The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 1954 235 project

Dave, did you ever measure out the old pistons? Were they oversized already?

Sounds like its going to be a nice build!

Graham, the pistons measured out to be std size (approx 3.55"). Don't know how many miles that engine had but it looks like it was run for about as long as it could be on the original build.

A couple questions for those in the know.
Question #1, will this 54 bell housing w/new 54 motor mounts bolt up to the 49's rear engine crossmember mounts -or- will I have to swap bell housing from the 49 216?

Question #2. Will the 54's flywheel and clutch assembly work if I have to swap to the 49 216's bell housing -or- will I have to go w/the smaller 216's flywheel and clutch assembly?

I've got an assembly manual and it seems to indicate that the rear mountings are the same but there is a difference in rear motor mounts from 53 to 54 in the after market parts manuals.

Still awaiting word on the crank....

Dave

I can answer #1. The rear engine mounts (ie: bellhousing mount) in a 49' 216 SHOULD be flat, whereas the bellhousing mounts on the 54' and up 235 SHOULD be angles slightly.

I have seen people cut out and weld in angled spots on their original flat crossmember. If you need, I can take a picture of my crossmember if that is the way you decide to go

"Question #1, will this 54 bell housing w/new 54 motor mounts bolt up to the 49's rear engine crossmember mounts -or- will I have to swap bell housing from the 49 216?

Question #2. Will the 54's flywheel and clutch assembly work if I have to swap to the 49 216's bell housing -or- will I have to go w/the smaller 216's flywheel and clutch assembly?"

1. Swap the bell/clutch housing from the 49 216.

2. Use the 54's flywheel and complete clutch assembly.

Graham, thanks for the info & offer. A pic won't be necessary now.
Did a basic carb rebuild tonight. The power piston was froze up in it's bore,the accelerator pumps sealing cup was worn and hardened and it had two gaskets sandwitched between the two halves. I had a nearly complete Rochester B rebuild kit left over from a long ago project that had the needed parts plus the correct new gasket. It should work now, if just for the break in.
The main jet was labeled with a 58. Since I'm going to go with headers and a hotter 3/4 cam I'm going to order a couple larger sized mains, perhaps a 60 and a 62 or maybe even larger. I'll be researching that more.

Tim, thanks for the answer. Good to know I can use the bigger clutch assembly.
I'll not worry w/cleaning and painting the 235's bellhouseing now
Dave

I would stick with the smaller clutch, the increased pedal pressure can get old, especially if you don't need it.

Don, noted.

Got a call from Custom Cranks this morning as I got off from a long night shift, but the call woke me up. The crank and flywheel were ready for pickup.

He said the rod journals were beatup pretty good but the mains weren't as bad. He had to take .020 off on the rod journals and .010 off of the mains. I'm going to leave it wrapped up until I'm ready to fit it.
Crank 1
Crank 2
The 54's flywheel cleaned up pretty good too.
Flywheel

A few shots of some 235 parts cleaned up and ready for reuse.
Assorted parts
Carb & intake

Crank cleanup,regrind and flywheel resurface - $150.00

Now I can order parts.
Pistons and rings .060 over.
Main bearings .010 over.
Rod bearings .020 over.

youve got quite a bit of work done! Gonna be a great lookin motor! You wanna come up here and rebuild mine next?

Graham, thanks for the compliment.

Ordered the engine kit, 3/4 cam, new lifters, pushrods and a set of Fenton headers w/exhaust heat kit.

Continued cleanup of the parts I'm reusing.
The distributor looked pretty rough. Pic 1
Pic 2
But the mechanical advance, flywheights, gear and bushings were in good shape.
It cleaned up pretty good.
Pic 3
Got a few other parts ready to go.
Pic 4

Long overdue update:
Several issues can and will crop up when doing a project like this and the main issue I've run into is coordinating all the work I have had to source out to others. Unfortunately outsourcing work also outsources some control, you then have to constantly adjust to others schedules and availabilities.....

Parts:
I decided to use a popular "One stop" source for all my parts and this was good for discounts sake but not so good for getting the parts when "I" needed them. Several items, namely oversize rings, getting a new cam ground, new oil pump etc., has cost me an entire month of waiting..... A month! I guess I shouldn't complain as atleast I'm getting good quality parts at good prices but a month!!!!!! When I was told a couple weeks at best!
I don't want to say I was getting the run-around on my once a week queries but lets say I lost confidence in when I could expect delivery...
Did I say a month!
ahem, but finally the parts have started arriving.....

Machine work:
The head and block work has been done for 3 weeks now with the exception of fitting the cam & bearings, which I needed the new parts for.
I don't have the correct tools to install and if necessary ream out the new cam bearings so I set it up for the machinist to do it while he had the block still at his shop. Well after a month of waiting he ran out of room and of course he also wanted paid for the work he's already done, and I can't blame him, so I went and picked up the head and block and paid him last Tuesday.
Total machine work price - $350.00

Well wouldn't you know it, the cam and cam bearings arrived Thursday so I'll be setting up a time and load up the block and carry it back over to him. I'll be taking the old cam as well as the brand new shiney 3/4 cam w/all new bearings, gear etc., and he'll install the bearings, press-off (or bust off) the old cam gear to get the spacer, put it together and fit the new cam.
I could do this but he has the tools and I don't......
A little field trip in the 49 carrying it's new powerplant tain't bad anyways...
I'm off the last week of Oct so I'll add this to the honey-do's...

With that mini-rant done, being the optimist that I am, I am glad that I can still find skilled craftsmen and new parts sources for an engine that's over 60 yrs old.....

Oh and btw, the new oil pump is still on back order, but at least it isn't holding me back for now.....

The shop became haunted this past Sat night which also put this project on hold, but that was a fun distraction
Hopefully the engine won't be haunted

Dave

Loaded the block, new cam, new cam bearings, new gear, spacer and thrust plate into the 'Bolt and ran them back over to the machine shop and had him install the new bearings for me. He had the proper bearing tool and we had them lined up and installed in minutes. I needed the key off the old cam so we attempted to press the old gear off, he said it would break before it would come off and it did break, but we got the key. Used his press and pressed the new thrust plate, spacer & gear onto the new cam, thrust plate free play = .0025.
I haven't measured it yet but the new cam fits nicely into the new bearings, no binding and just a barely discernable free play between the cam and the bearings.
Washed and cleaned the block one more time and mounted to the engine stand.
A pic on how I loaded/unloaded the block by myself.

Question, pictured just to the rear of the rear cam bearing, there looks to be a drain hole back to the oil pan. We drove the bearing in to where it lines up perfectly w/the oil feed from the main bearing and just up to the edge of the drain hole. Before I install the soft cam plug I'm wanting to be sure I've got the bearing installed correctly.
Thanks
Dave

To answer my own question, it appears to be correct. The shop manual calls for driving the cam end plug to either flush w/the block or no more than 1/32" deep. This is to keep the plug from covering up the drain hole I rekon. Looks like there will be just enough gap between the bearing and end plug to allow excess oil a path to drain back to the pan.
Spent some time measuring & fitting the pistons & rings tonight.
Piston clearance in the cyl's is right at .002 and all ring gaps fall within spec. I then labeled the pistons & rings with their respected bores for later assembly.
Pic 1
Pic 2
Pic 3

seems like it is coming along nicely Dave!!

Dave, nice job at taking lots of pictures for other folks like me that have it in front of 'em. How much do you think you'll have in the rebuild?

Thanks men. How much do I have in it so far? With parts and machine shop work I've got around $1500 in it. Most of the parts are in but I'm still awaiting on the oil pump. And a good deal on a dual carb setup

With the Halloween festivities over and my shop back to being a shop, I got to spend some time on the engine today.
I put a coat of Chevy blue on the block and fit the crank.
With 1 shim on each bearing, all main journals came in at 0.0015 as measured w/plastigauge.
I also cut and installed the rear rope seal. The Best Seal rear rope seal kit came w/the rope seals, a very sharp cutter, a dowel pin, a gauge for cutting the ends and good instructions. .
I'm impressed w.the Best Seal gasket kit.
I'm VERY happy w/the crank's fit, looks like Custom Crank machine shop did a very good job turning the main journals, hopefully the rod journals fit as well.
New bearings
Bearings in caps
Fitting crank
#1 main
#2 main
#3 main
#4 main
Best Gasket kit
New rope seal
Dave

Fitted the cam in the block. Was very happy with the fit in it's bearings. Pounded in the cam endplug.
Endplay and runout = 0.004". Pulled it and tried to pound the gear alittle tighter but that was it.
0.004 is within specs so I reinstalled and used red threadlocker to keep those 2 thrust plate screws good and tight. Don't want them coming loose under operation.

Taped and started painting the head and did alittle touchup on the endplate. Course I managed to get alittle overspray on the gears...
So I want the head fully painted and dried out by the time I get to installing it and putting it together.
runout
pic 2
Cam endplug installed
Pic 4

Stoked up a fire in the shop and got it toasty warm on a cold day. Got to spend some more time on the engine and got some more parts fitted and installed.

Assembling the pistons was the most time consuming, glad it wasn't a V12 My bench vise's jaws were the perfect size to hold the piston by the flats while I assembled the rods to the piston pins.
Once the pistons were installed on the crank the rod bearings measured out at 0.0015 - 0.002
With the pistons installed I needed a large screw driver to turn the engine. The new rope seal made it almost too tight to turn by hand and the installed pistons did make it too tight to turn by hand. It turns with no binding and should loosen up.
Disassembled and cleaned up the rocker assembly. All the tips were slightly worn so I ground them down just enough to dress them up. Oddly the holes in the rocker shaft were pointed down when I took it apart but reassembled them with the holes up. Yjey and the valve cover are just laying on top, couldn't think of a better place to keep them for now.
Getting close.
New pistons & CLevite rod bearings
Assembled piston
Very tight cam & rod clearances
All pistons installed
New freeze plugs
Best Gasket head gasket
Head installed
Worn rocker tip
Dressed rocker tip
Frontend parts installed

Is it just me, or does the picture in the book show the holes in the rocker shaft down? I have been wrong before so correct me if I am wrong. The pictures and the information so far have been great. Thanks for posting as well as you have done.

The holes for oiling the rocker arms are on the bottom of the shafts. The three holes in each shaft ( shown in Shop Manuals ) are for the bolts that attach/hold the three rocker-arm assembly mounting-posts/towers to the head (three posts for each of the two shafts).

I want my motor back...

Thanks for the input on the rocker shaft orientation men. I couldn't tell via the pics and I wasn't sure if the topend hadn't been apart before. Figured it would oil the rockers better that way. It'll be easy enough to point those shaft oiling holes down as they aren't installed yet.

Still awaiting on the new oil pump, going on 6 weeks now......
Going to disassemble inspect and clean the original oil pump in the mean time.

Graham, I'm afraid I've grown too attached to that engine now

Dave

Still awaiting the oil pump. I'm told they're still on factory back order.
I went through the oil pump I do have and unfortunately theres side play in the shaft, enough to see the drive gear move when meshed with the driven gear. Other than that it looked pretty good considering it's age. Wonder if theres a bushing kit for them?

After reading the engine ID thread on page 1 currently, I went and checked the head numbers on this 54 235 engine I'm rebuilding.
They are:
Head: 3836848, GM23, E65, CON 9
Block: 031664ET54X CON 2
I don't know the full history of this engine so either I have a later model head on a 54 block or these supposed later version high compression 3836848 heads came on 54's also.

Dave

Dave

Wish I could help you on the history Dave. When I bought the truck I was told "all original", unfortunately it wasn't by the original owner.

Update:
No problem Graham, the head is good and that's the main thing. Chevy was making the Blue Flame Vatte engine in 54 so its feasible the 54 848 head was high compression also, atleast on the Vette 235's it had to be....

Finally got the new oil pump in the day before Christmas Eve. It looks new and not refurb'ed. It has USA cast into it along w/part# M29. The original has the OEM long part# cast but no USA, otherwise they match up nearly identical. Wonder if the pump is actually cast/made in the USA?

Pre-oiled and installed the pump, gave all moving parts a good squirt down w/my assembly lube concoction and closed up the bottom end. Those Best Gasket gaskets lined up perfectly.

Went on to assembling the valve train and ran into another snag.
Since I installed a 3/4 cam I also had to go w/new lifters and pushrods. I prelubed the lifters and installed them. They fit great w/no side play.
But when I started installing the pushrods I discovered 8 were about 3/4" shorter than the other 4. The boxes were new and unopened and a quick call to the supplier indicates that the manufacturer has been making similar mistakes on several of his other orders. He says they are opening them up and checking every box now. The correct longer pushrods are on their way.

Surprisingly I wasn't all that put out by this little setback. You see if I'm going to cast stones I'll have to start w/myself. When I stepped back and was looking over my work I couldn't help but notice this little plate w/2 screws just sitting there laying on the bench. Those who've rebuilt these old Stovebolts know what I saw and what I've got to do........
A few pics:
Oil pump casting
oil pumps
oil pump installed
lifters

At least you saw the cam retainer sitting there before you put it in the truck and started it up.

The head date code is E65:
E = 5 = May
6 = 6th
5 = 1955
An early 848 head - most likely added later to the 1954 3100 truck block?

Don, tain't the cam retainer thank goodness.

Tim, your guess is as good (or better) than mine.

Dave

Ok Dave, on more stab at it. Oil baffle for the draft tube?

2nd times a charm Don. That danged little deflector plate practically jumped up and smacked me in the face when I turned around from admiring that engine.... If I didn't need it I'd wear it out w/a ball pean

A case of Brad Penn break in oil was sitting at my front door when I got home. Shame I got to drop the pan again....

Happy New Year.

Dave

Update:
There was a big car show in town today so I drove the 49 over and checked it out. There were 3 Stovebolts being shown, 2 were rat rods and the other was a beautiful trailer queen, all had SBC's. There wasn't any 6 banger parts to be found. After an hr or so I headed back to the ponderosa.

Fired the wood stove up and got to spend some quality time on the engine.
Dropped the pan, added a alittle red thread locker to the 2 screws and installed that breather oil baffle. There was just enough room to install it around the cam.
With that done, installed the pan w/new gaskets and filled it w/5qts of Brad Penn 30w breakin oil.

The correct pushrods finally arrived on Thursday so they and the the rocker shaft/arms got installed.

Using the positions of the lifters and a ty-rap inserted in the cylinder(s), I adjusted the valves 0.006 intake and .016 exhaust.
With the side cover still off I put a long screwdriver tang in a drill, set it to rotate clockwise then spun the oil pump. It pumped up to 30 psi pretty quickly and once I saw some oil trickle out of the rockers, the side cover was installed. Once the gasket sealer sets up for a day or two I'm going to re-run the oil pressure test, I want to see full oiling and make sure theres no leaks.

Installed the harmonic balance and decided to go back w/the stock draft tube setup and installed it.

Installed the Fenton headers and stock intake manifold but ran into a situation with the Fenton headers mounting points not lining up equally with the stock intakes mounting points.
I was able to address all but one. I'm either going to o grind alittle off one corner of the clamp or make up a new one. I'm researching that.

Getting close....

Oil Baffle
oil test setup
pic
pic
pic

yes, you will have to "ADJUST" something to get those little clamps to work, I actually had to use a hacksaw to cut enough off of one or two of mine to get them to fit. I have finally accepted the apparent fact that you can't buy parts anymore that actually fit/work out of the box for these. The linkage for the dual carb setup was a lot of fun...

Volfandt,

Who did you buy the exhaust manifolds from? There are now different suppliers (who import independently from Taiwan/China manufacturers, I think).

If you decide in the future to go to dual carbs (I am back to one 2-barrel carb on my 261), ask about various linkage parts. Some linkage sets/parts do work OK.

Thanks for the updates on your engine. Good luck.

I got the headers from Patricks. With all the horror stories I've read re. headers, from holes in castings to the ports not lining up or needing grinding, my problem is quite minor as I can overcome them with somewhat minor adjustments to the clamps.

I am still not ruling out duals, but breakin will be w/a single.

Thanks
Dave

Update:
Ran the oil pressure test again. It pumped up to 40 psi and held there steady through varying drill speeds. I was surprised at the load the oil pump was putting on my 3/8ths drill. It took a while before I got oil out of all the rocker arms, bit once the rocker shaft was filled it didn't take long on subsequent tests. So far no oil leaks (knock on wood).

Finally got the header/manifold clamps sorted out and bolted up. I had to add a piece of 1/2" angle iron to the clamp at the 1/2 ports,(saw that trick here in another post), ground alittle off one side of the clamp at 3/4 ports and turned the small clamp sideways to fit at the 5/6 ports.

Ran into another situation with those Fenton headers. The rear header is obstructing the vertical throttle rod preventing a straight connection between the carb and throttle bellcrank. The rod will either have to be bent around the header somewhat or replaced with another with some the bends installed.
I'm interested in how others worked around this.....

Angle iron & clamp at 1/2 port
Ground clammp at 3/4 ports
Wide gap with throttle linkage at carb

Well internet searches didn't turn up anything about single carb linkage issues w/Fenton headers so it was time to hit the hillbilly drawing board

I found a length 1/4" round stock and decided to try and make up a workable linkage.
Using a stout piece of 14 gauge wire I made up a template of all the bends needed to clear the header and work the carb.
Inorder to keep the total length the same I needed an additional inch to compensate for bends.
After getting a good template I heated up the 1/4" round stock and made my bends to match the template.
I had a couple 4 pair telephone cable clamps and tack welded them to the new shaft at approx the same location as the spring keeper on the OEM.
A drilled hole at the bottom hook for a spring clip pin will keep it put there and I found an old style throotle rod keeper for the top.
Course I won't know until I bolt the engine in the truck whether the bell crank is at the proper position to connect to the pedal linkage but I'll cross that road when I reach it. The finished mod rod is the exact same lengt
h bend to bend as the OEM so perhaps it'll work out.
OEM rod
14 gauge template
Mod rod
Mod rod installed.




.

Received the Real Gasket silicone valve cover gasket today and am impressed enough to share some info on it.
It was discussed in another thread and even tho it's over twice the cost of a std cork gasket, this is washable and reusable which should help pay for it in a couple of valve adjustments.
It came all bundled up in a small bag but popped out to it's normal usable state once unpackaged. It goes on dry.
Web site
Some pics.
pic
pic
pic
pic

A few last touches before test time, which should be soon.
The universal Chevy 6 cyl alt bracket wouldn't mount the 100amp 3 wire alternator far enough away from the block so I made up a plate to kick it out a bit and it looks like it'll work out OK.
Found a universal 12v coil w/internal resistor at a local old timey auto parts store (along w/some clips and brass fittings) and the new OEM style plug wires arrived so I set the dist and got the ignition system ready. Got the fan mounted and belt adjusted. The engine is ready to be transferred to the testing/breakin stand. I'm going to use the 54 bell housing for testing/breakin and swap it out with the 216's bell housing to properly mount back in the 49.
Alternator & brkt
Alt brkt
Ignition system
Carb return spring
PIC

It could be my depth perception on the picture, but how close is the alternator wire to the block/exhaust?

I only mention it because I didn't even think about its proximity to heat when I installed mine on a cold engine.

Enjoy reading your updates, btw.

Brad

Brad, are you talking about the DA plug wire? If so theres about 1/2" clearance between the red & black wire to the block. It is close and the pic makes it look closer. I thought about rotating the Alt case but feel 1/2" should be OK. Any problems come up during breakin I'll address them.

Been studying on a run stand. Bought a dolly on sale the other day, rated at 1200lbs. May incorporate it as a unit or just use the wheels, tain't never a plug and play when on a budget

Dave

That's the one, Dave. I figured it just looked closer in the picture, and also figured you had studied on it some. Just checking!

The wire will catch as much heat from that nice wood - burning stove I saw behind it.

Fwiw, a highly skilled and helpful member has recommended my truck be used as the run-in "stand" when that day finally arrives. Is that a possibility for you to use for your engine?


Brad