The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay Non start on 235 has me stumped. Need help

My 51 with '57 235 died on me the other day, and I've been troubleshooting the system, but still haven't got it to start, and I'm stumped. The battery was dragging too quickly, and after putting it on the charger overnight, it was still not getting it done. Replaced the 5 year old batt with a new NAPA. After no luck there, I checked all the connections, put new fittings on some, cleaned all connections, then checked the distributor points, which were a little too tight, and I set them at .018. Still no luck. I then checked the coil for spark, and got none. Ohmed both primary and secondary coils in it, and it was shot. Changed the coil just now, but it still won't start. Cranks like crazy with the new battery, but no start. So I checked for spark at a plug (which looks nearly new), to the block, but not a bit of spark there(???). I've followed the main and resistor/coil wire back to the dash, and the main is feeding up to the amp gauge like it's never been off, and the smaller wire to the resistor looks good at the key switch, as far as I can tell. What else is there to check? I once found that a weak coil was the culprit in a jeep when I couldn't think of anything else. The only other thing that I can see on this system that looks like it's been there from the beginning is the condenser at the voltage regulator box. Could the regulator (which looks shiny and new inside the box) or it's condenser be responsible for a no-start? If so, what's the procedure for troubleshooting these items? It'll be a learning experience for me. Thanks for any and all ideas or opinions, hopefully asap. (I'm ready to get this thing inspected and licensed, and sell my 10mpg dually!)

condenser on the VR is for radio noise suppression, charging system won't affect starting, nothing to do with ignition .... did you check for voltage at both sides of the ignition resistor? check continuity [resistance] of the resistor? check for voltage at the coil input when cranking? check for spark between points with ignition on?

Bill

Manually turn the engine over until the points are closed.
Turn the ignition on.
Push the point contacts open with a screwdriver with a nice spark-proof handle, and look for a decent spark as the points open.
If no spark at the points, you will need a test light or multimeter, and start testing for voltage moving from the coil towards the the ignition switch.
Do you have a ballast resistor? They can go bad and leave you with no spark.
C

Jump the coil. Clip a wire from batt pos to coil pos. Squirt some gas in carb. If it starts unclip and turn key off.

I'll try all these first thing in the morning. (Got dark on me, so I came in to check the forum) Spent the last couple of hours tying up the loose ends on the heater and wiper system, so at least I got something done. I was really hoping that bad coil was the problem, and hoping it's the ballast resistor. [cheap fixes are good at Christmas time- especially after finding out how much my wife spent in the last 24 hours on kids and grandkids presents.] Worst thing about doing this one thing at a time is the 20 mile round trip to the parts store. Bummer. Thanks, guys, I'll let you know tomorrow how this is progressing.

Assuming "no start" means "no fire": If the resistor was bad it would still fire, because of the bypass, and then die. If no start means it fires but won't start....... Gotta know which. Sometimes people say won't start when it won't crank. Not in this case. Won't start has at least 3 possible meanings to various people. (my wife). Check wire from Dizzy to coil neg is still tight in/on dizzy terminal. Check to see that rotor is turning and not otherwise broken.

Tips from 52 Carl and bartamos are good ones. The voltmeter is your friend. You can check the ballast resistor, should be around 4, to 5 volts dropped across it. Easy check is from the ignition switch to the "hot" side. Should be 12 Volts to ground. From the side to the coil + terminal to ground, about 9 Volts. Both measurements with the points closed. On the coil - terminal with the points open, You should get close to the volts on the + side. Close the points and the - terminal should drop to 0 volts. With the jumper wire it should start even if the ignition switch is bad. It will start if the ballast resistor is bad. To check the condenser in with the points, turn off the ignition, open the points. Put the meter in the Ohms function and use the highest scale you have. Should be 100K. Put the meter on the - side of the coil, and ground. Watch the reading it should scale up to infinity. That is your meter charging the condenser. When it is charged, it will read open. If the reading is 0 ohms with the points open, you have a short in the wire from the - terminal to ground. Look at the plastic insulator and wire where it goes into the dizzy. You can fix this. Take one step at a time. Simple truth, problems are almost always simple, finding them can tax the brightest. Enjoy.

Good news is I figured out the problem. After checking it at the dist. points for fire (there wasn't any), I checked the resistor and it checked good. I went ahead and checked the ignition switch, and for a while I was sure the switch was bad, because the readings were bouncing between hot and dead at the wire connection to the ballast resistor. Anyway, after looking up parts to buy and resting my back from under dash work, I went back out and decided to check the wire between the switch and the resistor. The ohm meter said it was a bad wire, so I jumped a new one from the switch, turned the key and it purrs like a kitten. One little wire. It's still inside the original wire harness for it and the ammeter wire, so I left it alone and will use the jumper as a temp til tomorrow when I can run good wire right. Thanks for all the suggestions. Some I got to, and some I didn't have to get that far. It's running, and that's what I wanted. At least I know my points are correct, the wires and connections are clean, a lot of previous crap wire is removed, and I've got a new battery and coil, to boot. Almost had a new switch, and might still get one just for good measure. License office, here I come- on Monday.

Good news, enjoy

Great news that the problem was solved and the rig is running again.

Just a little comment on one of the posts...the points are only switching battery voltage, 6 volts or 12 volts so there should be no fear that a blinding coil charge will knock you on your butt when you pry them open, and with a good condenser there shouldn't be much of a spark at all.

Stuart

Thank you for the info on the shock hazard. I will continue to use a well insulated screwdriver for the test however. I do not trust electricity in any form. It wasn't until fairly recently that I even believed in electricity at all. I threatened not to pay the electric bill once, as I never saw it.
Carl

It is like fear of the unknown.

I once got slammed by a blinding coil charge knocking me on my butt. It was during my misspent youth in the 60s. I do not remember much of those days/times/events, but I remember that shock.

So, I was simply holding the wrong part of that screwdriver?

It is good to see you posting again, Stuart.

Thanks for the info. I've been bitten too many times to not watch out for shocks. (happens anyway sometimes)