The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Smokin' 235 - fix, swap, or drive?

I have a '47 1 ton with a '48 235 that smokes bad on take off from stop lights and some at idle. Assuming it has to come out for rings, valves, or head gasket, should I (a) bite the bullet and pour more money into a re-build; (b) swap the '48 for a full pressure '54-'62 235 or a 261; or (c) just buy oil by the case and keep driving it?

The smoke is pretty bad. I didn't really notice until got a new muffler with a pipe out the side. I'm now measuring mileage by miles per quart of oil, instead of gas. Can you guys give me ball park costs for re-builds or swaps? Oil by the case is pretty cheap; you just don't want to follow me.

Any advice appreciated.

Dave

I believe that engine is a babbit-pounder. Whether it's worth a rebuild is a matter of opinion, but I'd say no. Get a pressure-feed (54-up) motor, put it in. Or a GMC, 261, etc. Or a V8. ;-)

George

FYI there is a shop in Spokane Wa that claims to be experts on babbit engines. Ram engine on Freya, they have an 800 number so they'll give you a free phone qoute. As a heads up, I did have a little trouble last time I dealt with them (shipping issue), but no trouble with the engine they built for me. Good luck!

Replace it with something that has pressure oil!

Or, I have a '47 216 that I'd be happy to sell you. If you'll come here and take it out you can have it.

Should I expect you Saturday?

Hey, thanks a lot. I'll leave for Seattle just as soon as I get the long bed filled with cases of oil. From Colorado at about 5 miles per quart expect me sometime in March. You'll be able to see me coming from the long con-trail.

Okay, so at the risk of exposing my ignorance, why is pressure oil better than the splash oil or whatever system the old 235s and 216s have?

Dave
47 1 ton
Boulder, CO

And another thing. I know a babbit is a bearing but why do they pound, and why don't I want them?

Thanks, Dave

Re-direct the exhaust to the back, That way people won't tail gate that old slow truck

"I didn't really notice until got a new muffler with a pipe out the side."

I've got a 47 one and half ton with a dump bed. It has a 216, burns oil but all depends on how much you drive it? slight burn or mosquito control? They might thank you because of the Wes Nile in our area... HA HA

Brent in Fort Collins

Martin Supply and Salvage in Windsor has bunches of these trucks. I don't know what they charge for engines. You pull it pretty sure...
970-686-2460

Also Riverside Truck and Auto in Greeley. I don't know what they have but old timers...
1-800-423-4862

They would be cores only I'm sure.

Brent

If you rebuild it is no big deal to shim the rods just takes time, one look will tell you if you can shim without repourng the babbit, and mains have inserts at least my 51 did a 216 came in it, original is original
. Get a chevrolet service manual for your year ,I found one on ebay $20 there is no end to the decision you have to make, good luck on all your decisions .

No ignorance, it's a good question. Here's an answer:

Way back when, in the days of steam engines, engineers discovered certain alloys that would tend to "hold" oil better than average. With open exposed bearings and "occasional" lube this was a good thing. Plus, the alloys were soft, so they wore insteand of wearing down the expensive steel bits.

This system evolved to one where the best way to do a bearing was to build the rod and journal kinda loose, then pour the metal in and let it cool. Then you scraped down the high spots, and you were good for quite a while.

There were two drawbacks: it took some labor to hand fit. Also, the soft bearing metal was, well, soft, so as the load on the bearing increased it tended to 'smush' out. As it smushes, clearances open up, and the increased play makes the rod hammer, or pound, that much more. Hence the name babbitt-pounder.

Finally some bright guy came up with the idea of the shell bearing. It's still babbitt in a way, but different. It's mostly steel, which is hard of course, but with a thin layer of babbitt plated on. So, it doesn't squish out.

The second big improvement was to pump oil, under pressure, into the bearing so that the whole thing sort of hydroplaned on a thin layer of oil. Once it was running, metal never touched metal.

Put these two things together, and you get bearings that go 100K miles or more w/o service. That was unheard of in the old babbitt days.

Can you run babbitts today? Well, yeah. You can still use horses, or use a steam train. Both are way cool. Both are a !@#!@# lot of work, too. ;-)

Cheers!
George

Thanks to everyone who responded, especially George Grenley for his Babbits 101 primer (I get it now), and to Brent for the local sources.

What a great site!

Thanks again to all.

Dave

Should I take it then that you won't be dropping by for my 216?