The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop FRAME RIVETS?

:p Ok, here's one for ya'll!
Where can I get my crossmember re-riveted back in place on my truck? I have had to cutt all the rivets on both my engine and tranny crossmembers to change them from a Chevy to a GMC, and while doing this, all the spring hangers as well. The front spring mounts in the rear are also riveted to the tranny crossmember as well.
I never in my mind thought a reputable frame shop would NOT be able to do this.
Now I am searching in S. Calif. for anyone who will do it!
Any thoughts?

While rivets were what they used at the factory, Grade 8 fasteners would probably work, I think that is the strongest fastener that is easily available, otherwise find the highest grade fasteners you can and use those

Rob

Grade 8 bolts with hardened washers.You have a choice of using regular nuts, nylock nuts(not good near high temp,i.e.ehaust),stover nuts are self locking type that donot like to be removed let alone back off.they can be tightened but are not designed to be removed.
I use 3/8 and 7/16 grade-8 bolts and hardened washers on my 72 3/4 4x4 at the tranny/transfer case crossmember.works well.

In my opinion less expensive grade 5 hardware is adequate.International trucks always used grade 5 on suspension and frame components.The original bolts on old GM trucks are not marked, so the strength is anyones guess.The original rivits are nothing special but the riviting action does forge the rivit some.The other question is ,what are the quality of the bolts we buy.Probably made in Asia, does the grade making mean anything at all? We have no way of knowing.

Using grade 5 bolts is a lot smarter. Why? Grade 8 bolts are very strong, but to get that strength they become very brittle. Grade 5 bolts will twist and flex more with the frame than the grade 8 will. They both will have about the same wear charateristics. Plus you'll spend half the amount for grade 5 than for grade 8.

Oh yeah, in regards to the original question - Why would you want to replace the rivets with new rivets? Rivets by their nature are an inferior form of attachment compared to a bolt/locknut combo (welding is the best, but precudes replacement w/o a lot of effort). It was another way for GM to save a few bucks.

I am a purist and I think the frame should be put back together w/ rivets. I am in the process of restoring a 1952 1/2 ton and we have had to do some chassis work. Try this company for rivets and the tools to properly install them http://www.bigflatsrivet.com

Rustynutz52, thanks for the site. I too was wondering if someone still made rivets. Looks like they have a decent selection and tools.

Thanks Rustynutz, this is what I am talking about. For one the appearance of a "restored" trucks should at least appear that way, on a second note, these holes are NOT just 3/8 holes, but an odd size of 13/32, therefore by installing just the 3/8 bolts, they inevetibly would work loose as the frame twists, and eventually egge shape all the holes. The rivets are installed hot, and hammered to swell in the hole filling the little bit of gap there is for movement. I'm sorry, but I have been a mechanic for too long and have seen this type of thing happen. Remember, this is a restoration, not just bolting peices together to make something work, there is a difference.
Thanks for all who replied.

Nap
AMEN to doing it right. I have seen a lot of frames wollowed out and even a couple cracked by putting bolts in place of rivets.
This practice is commonly seen on F*** trucks using radius arm bushings. Bad ideal no matter who made it. moral do it right or leave it alone!
Brad
also a mechanic

This rivit talk is interesting.At one point in my life I was a Bus mechanic. It was commonplace for spring hangers to become damaged from loose spring pins. We would remove the rivited forged hangers and the replacement hanger was bolted back in place.The replacement came with flanged bolts as an factory approved replacement assembly.We also replaced hangers using conventional grade 5 bolts. Never had a problem.My 37 chevy truck frame was bent from overloading when I got it.I removed the rivits and rear crossmenber and springhangers to enable me to straighten the one frame rail. I remember drilling the rivit holes to get a proper fit on the bolts.Assembled it with grade 5 bolts.5 years later its still fine.Your frame was rivited at a factory of the largest vehicle maker in the world, on a jig, using engineer designed multi ton rivit presses.Do you think its possible to get this done the same way as when the truck was new? The rivits may also have been cold forged into place.

I have seen/run the rivet presses used on GM trucks in past. In plant we set a cold rivet in the holes which were loose fit, then lowered a large c'clamp looking device over it and squeezed the trigger. A slow moving piston with dip in it fit over the head and pressed the rivet into another dipped out anvil that was stationary. Pressed rivet tight and expanded it in hole at same time, that's why they are hard to get out and need driving with a punch even w/out heads on. Most books I have read reccommend using next biggest diameter bolt to replace, 7/16" in this case, don't know why. I have not done that and used 3/8" grade eights, many times "borrowed" from the plant that had washer heads and nuts, mostly lock nuts. Now they are metric and DO require me to drill larger to use...I mean "test"! The presses used up to 92 were there from the 20's, so they did it the same for long time, don't know how you could copy that. Now days they are mostly welded up frames, some bolts, but up to the 98 models they still had some of same rivets, just put in at frame factory then.