The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Engine will start, but...

The Blue Funk (see my signature) will start, sometimes, but the starter turns it over so danged slowly the battery often runs down and it's often a No Go. Now, if I hook the starter up to a 12 volt battery, it sounds a lot like a Modern Starter and will turn the Engine over.

My Concern is that the Engine has been difficult to turn, for example, when I was doing a Static Timing on it before it was actually started. I've been wondering if the problem lies with that difficulty or it's merely that the starter doesn't have enough OOMPH! to get the Job done?

Whatta ya think?

Are you still running 6 volt system? If so, have new cables been added? Did you use the large cables? 4 gauge cables just won't cut it on a 6 volt system. Have the battery tested to make sure it has the amperage it needs to turn the engine over.

And it could be the starter is just no longer up to the challenge.

Where do you have the battery ground cable connected?

Dave, if the cables are sized correctly, as Roy points out,
and 'all' the connections are clean, and you have a good 6v
battery that is up to par and not 10 years old and the starter
motor doesn't have bad bearings/bushings or worn brushes or
dirty commutator then that system is more than adequate to
start that 6 cylinder motor under almost any condition.

If it's not starting then the compression is way low, or it
needs an electrical tune up or it's not getting the proper fuel
metering or it's got the "Blue Funk" disease.

The reason the 6volt systems are given such a bum wrap is simply
because of poor maintenance. My '50, 216 is totally stock and
has been starting as it should summer/winter rain or shine
since 2005 when I brought her home. At that time I went over
the entire system, replacing, rebuilding and cleaning up
everything like it was when it was new and it performs like it
did when it was new.

Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Still running a 6 volt system with the Original Cables. I'm thinking you may just be right about the starter, Roy.
Battery Ground is connected to the Frame as Before. I made sure the Bolt Hole was taped over when I painted the Frame and gave Everything a Good Cleaning before Reattaching, Don. You do bring up an Area that I can Recheck.
The Mechanics checked out the Compression and Fuel Supply with Adequate Results.

The maintenance Thing could well be a Causitive Factor.

I'll look more into your Suggestions. Thanks, Guys!

Is the battery up to the task? If it hasn't been tested with the high current draw method, you don't know for sure. Load the battery to 1/2 the cold cranking amp rating for 20 seconds, and check the terminal voltage with the load still applied. A 6V battery should not drop below 4.5 volts to pass this test. Most shops have no clue how to do that test, or what results they're looking for.

For instance- - - -a 600 CCA battery needs to be load tested at 300 amps for 20 seconds. The "battery testers" most parts stores use have a fixed 100 amp load, and are intended to "test" a discharged or poorly-charged battery for the purpose of selling you another battery. The battery needs to have a minimum specific gravity of 1.250 in all cells before it's even charged enough to test. Full-charge specific gravity is 1.265 or so, with a maximum variation of 10-15 points.

Once the battery tests good start getting all the connections clean- - - -no, actually I mean CLEAN! as in surgically clean and brightly-shined with a wire brush. Cables need to be a minimum of #1 and 0 or 00 welding cable is better. Run the ground cable directly from the battery to one of the starter attaching bolts. You can run a #4 or smaller ground strap from the engine to the frame- - - -the heaviest current draw items it's grounding are headlights.

Thanks for the Info and Advisement, Jerry.

While doing a bit of Research, I found this Post from November of last year, in regards to a Question about 6 volt Starters:I'll make sure I follow your Advice regarding the Connections and such, but I'm thinking that maybe all my Start Attempts on the Blue Funk may well have worn out the Starter.

You received some good advice here. If the cables are right, connections are clean and everything is up to snuff, a 6v system should function with no problems. What I'm wondering about is I noticed in your signature that you're running a '57 235. If you're running the '57 starter/flywheel then it's made for 12v, not 6v. Just curious.

Good observation from Old Gold. If you have a 12 volt starter it will be slow and hot! At 6 volts anyway. If that is the case, you will have to decide what way to go. Convert to 12 volts, or change the flywheel and starter to 6 volts.

Try to find a part number on the starter, and it will be pretty simple to cross-reference it to see which voltage it's designed for. If, indeed it is a 12 volt item I've got the 6V flywheel and starter you would need for a swap, rather than doing a 12V conversion.
Jerry

Jerry, do you EVER get tired of Being Right?

I took off the Negative Battery Ground Switch, since I recall, possibly by you, that each Connection can decrease the Power Output by 10%. The Negative Strap with the Cut Off Switch had a Total of Four Connections: Frame to strap, Strap to Switch, Switch to Clamp, and Clamp to Battery Post. The Original Strap has but Two Connections: Frame to Strap and Clamp to Battery Post, so I Hooked Up that One.

I Cleaned and Tightened all the Connections and Voila! the Blue Funk started, relatively easy, on about a Half a Dozen Test Starts!

Now, I also found in the Process that the Engine to Frame Negative Ground Strap was Loose, so I Cleaned and Tightened that One. I wonder: Could that have been part of the Problem?

Thanks for your Advice and Instructions, Jerry.

Sorry- I initially missed the last Posts that Mike, Steve, and Jerry made regarding the 6v Starter.

Thanks for Pointing Out Other Possible Areas I could Consider in my Attempts to Deal with this Situation.

Fact is, I appreciate Everyone's Input- Thanks so much!

Davey, my wife read your post, and reminded me of something I told her nearly 40 years ago when we were dating:

"Once, long ago, I thought I was wrong, but I was mistaken!"

She says, no, I never get tired of being right! Now, that's not my opinion, just one from "she who must be obeyed"!

Glad things worked out well! Yes, any loose or dirty connection, either hot or ground, adds resistance, and a 6 volt system just doesn't have any voltage to spare to overcome it. That's one of the main reasons the manufacturers went to 12 volts in the mid-1950's- - - -there's more room for error with twice the voltage available.
Jerry

Similarly: "You can agree with me- or you can be wrong."

I needed to go back to The Basics on this One, eh?

Now I'm dealing with the Accelerator Linkage. I got the Clip to keep from popping off by replacing it with a sturdy old one I found. But now, the Pedal sticks and I have to pull the Foot Pedal out with my Foot or Hand at times. The sticking is sporadic and I haven't delved into it much, aside from spaying some Lubricant on the moving/rubbing parts.

Otherwise, I'm pretty pleased with the Blue Funk's performance and have made a few short trips with no major incidents occurring.

Thanks again.

Regarding the sticking pedal, I had a similar problem with mine and bent the accelerator rod so that it passed through the hole in the toe board in a strait line rather than starting high and moving low creating friction in the felt. It appears that the PO bent it for some unknown reason.
Carl

Look for any obvious rub points and trim or bend things to avoid them. Sometimes the throttle plate will drag inside the carburetor bore and make it difficult for the linkage to return to the same position every time, but I'm pretty sure I checked for that before I sent the carb along to you. It's possible that a slightly tighter return spring will solve the problem, as long as it doesn't make the pedal too stiff to push smoothly.
Jerry

Could very well be that I need to do the same, Carl. The Pedal Rod was bent when the Big Rig T-Boned me and I did have to do a little Unbending in order to attach the Rod to the Bell Crank. Maybe a little more Modifying is in order....

Thanks, Carl

The Accelerator Arm moves easily Up and Down. I noted that when the Arm was at its Apex, the Linkage Clip was sort of Pushed Off. As I mentioned before, I switched Clips with the Original Old One from the Bell Crank which seems to be more Heavy Duty and thus far has not been Pushed Off, as of yet.

I'll play around with it Tonight and keep you apprised of the Status.

This was exactly the same scenario which was causing my throttle to stick, so I bent the rod a bit and that took care of the problem. Thanks, Carl!

On another note, while I was gathering data for my problem-solving process, I checked out my NAPA FLAPS and found I could order and get a Rebuilt Starter at a really inexpensive price. The core charge was only about $18, so I told the Parts Man, "For that price, I'll eat it!

I put in the Rebuilt Starter and it seems to have a bit more power and the engine seems to start more easily.

The Rebuilt Starter did not have a hole in the Shift Lever for the Return Spring. Instead of dismantling the Drive Housing right off the bat in order to change the Shift Lever, I installed the Rebuilt Starter as is.

I did note, during one test start, that the starter drive did not fully disengage, so I took the Return Spring and wrapped it AROUND the Shift Lever. This seems to adequately pull the Shift Lever back and disengage the Starter Drive once released. I realize this may not be the most prudent tact to take, but if I have any problems, I'll take the Shift Lever off the old Starter and install it on the Rebuilt Starter.

Or, if anybody can see any reason why these two should not continued to be joined together, let him post now or ...whenever!

Now, on to Other Areas requiring Attention.

Thanks again!