The Stovebolt Site Forums The Parking Lot Panels 'N Burbs gas tank question

I'm putting everything back together and I'm wondering about exactly where the tank goes. I have the original hangers, properly fastened to the floor and frame. Everything looks good but I'm having trouble getting the filler neck to connect to the tank. My rubber connector hose is 3" long. Is that long enough? It's the same one that was on it. The angle of the one filler neck is off from the other part. How far out from the outside does the filler neck protrude? I am thinking 3".

This is your tank, a "NOS" unit:

Panel Truck Gas Tank

This is your rubber hose. It is about twice as long as your frame is wide:

Panel Truck Filler Neck Hose

This is your filler neck, without the body rubber grommet:

Panel Truck Gas Filler Neck

Your support brackets and tank straps connect to your frame only. There should be no attachments to the underside of your body. This is important. Your body will rock around and tear loose any gas tank supports.

There should be ample room around your filler neck for the body, soft pliable body grommet, your connecting hose needs to be very flexible to allow for body rock.

Billyray

Here is an inherent problem with an OEM saddle tank. When you go around a corner, full tank of gas, your tank will slosh gas out from under the cap. Make sure you have a tight fitting, leak proof gas cap.

Other problem is a lack of a vent. Modern gas pumps, least here in left liberal California, will not pump in gas unless you pull back that accordion like rubber hose on the end of a gas pump nozzle.

You need to carefully watch the gas being pumped in. First sign of "backing up" of gas, stop, no more gas. Air bubbles will rush up and cause a fine spray of gas to come out. Very annoying.

A cure is what I am doing. Filler point is just inside the rear passenger side back door, on the side of the body within one of those rectangular body cavities. You can do a custom job with one of those billet aluminum gas fillers, type with a lid, allows for nice foam padded upholstery to surround. Depending on how much work you are willing to invest, you can buy hose, 1 inch to 1 1/4 inch, to run down to wherever under your panel body. Keep this high as possible for long as possible for your run. I am running mine over the wheel well. Drop down somewhere, adapt to the larger size filler neck on your tank. This type of system will work with those idiotic fool proof EPA pumps. Drawback is filling your tank from inside your vehicle. However, when you are real show car freak, you will be holding a diaper around your filler, holding your breath and keeping a close eye.

A fancy installation includes a vent running up from your tank filler neck area to your actual filling point. A 3/8 - 1/2 inch hose works nice. Other alternative is to buy a fuel gauge sending unit with a vent built in alongside your fuel take up tube. Hard to find. You can braze in a bung fitting, a bit dangerous on a used tank, no problem on a new tank. A good cure is to drop five pounds of "dry ice" inside your tank, wait a few minutes then weld quickly. The CO2 will prevent ignition or will at least reduce the explosion to survival level, might lose your eyebrows and some forehead hair, no big deal. Smells bad, though.

Car show cultists will look at a fuel gauge, estimate number of gallons remaining in the tank, then only add enough gas, watching the gallons slowly roll over, for a 3/4 full tank to avoid any risk of splash out. Don't bother watching the price; flies by and always stops on "Arm & Leg" no matter how little gas you pump.

I am installing duel tanks in my panel, two OEM style tanks to avoid this 3/4 tank thing and for distance driving. Those tanks do not hold very much gas, not at all; two are truly needed.

Billyray

1953Panel(Leo) isn't your panel a 1/2 ton?? if it is then I believe the tank picture Bilyray has in not like our half tons. It looks to long. Also, if your is a half ton then the tank straps attach to the frame AND to the underside/through the plywood floor. Mine is just like yours IF its a half ton.

If its not a half ton then disregard everything I said

Just for info.... the filler neck on my half ton has a little curve in it and the rubber connector hose is about 3 inches like you suggested. I have my old original laying around somewhere.... So, is your a half ton Leo?

Achipmunk squeaks, "1953Panel(Leo) isn't your panel a 1/2 ton?"

Mine is a 1952 half ton. I made a presumption a 1953 will be the same. Maybe not. Don't know, gas tank listing is common for roughly 1948 to first series 1955. However, what you find out on the web is suspect, have to be careful. I am fairly certain at least 1950 through 1954 are the same. I think first series 55 is the same.

I will go down to my shop and take some measurements, then post this in a few minutes. You can compare.

On frame versus body attachment, one or the other, not both. Reason for this is the frame is in a "fixed" position relative to a body. Your panel body has rubber pads incorporated into the body mounts. This allows for twisting and turning; body rock. This body rock will stress your tank mounts if attached to both the frame and the body. Attaching to both the frame and the body is generally not a good idea, even if you add rubber cushions.

For safety, one or the other, not both. Dumping a fuel tank on asphalt under your truck, at sixty miles per hour, is bad mojo.

Awesome looking results, best flame throwers ever, but what a mess this makes and is only a one time show. I don't think the Auto Club could rescue you from this one.

Billyray

An OEM panel truck tank is 31 inches in length, 11 inches wide, 13 inches deep. In theory, this is a 19 gallon tank. This is in keeping with claims of GM for the time period and matches up with a "behind-the-seat" tank truck. Usually you can only get in about 16 to 17 gallons before slosh out becomes a problem.

How does this compare to yours? Is yours OEM or a gray market replicate tank?

For trivia, I have seen a lot of these where some stringless yo-yo has connected the fuel line to the drain plug front bottom edge. This plug is about 2 inches or so off the bottom. Limits tank capacity to about 15 gallons unless you are always driving down a steep hill. Going back up this hill becomes problematic.

Billyray

Billyray, I will have to check but I believe my tank is a 12/13 gal tank. I have the original and it is completed wasted. Rotted away but enough to get measurements from. My 52 panel and my friends here in town both have the brackets that bolt to the frame and then two that "turn up" to the floor. Then a bolt, with an offset washer hole, and recessed into the floor from above, that goes down and through a brace. I can't remember the length of the tank right off the top of my head, and its to late for me to go to the shop. Perhaps it was just the angle of the photo.
Anyway, in a few minutes I'll post a pic of a tank I have for sale that is the same dimensions/shape as the one I took out of my panel.

Alvin

This tank is exactly like the one that was rusted away in my panel.... and I might add that the reproduction tanks that JimCarter started having made last year is exactly like this one....down to every crease/bend!!
Below is the add I place a while back with the pics.

This is a gas tank I had bought for my 1/2 ton 52 Panel. I have sand blasted it on the outside but it needs cleaning on the inside. There is some tiny pinholes from the bead blasting and the front end of it is dented. There is some JBweld or lead or something right where the gas line hooks up. It is tough as it would/did not blast off in the bead blasting cabinet.
I had intended to vat it out and use the POR15 liner in it and paint the outside with POR15... but the kids came through and helped me buy a new one. $50 Plus shipping and thats less than I gave for it. Send PM if interested.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/shacklebolt004.jpg

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r19/LutherParris/52Panel/shacklebolt003.jpg


Edited by Achipmunk (Wed Mar 17 2010 09:07 AM)
_________________________
I had rather walk carrying a StoveBolt hubcap than ride in anything else... especially a Ferd.

Achipmunk adds, "If its not a half ton then disregard everything I said"

No difference in tanks between 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton, and 1 ton. Almost all 2 ton to 3 ton, during the time period, have the same size tank, GM standard issue 19 gallon, with two gallons sloshing out.

Really big trucks, big engine, often diesel, frequently will have side frame saddle tanks, I think in the 30 gallon to 50 gallon range. Never had the pleasure of working on one of those.

Standard pickup, for this time period we are discussing, behind the seat 19 gallon. For panel trucks, 19 gallon between frame members. My 1948 GMC 3 ton has the standard issue behind the seat 19 gallon tank, same common GM tank, including sending unit. GMC, Chevy, no difference; production line tank.

Payload does not make a difference in fuel tanks until you get up into the really big trucks. This is beyond stove bolt and big bolt, this is gigantic bolt.

Anyone know if GM offered optional larger fuel tanks? Highly unlikely a tank smaller than 19 gallons was offered during the time period.

Billyray

Well, its late but I went out to the shop and measured the tank. It is "approx" 13" high, 13 inches deep ....but it is only 25 inches outside to outside which includes the flange....the "body" of the tank is more like 24".

These tanks, I believe, are only for the 1/2 ton panel, surburban and canopy express but not 100% positive. But I am positive the tank I took off, the tank I now have, and the tank made for the 1/2 ton panel/burb/ce are the same as the measurements above.

Tim, George, where you at?!!

Achipmunk writes, "This is a gas tank I had bought for my 1/2 ton 52 Panel."

Yep. A standard issue 19 gallon tank, precisely the same as mine except mine is new although over a half century old.

Sure enough messed up on the front leading side. That brass fitting high up is not factory nor is the fitting on the bottom. OEM has an 1/8 inch NPT thread drain bung, center front edge, about 2 inches or so off the bottom.

If your tank does not leak, good to go. You can pump it up with compressed air then bathe it with soapy water to test for leaks. A good find for you, those tanks are almost impossible to find, at a reasonable price. Took me two years to find mine to use as a second tank. Had to pay $300 for my New Old Stock tank.

There is a company which makes after market stainless steel tanks for our panels, starting price, $650. Aluminum tank way more, painfully more. Way too much cost for my taste.

Bowtie Bits sells a duplicate tank at $695. Listed as 1947 through 1955. This would be first series 1955. Different with the second series trucks.

You can look at this expensive tank here:

Bowtie Bits Tank

I do not have a clue why this is listed as a 13.5 gallon tank unless it is actually smaller. I don't think so, looks the right dimensions. Probably a mistake in the listing.

Billyray

Achipmunk writes, "...are only for the 1/2 ton panel, surburban and canopy express but not 100% positive."

Canopy Express! Might be a tank for one of those. Like you, I am becoming more unsure. I am not so old to not question myself.

OK, I stand corrected. Went out and crawled under my old panel, 25 inch length as you write. I always thought that puppy ran out of gas way too soon. Even checked around for a fuel leak. This would be roughly a 13 gallon tank. Bowtie Bits has the size correct.

Looks I got a better bargain than I thought. Plenty of room under there for a 31 inch tank.

Good we discussed this, clearly I am way off on this and you are right on target. I made a logical argument but did not have this quite right. This is good information for readers; different size tanks on panels, no clue why this difference, maybe as you write, 1/2 ton versus 3/4 ton truck.

Fuel gauge does not work in my panel, now I know why I ran out of gas a few times when I thought I should not, blamed this on kids siphoning my gas!

Thanks for correcting me, this is valuable to all of us.

I am sticking with my frame / body mount thing. Not this way in my 1952 1/2 ton. Don't think I will touch this topic, probably full of surprises as well.

Billyray

The NOS tank may be for a one ton Panel/Suburban/Canopy Express. There were no 3/4 ton 1947/55 Panels/Suburban/Canopy Expresses built. Only 1/2 ton and 1 ton units.

For some reason that longer tank filler neck looks to be wrong for the panel. It should have the same curve as the one Alvin has. This may have been for a 1 1/2 ton or larger grain truck that had the saddle tank on the outside. I have seen all three tanks, but did not take pictures of the difference. The 1954/55 tank may be slightly different and the sending unit is definitely different. The pickup tube is with the sending unit on the 1954/55 Panel/Suburban/Canopy Express. The 1947/49 pick up trucks gas tanks were also mounted underneath the bed, they had a slightly different filler neck and tank dimensions.


JIM CARTERS CATALOG PRICE FOR TANK

Here's a picture from bowtietims suburban. It's a new tank from Jim Carter. BOWTIETIMS TANK * HIS ALBUM ON THE GAS TANK AND STRAPS


OLD LINK ON THE SAME SUBJECT

ANOTHER LINK ON GAS TANKS

Tim can chime in too! I think he confirmed the gas tanks to be 16 gallons for the 1/2 ton and 18 gallons for the 1 ton. He also says the 1947/48 pickup tank is a 17.5 gallon tank and is different than the 1947/55 Panels/Suburban/Canopy Expresses

GMONIZ writes, "For some reason that longer tank filler neck looks to be wrong for the panel."

Nah, the same or close. Photographs can be deceptive. An example is this tank in your album looks much deeper than one I have. I am certain the depth is the same. If too long, plenty there to trim off. I discovered there is ample space for this larger 31 inch tank, might have to slide it forward a few inches.

Only difference between the 13 gallon and my 19 gallon is length, 25 inches versus 31 inches. Gallon difference for this works out right, 5 extra gallons, just over 19 but very little. GM would call this a 19 gallon tank.

Definitely not an "outside" frame mount. All those oddball dimples and bends match with yours, including the bends to clear the tank straps along with the sending unit hole. I would bet a 1 ton frame is quite a bit longer than a 1/2 ton.

Your photograph 2 of 11 shows what is missing on my truck, two support brackets going up to the plywood floorboard. All else is the same including the straps wrapping over the tank then connected to the frame. This is why I believed those tanks are not connected to the body. I still believe this is a bad idea but I can see where there would be flex in those straps going up to the floorboard.

Checked Jim Carter a couple of years back, maybe three. Did not come across a tank. Maybe a new addition or I simply missed this. His $350 price is reasonable. I buy a lot of parts from Carter, only complaint is they are slow to ship.

I am assuming what he sells is the 13 gallon version. I am tickled to have a 19 gallon tank. I sure enough understand now why I ran out of gas a few times, something just didn't seem right about this. Usually I can guesstimate how far I can go on 19 gallons with an old 235 engine, always within a few gallons. My tank is 5 gallons smaller than I thought.

My 13 gallon will now end up on the driver's side as a secondary tank. This will make clearing the driveshaft much easier; more wiggle room with a shorter length tank.

Sure glad this topic came up, certainly learned a lot of important information, changes a lot of my plans, and I feel better about the $300 price tag I paid, bigger bargain than I knew.

This new information makes participating here worthwhile.

Billyray

After doing some research, I have to disagree with TL The tanks are 13 gallons for the 1/2 ton and 18 gallons for the one ton and reading my old posts, I did see all three tanks side by side and the 47/48 pickup tank and the suburban/panel tank were very close to being the same and the one ton tank and the grain truck tank were also similar in size and shape.

I wish I looked closer at my frame and gas tank on the suburban today when I was at the shop, but I don't think the 18 gallon tank will fit in the space. I am going back up on wednesday and will look again.

If it does, I will get one of the tanks from Tyler, I had him save the tanks when were scrapping out the yard. At least 15 tanks were sitting near the fence, all in good shape, I could only save three of them, no more room.

Tim had posted THIS ONE from a 1954 1 ton Panel. Chevrolet called it an 18 gallon tank.

Bit of an interesting story on the origin of our panel truck. Came out of the Central Valley of California. Looked for quite a few years to find a panel worth restoring. Finally found this one on Ebay.

I call the boy, ask about the truck. Tells me the truck runs fine, "You can drive the truck." I believe him, those old Chevy trucks run forever. Explain to him we will hop a ride to Fresno, rent a car then drive out to his town, some little cow fart place, cannot remember the name. Tell him we will drive the truck back down to Southern California. My wife loves a travel adventure, likes staying in a fancy hotel room.

Boy says to me, "Oh no, you cannot drive the truck." I am confused, "Why not?" He simply says, "It bounces." We go round and round on this, finally get out him if you drive the truck faster than 25 or so, bounces off the road. Alright, fine, I will drag my fifth wheel trailer up there at 6 miles to the gallon.

Get up there out in the middle of nowhere, save for railroad tracks. Big fruit packing plant, about an acre in size building. Off season, none around, finally find the boy. He is a security guard, "Howdy, I'm Billyray, this here is Taha, we are here for the panel truck." My girl is already nervous, thinks this is a setup for robbery. She is usually right about these things.

He walks us around, big as a city inside. Lot of open space, big concrete pillars. Roof is a good fifty feet up. Skid marks all over the place, spinning donuts type skid marks. I ask about those, "I race my cars in here, I get tired of watching television. Come on, I'll show you." Walks us around, under tarps, bunch of cars, mostly Sixties. Couple of Impalas, a Stingray, few old trucks, all souped up hotrods, "I race my cars in here just like in the French Connection movie."

"Where's our panel truck?", I am fingering my wad of hundreds in my pocket, a big wad. He grins, "Over here." Boy walks us, seems like a half mile, walks us to a big plastic curtain. Passing through curtains, instantly freezing cold. He takes us into a huge refrigerator, big enough for fork lifts and tractor-trailer rigs. My girl grabs my arm, "Billyray, let's get out of here, this ain't right."

There's our panel. Parked next to the truck, a Pontiac GTO, a convertible, and an Oldsmobile 442 hardtop. This boy is a minimum wage security guard and has almost a million dollars in classic cars sitting in this city size fruit packing place, and racing those cars around like in a wild movie chase scene.

My girl, ornery girl, steps up, "Look, buster, I want to see a pink slip and registration." Don't know why she is so mistrusting, maybe because she is a Choctaw Indian. Darn if he doesn't produce paper work, looks real enough. My girl takes me aside, "Billyray, if not parked in this refrigerator, that truck is so hot it would be going up in flames." We debate for a time, decide to take a chance, good for parts at least. Give the boy his money, he scribbles on the pink slip, "Taha, you drive the truck outside, there is loading ramp out there we can use. I'll pull the trailer around." Truck fires right up, she gets out and walks around while the engine warms up after being half frozen.

Outside, I watch her pull out and head towards me. Sure enough, tiny little cracks in the asphalt get the truck bouncing so much it just about flies clean over the moon.

Later we learned all the leaves in the springs had been removed save for the main single leaves. Those eyelets on the ends had been heated with a torch until the ends were bent almost straight down. Frame was sitting right on top of the axles, no shock absorbers, removed so the frame could drop down.

A true low rider in the worst of ways. Got it registered OK, no problem there. My girl didn't like the motel room I got us over in Fresno, "Smells like cowboys and cows in here, bad enough I live with a cowboy." Tell her, "That's OK, I live with a cow."

Billyray

GMONIZ adds, "Tim had posted THIS ONE from a 1954 1 ton Panel. Chevrolet called it an 18 gallon tank."

Sure does look like the one I bought. I calculated the gallons based on cubic inches. Comes out about 19.1 gallons. However, you cannot fill a tank up completely with the filler neck down below the tank top, not easily anyhow. Probably is an 18 gallon for actual usage.

Boy howdy, those old trucks continue to surprise me. Just when I think I have a good handle on all of this, here comes a monkey wrench flying at my head. Usually that would be my girl.

All of you, I am responsible to say, "Thank you." Really have learned a lot from this discussion, glad I was wrong on this, worked out much better for all of us.

Billyray

Yes Alvin, my panel is a half ton, it is virtually identical to yours, just one year newer. My tank is an original tank exactly like Alvin's photo. Billyray, you mention about not fastening it to the body, that is not even possible as it sits between the frame rails, quite far from any part of the body. The tank brackets fasten to the frame, through the floor and the rear bracket bolts to the frame rail with 3 bolts. My question really was with connecting the actual tank to the filler neck, using the rubber connecting hose that is exactly 3" long. The angles of the two filler necks don't line up very well. I also was wondering exactly how far the filler neck protrudes from the body.

The 1/2 panel-body fuel-tank was 16 gal for all Advance-Design years and 18 gal on 1 ton panel-body trucks for all Advance-Design years.

As might be expected, the early A-D standard-cab trucks with between-the-frame gas-tanks had fuel capacity of 16 gal (for 1/2 and 3/4 ton) and 18 gal (for 1 ton). When the fuel tank went inside the cab, the fuel capacity reduced to 17.5 gallons.

As best as I can recall, the filler necks lined up OK when I restored my Suburban. I think I left the straps a little loose until every thing was lined up.

OK Tim, I stand corrected again. The gas tank is either a 16 gallon for the 1/2 ton Panel/Suburban/Canopy Express or 18 gallon for the 1 ton Panel/Canopy Express and the interior cab gas tank is 17 1/2 gallons used in pick ups.

All I had to do was look up all of my paperwork that I have collected for the past few years. I had made the 13 gallon mistake by looking at a Canadian manual. 16 US gallons = 13.3227814 Imperial gallons

I get over 200 miles on a tank of gas and that is usually a long enough distance that a break in driving is a relief. For where I travel, I see no need for a larger tank or an extra tank.

However, a friend went on a cross-country trip last summer in a 1953 GMC 1/2 ton with Hydra-Matic transmission. If he had only the 17.5 gal tank, there were stretches in the west where he would have had to use containers of gas (he installed a second thank under the bed).

Just for info..... Billyray, there was no repop tank for the panels until about last August. JimCarter had the repop made and Mike Taylor sent me a pic of it.... and he also had it at the Stovebolt Reunion in Kansas last year. I don't know who made it but the one I seen, AND the one I bought recently, are very good guage/quality. AS I mentioned in an earlier post it is exact down to the creases and indentions. Good job JC.

This tank deal is going around and around but I can add that I was/is suspect billyray's tank may be an outside the frame tank??? but I'm no official on it... but I had one a fellow bolter sent me that looked like his and it was an outside frame tank. Note: I tried it under my panel but don't remember all the details except for one and that was not enough room. I think it hit the crossmember in front and the neck wasn't right. I originally planned to have my son in law...who welded for years at a local company, and said he could cut it and zip it back up, guaranteed not to leak....and to fit. I decided against cutting up a nice tank and sent it on to another bolter.

Well, it was a good post anyway. Always learn something!!

The reproduction are as good as the oem gas tank.I don't remember what i typed about the capacities of the fuel tank.I left everything loose to get the fuel filler tube and tank to line up.I'm not sure how high the filler tube is suppose to be out of the body.I'd be interested i knowing how high the tube is suppose to extend past the body.I do recommend the aftermarket gas tank from Jim Carter.

Achipmunk comments, "...outside frame tank...not enough room."

You did not use a big enough hammer!

This time next year my panel will be a rolling frame. I will install the tank then. I am quite accustomed to slicing and dicing frames and crossmembers. That tank will be a comfortable snug fit. Between the 19 gallon and the 13 gallon, I should be able to make it from Southern California to the Bunny Ranch up near Reno on one fill up. Dropping in an old three speed with a pull cable overdrive to get there quicker.

Most unique job I did was shortening a 1958 VW Van. Took out one of the rear side doors, shortened that puppy about two feet, installed the extra door on the driver's side. Slid a Corvair six cylinder up its backside. Real eye catcher.

Billyray

We have confirmed through documentations, that the oem gas tank was either a 16 gallon or 18 gallon, not a 13 gallon. I am sure of this.

GMONIZ adds, "the oem gas tank was either a 16 gallon or 18 gallon"

inches: 31 long 11 wide 13 deep = 4433 cubic inches

4433 cubic inches = 19.2 gallons

Drop a gallon for dimples, bends and rounded corners, 18 gallons.

Smaller tank is 6 inches less in length, about 5 gallons. This would be the duplicate "13.5" gallon tank, or simply 13 gallons.

Never been able to pump more than 12 to 13 gallons into my small tank, obviously I cut it close on gas quite a few times.

Don't know about a 16 gallon tank but I am sure one was made, if anything to confuse people half a century later!

Billyray

Monday morning, took the whole bloomin' tank back out because I forgot the sending unit wire. Checked all the brackets, missed one bolt from the front bracket to the frame rail. Slipped the tank back in, put the rubber hose on and everything lined up. Everything is tightened up and I'm good to go. Thanks.

Leo

How far out did the filler stick out past the body?

Not far at all, at the most 3". It was tricky to fit the rubber trim around the filler neck and in the body. Had to use the rubber mallet.

I put the grommet in the body first.

The gas tank that Billyray shows is from a 1 ton. The gas tank that Achipmunk shows is from a half ton. The 1 ton tank is longer. The 1/2 ton tank is wider than the 1 ton tank. The 1/2 ton frame is wider than the 1 ton.

I tried that too but needed room to twist the filler neck around. All's well that ends well. Now I have to run the fuel line up to the carb.