The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The Electrical Bay more turnsignal confusion (new thread with pictures)

I got out my turnsignal instructions and they are not very good. I took some pictures and I will give the instructions here and maybe someone can help me figure it out.

Here's the important parts out of the instructions:

Wiring
"Begin by running green and yellow wires to front and rear of truck. Extend the green wire to the right rear taillight. Thread the other ends through the firewall, leaving some slack and cut."

-I don't think I have to do the running the wires to the front of the truck because they are already included in my wiring harness

Tail Lamp Connections

"The socket in this kit is a double filament replacement for your original single filament socket; remove lens and bracket inside taillight (New brackets included). Remove single filament sockets from original bracket, place one original single socket and the double filament socket into the new bracket. Make sure the sockets fit tight so they will have a good ground. This may require you to bend the flanged area around the opening some with pliers. Then replace in taillight.
[img]http://inlinethumb26.webshots.com/22681/2734985610100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]
Numbered wire connects back to your original taillight wire*, other wire connects to left side yellow wire, and right side connects to green wire."

-From the instructions it seems like you are only connecting to two wires from the taillight. *Also, there was not a numbered wire, so I don't know what that is about. Which ones go the the stop, tail, and turnsignals?

Switch

"Drill a 1/2" hole under dash. Connect wire #9 to a good ground. Wire #10 to battery. Join the two green wires together and connect them to #8 on toggle switch. The two yellow wires go to terminal #7 on toggle switch.** If possible try to keep flasher unit in upright position, it will function a bit better. If your signals work opposite of the position on the switch, change position of switch to match. Use the bulbs from your front park lights in your rear and two for the front park lights. If you prefer that the buzzer not work, remove the red lead from the toggle switch."
-**I believe this is the front left and rear left connected together, and the front right and rear right connected together.

Here's the assembly:
[img]http://inlinethumb43.webshots.com/23402/2343445810100058208S500x500Q85.jpg[/img]
*In this picture, I believe the flasher connects between these two connections (orange arrows)

[img]http://inlinethumb51.webshots.com/25330/2266846500100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]



In their instructions, there is a different wiring diagram for turnsignals, and it includes a separate wire for each signal (front right, front left, rear right, and rear left,) instead of having front right and rear right and front left and rear left connected. Here's the wiring diagram that's included with the wiring harness kit (not the turnsignal kit). * I recreated it on Paint, because I don't have a scanner, but this is what it looked like:
[img]http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/24811/2441956460100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]

Here's the instructions the wiring harness gives:

"Main wires for turnsignals are included in harness. Power & flasher wires must be supplied. If you are adding turnsignals to your pickup, this type of system does not require extra lamps mounted on the front & rear of pickup. This way, your truck can retain its original appearance, while having the convenience of turnsignals. Stoplamps & rear turnsignals operate on one wire & taillamps operate on the other wire. However, front parklamps must be converted to double filament bulbs because one wire will be needed for front parklamps & another wire will be needed for front turnsignals."

-It makes it sound like you only need two wires from the rear lights, but there are two wires from the double filament socket and one more from the other socket. So I don't know where the other wire goes.

Here's the provisions for turnsignals in the wiring harness:

[img]http://inlinethumb32.webshots.com/22367/2443513790100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]
[img]http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/23170/2809634790100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]
[img]http://inlinethumb21.webshots.com/25300/2438480540100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]


Finally, here's a numbered list of wires on the wiring harness:

1. Headlamp switch (dash lamp terminal) to Dash Lamps
2. Ignition switch (battery terminal) to Headlamp Switch (battery terminal)
3. Ammeter (+ terminal) to Voltage Regulator ( B terminal)
8. Fuse block (stoplamp terminal) to Stoplamp switch
10. Fuse block (taillamp terminal) to Taillamps
11. Voltage Regulator (A terminal) to Generator (A terminal)
12. Headlamp Switch (taillamp terminal) to fuse block (taillamp terminal)
13. Headlamp Switch (stoplamp terminal) to fuse block (stoplamp terminal)
14. Headlamp switch (headlamp terminal) to dimmer switch (battery teminal)
15. Dimmer switch (low beam terminal) to low beam headlamps
16. Dimmer switch (high beam terminal) to high beam headlamps to high beam indicator
18. Ammeter (+ terminal) to horn
19. Ignition switch (ignition terminal) to gas gauge (E terminal)
20. Horn button to horn
22. Stoplamp switch to stoplamps
23. Headlamp switch (parklamp terminal) to parklamps
24. Voltage regulator (F terminal) to generator (F terminal)
26. Gas gauge (F terminal) to gas tank sender
31. Left rear turnsignal and stoplamp to turnsignal switch
32. Right rear turnsignal and stoplamp to turnsignal switch
33. Stoplamp switch to turnsignal switch (disregard wire #22)
34. Left front turnsignal to turnsignal switch
35. Right front turnsignal to turnsignal switch
37. Headlamp switch (dome lamp terminal) to dome lamp


This is the complete list from the instructions. What is bugging me is that the stoplight switch isn't mentioned in the turnsignal kit instruction, but it is in the wiring harness kit.

This is what I am thinking my wiring should look like:
[img]http://inlinethumb59.webshots.com/25018/2682416320100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]

Tell me if everything looks correct or not. I am thinking that on the rear double filament sockets, one wire goes to the turnsignal switch, and the other goes to the original stoplamp connection. Then on the other single filament socket, it just goes to the taillamp terminal, like it was originally. Will the light come on for both turnsignal and stoplamps if it is wired this way?

One more thing, where does the flasher lead wire go? It says "to power" but where would I actually connect it?

I hope this wasn't terribly confusing, but I am just trying to figure this out and make it work correctly. I would appreciate any help on this subject. Just point me in the right direction. Thanks

Justin Squire,

I started to reply to this several times, and deleted my posts as it seems like there are so many things to cover. I'll try again.

Here are my thoughts, they could be wrong.

The power for the turn signal flasher must be fused and connected to a switched source of power. This means the switched side of the ignition switch. This applies to turn signals only..warning flashers would be connected to a unswitched power supply.

#3 on the wiring list is backwards to my thinking. Charging system output (VR B) and all loads connect to ammeter - while ammeter + is connected to BATT at the starter switch lug.

Your wiring diagram of tail and front turns look good. Are parking lights and taillights the same?

If the large filament of the dual lamp is BRAKE, it is bright when illuminated. This means that in order to properly see a blinking TURN, which is less bright, that it need to be as physically removed from the BRAKE lamp as possible.

Wouldn't this mean that the dual filament bulb would be BRAKE (large filament), TAIL (small filament) and the other single bulb located further up in the light assembly would be TURN.

It appears to me, using the toggle switch for turns, that each lamp at the back will have a single function. TAIL/PARK will come on with the head light switch. BRAKE will come on when the brake pedal is depressed. TURN will come on when the toggle switch is flipped to either side.

All these functions are separate and independent of each other...a tough way to accomplish it in my book!

In your situation, unswitched, fused power is wired to one side of the pedal actuated brake switch. The other side is routed back to both BRAKE lights, which would be the large filament of the dual filament lamps.


I don't know if I left anything out, and hope this helps answer at least one, or some of your questions. This is the way I think it would work.

Stuart

are you referring to the wiring diagram that I made up? Where the rear lights go to the taillamp terminal and the front parklights go to the parklight terminal? I think there are two separate terminals on the light switch for these but they are on at the same time.
If this is not what you are asking, please clarify.

I also considered the option you discussed. It seems like it would work just as well to connect the stoplamp wires to one terminal of the dual filament and the taillamp wires to the other terminal. Then I can use the one single filament bulb for the turn signals. The only thing I would have to change in my wiring diagram is switch which terminal the taillamp and turnsignal wires go to in the rear lights.
Does that sound right?
Thanks for the input

Justin Squire,

Yes, I was referring to the diagram you made...it looks correct.

My question about the parking/taillights had to do with terminology. I thought that, in the rear at least, a parking light was a taillight. The front of course would be different. If those two terminals on the light switch were on when it was pulled all the way out, you would have it made.

My statement must not have been clear, because I was trying to describe exactly what you have described in regards to the rear BRAKE/TAIL and TURN lights.

I think you have it all figured out.


Stuart

it all sounds good. let's see if it will work when I connect hook it up. When I actually get power and everything connected, I'll tell whether it worked or not.

I tried the napa 1154 double filament bulb, but it seems too big for both the rear light housing and the front parklights on a 51 GMC. Are there any smaller dual filament bulbs? What has everyone else been doing with this setup?

Here are a few pictures I took with the 1154 bulb from NAPA:
In front parklight:
[img]http://inlinethumb10.webshots.com/25097/2916109690100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]

In rear housing:
[img]http://inlinethumb27.webshots.com/24282/2221958920100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]
[img]http://inlinethumb22.webshots.com/25365/2473584090100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]
[img]http://inlinethumb52.webshots.com/24563/2089064780100058208S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]

Will it hurt anything if the bulbs in the taillight are that close together? Also, I don't have the lens handy, but will it extend far enough to cover the large double filament bulb?

The bulbs close together won,t hurt but if the lense is plastic it needs some clearance.

the lens is glass and I just moved the socket down farther in the bracket in the taillight, so now it seems to fit correctly.

Well months later I finally got power to the turnsignals and tested them and everything worked as planned.

Just a thought. Why do you need two bulbs in the old tail lite can when you change to a dual bulb. The brite side is for stop turn the dimmer side is for tail. don't need the smaller lamp at all. all my 10 wheelers only have one bulb. Work fine.

The only reason I need two bulbs is that I'm adding a turnsignal light as well. I have a cheap system that does not integrate stop and turnsignal functions into one filament, therefore I need a total of three filaments in the rear light housing, one for tail, one for stop, and one for signal. Otherwise I would have just switched to one dual filament bulb.

Justin, I feel your pain. I've been going thru the same thing, and the pictures of the turn signal mod appears to be the same one I purchased for my 48 Chevy. If I followed the posts correctly, it looks like the turn signal wires (yellow and green) should go to the single filament (original) bulbs at the rear. Therefore, the stoplight wire tail light wires go to the new double filament bulb. Correct? Where did you finally connect the red fused wire that terminates at the flasher? I hope to follow your advice and get mine working.

Justin, I did a quick reply but did not see it hit the forum. If this is a duplicate, just ignore.

I've got the same turn signal kit to install on my 48 Chevy. To summarize all the posts, it looks like the new turn signal yellow and green wires are routed to one of the original signal filament bulbs, correct? Therefore, the stop light and tail light wires go to the new dual filament bulb, correct? Finally, where did you attach the fused red wire in the kit that attaches to one terminal on the flasher? I tried wiring mine directly to the battery and that does not appear to work. Also, did it make a difference whether you had the switch mounted to finaly get the turn signals to work? (I figured it shouldn't since there was already a dedicated ground connection from the switch.) Thanks for any advice; hopefully I can learn something from your pain.

Yes you are correct about the yellow and green wires. Here is how it works. [img]http://inlinethumb64.webshots.com/43263/2578480550103503755S425x425Q85.jpg[/img]
Okay I checked out your webshots album and on your green wire...I see that it is divided into two wires, but I'm not sure where they go, but that wire should be responsible for either both lights on the left side, or both lights on the right side. One division should go to the back (either left or right) and one division should go to the front (same side). So one wire from the switch (either yellow or green) will go to front right and back right, and the other wire on the switch will go to front left and back left...make sense? Then you connect your stop lamp and taillamp connections as you would normally, they just aren't in two separate bulbs anymore, you use the dual filament bulb.
I attached the red fused wire to the "A" terminal on the ignition switch. This is the terminal on the switch for accessories such as the heater, and turnsignals. I don't know if it makes a difference where the switch is mounted, but it shouldn't. You just need to make sure the ground wire is attached good to a place with no paint. Spray a little WD-40 on the area if you aren't sure if it's gettin a good enough ground.

[img]http://inlinethumb42.webshots.com/24617/2706349420100058208S500x500Q85.jpg[/img]
Here's a good picture. As you can see, each of the two wires going to the lights is divided. One is divided for left side front and back, and the other side is divided for right side front and back. The black wire in the foreground goes to the bottom of the dash for the ground, and the red or "hot" wire should go to the terminal that you can barely see on the ignition switch. I think I just didn't have mine connected yet in that picture.

I hope this helps and if you have any more questions, just ask.

Justin, thanks very much for the reply. I understand completely and that is how I have it wired. The reason you saw the splits on the yellow and green wires coming off switch terminals 7 and 8 are because they cover the corresponding front and rear lights, just like you did. Basically, I've wired the same as you. That leads me to believe there is a problem with the switch or how it is wired. Mine has the fused red going to one side of the flasher. The other side of the flasher has a black wire that goes to one of the middle terminals on the switch. There is a black jumper wire that connects it to the other middle terminal on the switch. Finally, the black wire that is grounded to the vehicle goes to one of the two small gauge wires attached to that little white plastic buzzer(?). After passing thru the buzzer, the wire coming out of the buzzer splits into two red wires that are attached to the two terminals on the opposite end of the switch from the yellow and green. I believe you can see all this in my photo.
Given all that, when I activate the switch toggle in one direction, I get flashing front and rear lights (4 way flashers). When I toggle the other way, I get nothing.
Boy, this is frustrating. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.