to cycle them as needed, will they be integrated into the system?

Grigg

They are 10 amps each. We are going to use the Air Injection Reactor circuit to control them. They will be on when the coolant temp is below 160 degrees or the inlet air temp is below 80 degrees.

Sounds like a plan,
I'll upgrade my earlier comment to "Really smart thinking!"

Grigg

Some pictures of the IAC motor hidden in my homemade air cleaner.

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0202.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0204.jpg

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Attached are some pictures of the fuel injection wiring harness during assembly. My friend Greg who is an EE is doing all of the wiring. I hope the pictures are detailed enough that you can appreciate the beautiful job he is doing! Each wire is carefully routed and trimmed to length. They will then be terminated and wrapped with loom tape (no split loom) to match the OEM harness which he also rewired. The entire harness can be unplugged and removed from the truck without cutting any wires. Greg generated a complete schematic for the project before any wire was run. The drawings look like they came out of a GM service manual. Every wire is labeled with description, color, and size.

[IMG]http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/2010-02wiringharness1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/2010-02wiringharness2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/...%20injection/2010-02wiringharness3-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/...%20injection/2010-02wiringharness4-1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/...%20injection/2010-02wiringharness5-1.jpg[/IMG]

Below is a link ( I hope ) to a slide show of the entire project so far. Some of the pictures are no longer relevant because some of my ideas did not work or we thought of a better way of doing it.

http://s532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/?albumview=slideshow

The fuel injection harness is done, installed, and tested. Works great!!!

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0270.jpg

http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0274.jpg

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http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Hank%20fuel%20injection/DSCF0280.jpg

Great job!

I love the set up & wish I had the knowledge & tools to do something like that.
MMMMM, does this mean "kits' will be come available????
HERE's the link so everyone can watch it as a slide show. diceman, I hope you don't mind.
It would be great if you could add captions to the pics to give us an idea what's going on...joe

Wow! Newb here reading every post on 235's on this here forum...Yours popped up and I gotta say that what you've done is absolutely fantastic! I'd love to see a vid posted with it starting, running at idle with a couple blips of the throttle and then a cut away to a full throttle pull to 65...Pretty please?

Thanks, if I can figure out how to do the video thing I will try to oblige you.

Nice work Diceman, Nice work.

On to phase II - New engine
My 235 fuel injection project is done!!! Although we are still troubleshooting a noisy VSS signal and fine tuning the VE tables I am officially declaring this phase of the project successfully completed. The truck starts, idles, and drives beautifully. A/C, cruise control, and overdrive are all working great. We have logged almost 3000 miles while testing. With my friend Greg's help we were able to overcome several unforeseen problems including Idle Air Control (IAC) volume and distribution, manifold heat( or lack thereof), fuel distribution strategy, and we even found a couple of GM computer software glitches. Though it was difficult at times it was also a lot of fun and very satisfying overall. Without Greg's help and knowledge of the GM computer this project would not have been possible. He even wrote some custom software code to allow the computer to control the Gear Vendors overdrive and the electric manifold heaters.
I hope ya'll enjoyed reading about it.

Sure did!
Thanks for the info and update.

Grigg

"UPDATE"
Just a quick update on my project. I have put 6000 miles on my truck since the conversion to fuel injection. Overall I am very happy with the performance. Start up, idle, and drive-ability are great. The only disappointment is fuel economy. Gas mileage is 15-16 mpg and identical to the carb. Technically the mileage is slightly better than before since I added AC at the same time. I guess it is a little greedy to expect better performance and better gas mileage while adding air conditioning. There is probably some mileage improvement available by fine tuning the VE tables. But, since I am planning on installing a supercharger this winter we decided to wait until then to do so.
The truck is down right now for a complete brake and suspension rebuild. It runs a lot better than it stops and handles.

"Another update"

Almost 10K miles with only one significant problem. It goes through oxegen sensors fairly often. I don't think it likes the way I mounted it. I put it in the Fenton manifold heat transfer port which has a slight upward slant. I read somewhere that is a no no because condensation will collect in it. I have not bothered to correct the problem because I am going to install my McCullough supercharger this winter and I will correct it then.

Since I will have to make major changes to my tune up to deal with the boost I am thinking about changing from the GM computer to a Megasquirt. Does anyone have any experience with them?

Also I am looking for a "261" to put in at the same time. Anyone know where I can get one? Preferably in West Texas.

Thanks

"15000 mile update"

Well another summer has come and gone and I still have not installed my McCullough supercharger. I'm having too much fun driving it. Oh well, maybe this winter.

One of the objectives when we began this project was to use OEM components as much as possible for reliability ease of finding replacements. This strategy proved worhwhile about a month ago when the engine suddenly started missing and backfiring through the exhaust. The truck could hardly keep moving so I turned off all the accessories trying to coax it home. When I turned off the AC it instantly started running fine. It continued to run great even when I turned the AC back on. Over the next few days it started acting up more and more. The only way to get running properly was to turn off the AC and/or kill the engine and restart it. I could not think of any reason the AC system would cause this so I checked the fuel pressure, ignition timing, and electical system. Everything checked out fine. Even though there was no service engine light or codes set I started to suspect the ECM. Since the unit I was using was an Ebay special and I could hear some strange clicking sounds from it I decided to replace it. So I removed it from the truck and pulled my chip out and headed to Orielly's. Well for $59 exchange I had a reconditioned unit and all is well.

Thanks,
Ron

Ron, Great thread! You have done what I have wanted to for a long time and after reading your entire thread, getting 19 mpg with my 390 Holley, I am not going to pursue the awesomely aesthetic path you went down. I do have a newer digital Projection system that I may install, but won't look nearly as cool as yours. Good job!

I like it. Thanks for documenting the build and the updates. Jim. Anything to make it more reliable, economical to drive routinely is my kind of mod.

Thanks for the kind words. We have continued to tweak the tune and with over 22,000 miles on the system it is running better than ever.

Update: With almost 24000 miles on the truck since the EFI conversion the truck is still running great. I have no idea how many total miles are on the engine but it runs fine and doesn't smoke at all, however it does have a significant oil leak and I have been searching for a 261 to put in it for some time. I finally found one last week about 10 blocks from my house. I dropped the engine off at the machine shop on Monday to see if it is rebuildable. If so I plan to chronicle the install of it and my Mculloch supercharger on this site. Plans are for a performance rebuild with a blower friendly cam. My friend Greg is working on a fueling strategy for the new blown engine. Hope to have something to report shortly.

Good news!!! The 261 that I found recently is a go. Plans are for a .040 overbore on the block, some mild bowl work on a 235 head, a vintage McCulloch supercharger, the current EFI system (reprogrammed for the blower), and a blower friendly hydraulic cam. The goal is to maintain or slightly increase torque way down low and build max torque at 2500 RPM which is cruising RPM at 75 MPH. Maximum blower pressure will be 5-6 PSI. With the 3.90 rear gear, gear vendors O/D, and 31" tires the truck struggles at freeway speeds when a hill and/or a headwind is encountered. Since I live in the land of 75 and 80 MPH speed limits I hope this combo will allow the truck to cruise more easily at those speeds with some reserve to handle the hills and wind and possibly tow a trailer. I hope to start building the engine in the next couple of weeks.

Ambitious project. Keep us informed. Thanks for the information so far. It is fun to see some one work out the issues and come up with a working project.

looking forward to the next phase of the project

Well, I had hoped to have my new 261 engine and McCulloch supercharger installed and tuned with several thousand miles on it by now. However, as you know life happens. The clutch went out on the truck several months ago and I was going to wait until I installed the new engine to replace it. But, Greg my fuel injection tuner has already done the new operating system with a 2 bar map sensor for the supercharger and he wants to test it on the old engine to make sure it works. So, this past weekend I installed a new clutch and a different transmission and revised part of the exhaust system. It's good to have the truck back on the road again and I am happy to say that the new computer operating system is working great albeit without any boost.

Today I decided to work on my old McCulloch VS 57 supercharger which is going to require a total rebuild and conversion to a SN (short nose) configuration.

[IMG]http://i532.photobucket.com/albums/ee330/diceman50/Supercharger/20141214_150816.jpg[/IMG]

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Great work on the truck engine. Can't wait to see how it runs with the supercharger. Jim

While waiting for my supercharger parts I decided to modify an old turbocharged Corvair air cleaner that I have to use on this project. The plan is to use the high pressure area in front of the windshield for a little extra supercharging and a cool air source. The mods consisted mostly of turning the oval inlet snorkel 90 degrees and giving it a slight angle so the unit can be mounted vertically. I am going to enlarge the outlet to 3 1/2 inches to match the supercharger inlet, but I don't have any tube right now.

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/aircleaner1-1.jpg.html?sort=9&o=7

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/aircleaner4.jpg.html?sort=9&o=11

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/aircleaner5.jpg.html?sort=9&o=12

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/aircleaner6.jpg.html?sort=9&o=13

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/aircleaner8.jpg.html?sort=9&o=15

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/aircleaner9.jpg.html?sort=9&o=16

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/aircleaner14.jpg.html?sort=9&o=21

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/aircleaner13.jpg.html?sort=9&o=20

I finished the air cleaner on Friday by making a flange to mount it to the firewall and a clamp and brace. I had to modify my original design because I couldn't mount it as low as I originally wanted to.
Following is a link to some pictures if anyone is interested.

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/slideshow/Supercharger/air%20cleaner%20done

I also received my supercharger rebuild kit from Craig Conley at Paradise Wheels. They purchased the rights to the McCullough and Paxton superchargers from Paxton Automotive and sell complete Paxton units as well as parts. Craig has been very helpful and quick to respond to my questions. The rebuild kit is high quality and very complete and even has new springs for the ball drive plate which I didn't expect. I also bought a new improved impeller and a drive pulley. I started by replacing the springs in the ball drive plate. More pictures.
http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/slideshow/Supercharger/supercharger%20slideshow

Nice. What kind of boost will the McCullough put out? Nice fabbing on the air filter.

Thanks eagleuh1,

My research indicates they will make about 4-7 PSI or 40 to 70 HP. This depends on engine size and blower speed. Since my goal is to make the truck more comfortable to drive at freeway speeds and not maximum horsepower my target is 4-5 PSI.

That sounds good. Enough to help out with an overdrive tranny. And AC .

I like your FI set-up and have thought about doing something similar only port injection instead of TBI. One thing I was surprised about was you fuel mileage. I would expect a little better maybe in the 18-19 mpg. I thought maybe the Tecumseh/York/Ford compressor was holding you back. Maybe a low power usage variable displacement compressor would improve your mileage. The latest design compressor's use up far less horsepower and performance is better. Anyway just a thought. Great job on your set-up.

Thanks lcfman,

I agree a modern compressor would be more efficient and probably help the mileage, but I intentionally used a Tecumseh for the looks. I am trying to make the truck look like a survivor from the 60's. Except for some of the sensors it does a pretty good job. The mileage has improved since I originally wrote that because we have done some more MAP tuning and changed the fueling strategy. I too considered going with port injection. Actually the computer we are using is for a TPI engine as are the injectors. But, I decided I couldn't hide the injectors enough to maintain the old school style I was after.
Good luck with your project.

I finished my supercharger conversion and rebuild today. It was pretty straight forward and without any real surprises. Unfortunately I had a camera malfunction so there aren't many pictures of the actual assembly.

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/forum1.jpg.html

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/media/Supercharger/forum2.jpg.html

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COOL, i see these at the swap meets regularly, all ways wondered if you could get rebuild parts. I have a 270 gmc with a 471 on it runs great. I'm building a 31 chevy pickup with a 270 right now and would sure like to try one of these.

Well, I finally got my 261 back from the machine shop. Then I promptly left town for nearly a week to attend the Barrett Jackson auction in Scottsdale. Unfortunately on the way home I caught some kind of cold/flu bug and was out of commission for another week. I have been trying to catch up on some other projects ever since. Now I am waiting for some warm weather so I can give the engine block a thorough cleaning with hot soapy water. Still waiting for the camshaft.

Following is a link to some pictures.

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/slideshow/261%20engine

Your photo bucket link says its private.

Sorry about that. Try this.

http://s532.photobucket.com/user/diceman50/library/261%20engine