The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Crank pulley size with 216 water pump on 235

So I got my cracked block 216 out last weekend. 235 is fresh, all painted and just finishing some details. Question is, I am using the plate adapter method for water pump with 216 pump.
Can I use the crank pulley on the 235? It's bigger. I am not using stock fan. I am, and have been using a stainless perma cool model. The 216 seemed to spin slow, although it didnt overheat. Will I ruin anything? Also running 12v alternator. Thanks, Phil...

Main issue is what width belt, so all pulleys need to match up. I'm running alternator on my 261, not an issue but make sure you know how to wire it up to existing wiring. Alt will have a narrow belt/pulley.

I used the water pump adapter plate, the original 216 damper pulley and changed the pulley on my 12 v alternator to a 5/8 inch width. I did have to search for a belt. I think I found one at an IHC dealer. Jerry

My '52 216 used a 5/8" belt. I converted to 12v alternator and switched to a 3/8" belt. The 53 216 used 3/8" belt and hence water pump. I had a dual groove dampener made to accept the 3/8" belt. Much easier to find accessories with 3/8" pulleys than the old 5/8" belts.

So, water pumps for the 216 can be had in either 3/8" or 5/8". Since, you are already using the 216 pump on the 235.

I appreciate the great responses, however, my question is still unanswered. I have the 216 dampner pulley, the 235 dampner pulley, water pump 216 and alternator. All are 3/8. That is not the concern.
I was wondering if because of the larger diameter of the 235 dampner it will spin the water pump faster, and in turn the fan.
I read hear somewhere that the fan could crack, but again, I'm using a more modern fan as listed above.
Will i ruin the fan, the pump, or cause any damage?
Or, is is better to pull the pulley off the 216 and pound it onto the 235. Thanks all, Phil

Your question in the first post: "Can I use the crank pulley on the 235?"

You can use the 216 crank pulley (crankshaft harmonic balancer) on the 235 engine. Be sure to "pound it onto the 235" by tapping it in the center portion of the balancer.

You may want to take a look at "Hot Rod Lincolns" article about creating a balancer with a twin groove pulley as long as you are using 3/8" alt and water pump pulleys already. I am interested in that because immediately after I win the lottery, I WILL add air conditioning Jerry.

I believe this question of pulley size has been addressed before and the answer is the larger diameter balancer with the older size water pump pulley will be a problem. The 216 balancer should mount just fine on the 235 crankshaft.

I found out a few things that are worth mentioning here. Take it or leave it.

If you have a 216 engine to look at, you will notice the fan is about centered on the radiator. The truck was designed that way for a reason. If you put a new style 235/261 motor in your AD era truck, after you have figured out how to put a shorter shaft pump on it, you will notice the fan is 3 inches lower than the original 216 setup. Air actually gets pulled from UNDER the radiator with the new engine, causing a POSSIBILITY of overheating.

This is where a gazillion opinions yay or nay come up on if that's a real factor. So, if you are building a new restoration, Pre68Dave has a great adapter plate that moves the water pump back to where it belongs and eliminates the entire issue. So if you are not sure, err on the side of caution and pay the $50 to save wear and tear on your radiator, engine block, etc.

The other issue is the dual pulley HB. BOTH of the standard air conditioner add on companies that are popular think its just fine to have one pulley on the HB, then two pulleys on the AC compressor, running one pulley as your current system works, and the other one to your alternator. So, when your compressor fails, your alternator is just as dead. I do NOT like this idea, so feel that a person needs a dual pulley HB. The HB I have found that has two pulleys and fits right on your new style 235/261 crank is from Vintage Air and its over $400. My good friend Jerry.. Hotrod Lincoln as he likes to call himself on our Chevy forum for some god-only knows reason.. knows his stuff and is working to resolve this problem. I am very hopeful his solution is the answer! Thanks Jerry! Real answers for some of your current needs on these trucks are few and far between. This one really matters for a lot of people out there.

"Hotrod Lincoln" is my favorite karaoke tune, after a drink or three! "Teach", the handle I use on a couple of other forums was already taken when I joined Stovebolt, so I had to think up another one.
Jerry

Deve:

We have debated your concern that if the compressor fails, the alternator fails. It is not just the aftermarket a/c guys that do this, but just about every single auto maker on the planet does the same thing with serpentine belts. If one accessories fails, everything fails. I simply don't see the concern and beside, that is what maintenance is for. Most bearings give warning before complete failure.

And yes, I understand that many a/c compressors have their own belt apart from the main belt...but the idea is the same.

The question that it seems is being ignored is the concern about pulley speeds. Yes, the larger diameter crankshaft pulley will spin the water pump faster. There are a couple of methods of dealing with the problem. First, and most difficult, will be pressing the 216 pulley off the water pump shaft and replacing it with a larger diameter 235 pulley. It's a hydraulic press operation on and off, not a BFH procedure. The mechanical seal in the water pump simply will not tolerate any hammering. There might also be a concern about shaft diameters, requiring the pulley or the fan hub for a bolt-on pulley to be machined to the correct press-fit diameter for the 216 water pump shaft.

A simpler method to prevent pump impeller cavitation is an old trick the round track racers used to use on flathead Ford V8 water pumps. Grind the pump impeller vanes to about half their normal height, or simply remove every other impeller vane. This reduces the volume the pump tries to flow, and prevents the coolant from boiling inside the pump from vacuum created by the higher impeller speed. It was a common problem we dealt with on the round track engines that were turning a couple of thousand RPM faster than old Henry designed his engines to run.

Using an alternator instead of a generator solves the other problem- - - -generator windings being thrown out of the armature due to overspeeding the generator. Alternators turn at much higher speeds than generators without any damage to the rotor windings.
Jerry

The newer cars/motors with Serpentine belts are much more reliable and longer lasting. Its more of a feeling for me than a statement of fact. I just don't feel comfortable running my alternator via the AC compressor. To each their own. I had the opportunity to replace the HB with a dual pulley system and the truck was all apart so made it easy to do. Had the truck been all together, I may have just resigned myself to plan B.

Jerry, never mind all this water pump jibber-jabber, are there any recordings that you can post of you singing "Hotrod Lincoln"? I am certain that we can take a collection for the beer required for you to record it.
Carl

LOL! If I make it to Kansas City this year, maybe I could be persuaded!

Jerry

Whose version of Hotrod Lincoln do you Karaoke, Jerry?

The Commander Cody version is the one most of the karaoke operators around my area have, but I like the Charlie Ryan one better.. Charlie actually built a Model A coupe with a Lincoln V12 in it- - - -not the "V8" in the Commander Cody song.

"Hotrod Lincoln" was an "answer" song to "Hot Rod Race" by Arkie Shebley, where "Me and that Mercury were side-by-side!" I actually owned a warmed-over 47 Mercury for 13 years with a bunch of Dad's leftover dirt track racing parts on it. It was quite a sleeper- - - - -I surprised more than a few 55 Chevvies with it!
Jerry

Thanks Jerry for the explanation. Makes sense. I am going to swap out the HB and use the one form the 216.

On a further note I just finished the Adapter Plate setup. Dave does a great job on these. Laser cut and fits 100% perfect. Here's some pics that may help some of you in the future...

http://www.fiftee6.com/Water%20pump%20adapter%20plate%20install/
thanks all, Phil...

Thanks for the pictures Phil. I'm getting ready to do mine, so this really comes in handy.
Steve

Nice step by step pictures!