ok....these explanations really help. I was trying to explain timing to my son-in-law and realized I wasnt sure of the terms. So I quess that in the original question....12 degrees changed to 8 degrees the setting is now 8 degrees advanced ( a change of 4 degrees retarded). Any setting before TDC is advanced and any after is retarded, but I "retarded" the timing 4 degrees fron the original 12 degrees....that is what I was thinking and trying to explain to him but the more I tried the more confused we both got. Thanks guys... great place to pick brains here...

For best power is a setting closer to TDC the best choice???