The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop 235 Water Pump...Again

I've got my 1960 235 mounted in my '49 AD frame. The pulley is obviously much too big and long.

Are my only two options either a short shaft pump as seen for $150 or an adapter plate and a 216 pump?

Is there any of the FLAP rack pump I could use in conjunction with an electric fan that might be a better option?

If not, how hard is it to drill the engine and ream the holes for the plate?

I've got short pump/pulley, made my own pushed hub back on shaft found shallow pulley, trimmed off excess shaft. My buddy went with short shaft/pulley but no fan, just electric controlled via therm. unit.

OR buy an adaptor plate off ebay (Pre68Dave) and use 216 pump/pulley. It's around $40.

You can modify the water pump yourself. Press the pulley mount to where needed, install 292 Ford pulley, cut off excess shaft.

The 216 pulley will not work for this. The diameter is too small. There are others that will. The diameter needs to be close to the same as the 235 pulley and the right height to give you clearance.

This is the way it was done before vendors started gouging people for the short shaft water pump.

That being said, if I had it to do today I'd go with the adapter.

pre68dave's plate is terrific. Works great. Real hot days and only goes to 170-180 at best. Short shaft pump puts it low. Good luck...

http://www.fiftee6.com/Water%20pump%20adapter%20plate%20install/

I went with the short shaft/ford pulley and as a daily driver only vehicle the last 16 years never over heated. Like Cletis, now that this adapter plate has it all sorted out I would consider the change.

OK I ordered the adapter. Easy enough to drill and tap some holes.

BUT if I'm using the 216 water pump the pulley sizes are now out of whack. Does this require a different size harmonic balancer and, if so, does changing that require pulling the cam, etc?

What width belt would you like to run?

I think 3/8" is best, no?

The 1953-54 216/early 235 style pump comes with a 3/8" belt pulley and works with the plate.
There are a number of choices with balancers, the only one I do not recommend using is the 1955-62 passenger.
There is a list of balancers on my blog, at the bottom of my wright up about my adapter.

BTW, nothing but the balancer needs to be removed to change it.

Dave - Do you know if the balancer (which I assume is the pulley/thing the belt goes around) from a '61 truck engine works with the pump you're talking about?

Was reading your site. It says"

Caution: I do not recommend using the 1955-62 passenger balancer since the pulley is larger and may turn the fan too fast, leading to cracking. (to identify this balancer, the pulley is 6 3/4" OD X 5/8" outside to outside edge).

Are those dimensions for the car pulley or the truck pulley?

Also, what's the advantage of this over whatever pump and an electric fan?

For those who feel there is no reason to deviate from the very well done mechanicals of the time, an electric fan is blasphemy. The mechanical fan works perfectly and honors the era the truck was made. Others may say why fix whats not broke. If you are putting AC in the truck that's another thing.

Once you have this initial problem figured out, you will feel just fine with the mechanical fan. I was there once. Trust Dave to help you with getting over the hump. You will be glad you did.

My 1959 261 with Daves water pump plate and the corresponding water pump works perfectly. No changing where the radiator sits, no worries about fan clearance, nothing. Hope this helps!

Yes, the identification is for the pass balancer, ie the one not to use.
The truck balancer will works great.

Awesome. So what's the dimension of the truck balancer?

I'll be ordering the bracket tonight.

All the dimensions of the truck balancer are highlighted in blue at the bottom of my Blog link I posted above.

OK. I'm not necessarily confused but have an additional question. Don't use the passenger pulley but use the truck pulley. Pulleys are the same diamater. The only difference is the belt width of 1/8". Is that difference in diameter enough to make a great enough difference in the pump speed?

I measured mine. I measured twice. I could have sworn the pulley diameter is 7.75 inches. Now I'll have to go back tomorrow and measure again.

If you read Pre Dave's blog in the paragraph above the bit about spinning to quick it reads the following quote...

1941-52  Harmonic balancer and water pump for ⅝" belt.
1953-54  Harmonic balancer* and water pump for ⅜" belt.
* For ⅜" belt an acceptable substitution is to use a 1955-62 truck balancer. This balancer is designed for a ½” belt but may be used with a ⅜" belt. This will allow the belt to run deeper in the groove and in affect will reduce the diameter to very near the correct size.

So by running the truck balancer the difference of 1/8 isn't in the diameter but the width of the pully groove allowing the 3/8 belt to drop deeper into it and in turn reducing the overall diameter that the belt is turning around., as also mentioned by Pre Dave in that blue highlighted quote.

I used the balancer from my 216 for this application. I run a more modern flex fan, a 15" PermaCool to be exact. 6 blades, and it was very close to kissing the larger diameter 235 pulley. That's why I pulled the one off my 216. Runs great.
Good luck, take your time, and don't drill into the block too deep...Phil

Here's my 235 balancer.

http://i.imgur.com/GhfeyHNl.jpg

7 3/4" diameter. Is this incorrect or...? Is this too large a balancer to use on the earlier water pumps with the bracket?

If I've got to pull the balancer and source a 216 balancer, plus bracket and new pump, it'd be easier to put an electric fan in.

The diameter of the balancer is not what you need to measure, it is the pulley diameter and width.

Ha, OK. Well I'll measure that 3 times tonight. Meanwhile I purchased the plate.

Where is a good place to buy an early style water pump?? I seen over on the HAMB forum, some fellow bought a rebuilt from NAPA and had it go bad in a few days, returned and replaced it with another to have it also fail, and I believe even a third time had it to fail. Finally the NAPA refunded his money and told him they didn't carry them anymore. Probably got tired of replacing it.
I've looked for kits to rebuild them, but the only thing that shows up is NOS ones. Who knows how good the seal and bearing might still be in those....

John

Just got one from NAPA but have not run long enough for any failure. Ran long enough to get it up to temp and open the thermostat. Hope it doesn't fail......

Yes I've seen them listed at all the flaps.

I'd look at Rockauto.com, great site to compare brands/prices, costs nothing to shop. Very speedy delivery also.

I buy brand new ones at my FLAPS.

Well I already feel like an idiot so here's some more pics and another question.

The Pulley

Pulley Width

So the pulley is marginally smaller than the balancer and still likely slightly larger than 6.75". And the pulley is wider, as measured from outside to outside, than 1/2" - really more like 5/8's. But is this what's meant by 1/2" when discussing the pulley width as compared to 3/8?

A pulley designed for a 3/8" belt is 5/8" wide measuring from the outside to outside(yours).
A pulley designed for a 1/2" belt will measure 3/4".
It looks like you have a 1955-62 passenger car balancer.

Of course it is... darn. So what do I need to do now? Find a truck balancer?

There is a list of recommended balancers on my blog.
The risk with using the 1955-62 passenger balancer is over speeding the fan. With a stock fan this will flex the fan more than designed for and can lead to cracking.
BTW this should be fun or you need a different hobby

Dave - Thanks. I guess I'm asking of the larger Stovebolt community: "Where do I find a truck balancer?"

It is very fun but there is so much to do, almost none of it has gone easy, and I'm renting a garage that I'm losing access to very soon.

Place a Part Wanted Ad in the Swap Meet. Be sure to post the diameter and groove size you want.

Maybe someone will post a source of a new balancer - I think someone has done so, and is was $$$.

Check with French Lake Auto parts, (320) 274-8497

www.frenchlakeautoparts.com

I wanted to correct what I said about getting a pump from local FLAPS. NONE of the local ones (so far) have one in stock and only a few can order them. NAPA can't get any.