The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Apache 4 spd swap

Hey everyone, first time posting on this forum. I just picked up my 59 apache 3100 last weekend, the truck is all original except it has a 350/th350 swapped in. I would like to swap in a 4 speed but I'm not sure what the best trans would be for this. All the original linkage and clutch stuff was removed so I'm kinda starting from scratch with putting it back to manual. Would a T10 be a good trans for this swap?

Chevy trucks 1947 to 1967 used the SM420 it's a top loader 4 speed stick.

The super T10 Tranny has the shifter linkage on the side. The hole in the floor of the tranny cover with a bench seat, may be a problem. you might want to measure the difference.

http://www.novak-adapt.com/knowledge/sm420.htm

http://1bad6t.com/images/trans/t10_1833.jpg

What trans would you recommend? I'd rather not use a trans with low gearing like the 420 or 465.

why in particular do you want a 4 speed? why not the original 3 speed?

Bill

Honestly if it had the 3 speed I'd be ok with that but since it's auto now and I'll be starting from scratch I figure I might as well do a 4 speed. I want to keep it kinda period correct and I definitely don't want an automatic

"period correct" would be the column shift 3 speed, pretty rare to find the 4 speed in a short 1/2T .... you do know the difference between the 3 and 4 speed trannys is the relatively useless granny low on the 4 speed? both have a 1:1 high gear

Bill

And that would be why I wanted to do a Muncie or t10 in the first place. By period correct I meant a 3 or 4 speed. I have no intentions of making this a typical "street rod" with a newer 5 speed or 6speed let alone an automatic

Its been modified already, why not put something in that is going to make it better. A T-5 5 speed will look more correct than a Muncie or Borg Warner 4 speed. The shifter for the T5 will be in the center, the other 4 speeds are going to take some work with the floor. With the T5 you will have OD and make things much nicer from cruising.

I'm building a '56 3100 and I have a Saganaw 4-speed out of a Camaro behind a SBC with a T&F Shifter that puts the shifter almost in the SM420 stock location. I'm not on the road yet, but I like the way it looks (tall shift lever that looks like the SM420 shifter) and it shifts very smooth. I'm using the stock engine mounts (2 at the front and 2 on the bell housing with the tranny just hanging).

Mike B

What is a T&F shifter, never heard of that before.

google is your friend Tommy [sometimes ] company from Oregon, who don't seem to have a website, so you'd have to find it at a distributor:
http://www.hotrodscustomstuff.com/OLD_SITE/TFshifter.html only $450


Bill

I'm confused by these follow up post. I have a 59 apache with a saganaw 4 speed that I'm fairly certain is "period correct" and the factory tranny. Am I mistaken? If not then these are plentiful, cheap and would be easy for him to to bring back to stock?

I hadn't really considered the T5 as an option but it seems they can be had for 200-300. What would be the best donor for that trans? Also would that require any other work to make it fit other then what the 4 speeds would?

The t5 shifter position looks to be kind of far back, would that work since my truck still has the original bench seat?

You have to think about what you want and where you get it. Some of the t5's have the shifter a little farther forward than others. Some out of the S10's fit but hard to find. If I were wanting the latest technology yeah I'd go for a T5. But there are still lots of the old muncies out there from the old GM muscle cars available without the low granny 1st gear. I just did a craigslist search last night and found 4. Just got to figure which you want and how much time and money you want to spend.

I don't expect everyone will want to do their truck the same as mine but there are lots of ways to do it. Larry

Joshm,

Chevrolet didn't put the Sagamaw 4-speeds in any TF trucks (55-59), they didn't come out until 1966. The Saganaw that I have in my '56 I believe is 70's vintage.

Mike B

Whoops! Was sleepy when I posted apparently. I meant a four speed synchromesh could be had for cheap And would be correct for the truck.

Thanks bill, that looks kind of nice but $$$$.

I guess by "correct for the truck" you need to define what the OP will be doing with his truck. It's a term in my opinion which can be used loosely to mean "old truck with a straight shift, 3 or 4 spd, transmission". It makes no difference what transmission is used, just the end result.

Now, with my old truck, 58 GMC, I've changed the engine using all the original drive train including clutch linkage etc. so that if someone in the future wants to change it back its easily possible. Now the OP's truck has the tb350 auto in it and most of the time all or some of the stock mounting and linkage parts are gone making going back to original harder and more expensive. I'm not a diehard restoration person like some of you guys but I do love the look of these old trucks. Sometimes you just got to do what you got to do to make a go of it just to have one of these to drive and enjoy. I'm with the OP on this as far as automatics go. I'd much rather have the straight shift behind what ever engine is in it. So maybe if someone has some of those old parts laying around lets help out a fellow bolter. If he needs it I've got the flywheel and some of the linkages he'll need and he can have them no charge. Just the way I am. Larry

Do some research, look at some stock trucks, get a shop manual and perhaps an assembly manual before you decide to put it back to stock. In many cases the rear cross member has been removed for an automatic trans and as mentioned the clutch parts are missing. There is a good chance the stock front mounts have been changed to side mounts. In this instance the engine will not even be in the stock location. You will have additional issues with a driveshaft as well. There are still a lot of stock parts out there but I would recommend rounding them all up before you tear a running vehicle all apart.
Fred
It appears that this post has been duplicated in "driveline" so much of this has been covered already.

I'm not really concerned with putting it back to stock, i just want to swap the automatic TH350 out for a floor shifted manual trans. I would be happy with any 4 speed or maybe even a 5 speed. i'm not building this truck to win any shows, just a fun old truck to cruise around in and drive a few times a week.
I plan on keeping the 1970 350 in it until i can build a 327 up for it. i'm going to get the cross member to do the side engine mounts and fab up a rear crossmember for whatever trans i end up going with.

I remember a guy when I was young who put a 4 speed in his 58 or so 1/2 ton, he used the stock 3 speed on the column shifter setup. Somehow he had a rod or cable or something under his stock bench seat to activate reverse. I always thought that was pretty dang cool, reusing the stock shifter and column and all, I never got under the truck and sure wish I had.

let me explain in case that post unclear, he had a regular H pattern adn all 4 forward gears "on the tree". Where reverse is on stock "3 on the tree) was now 1st, down toward knee was 2nd, up through the neutral gate towards rear view mirror was 3rd and down again towards knee (below 3rd) was 4th gear. It was so neat. He'd reach under his bench to find reverse and he was always driving it, so none of us ever thought to inspect how he snagged reverse gear.