The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Paint and Body Shop Doors Door Mystery - 52 3100

The driver side door springs open an inch or two when it is pushed closed (see first picture). The slightest finger push can close it (see second picture). I did an index card journey around the door opening and nothing is binding. For a while I was thinking it might be an interaction between a hinge and the "cage" that the hinge resides in. While I was using a fiber optic camera to look around the back side of the hinges, I got the idea that MAYBE it is the spring in the upper hinge. Gonna take that out and try it again after the new year.

While I am whining about my door woes (and hoping someone has seen the problem before), let me wish the best to all of you Stovebolters in this new year that is upon us.

Only thing I can think that I dealt with was the bolt on the pillar was too long and the collapsed closed hinge would just hit the bolt.
Thats on my 58/59 not sure if that has a it. Either that or the rubber.

I'm gonna guess it's the flat washers under the bolt heads. The original washers were star washers which are about half the thickness of flat washers. You should be able to see if the bolt heads are hitting the door with an index card. No weatherstrip installed yet, so it can't be that. Door alignment looks good.

Happy New Year to you as well, Pat.

Was there evidence that the door had been caught by a heavy wind, causing the outer cowl to be creased in by the front edge of the door?
This often causes the hinge pillar to get twisted, causing your problem.
Is your outer cowl and and inner cowl still just tacked in place to the hinge pillar?

When I had the cab blasted, indeed, the entire outer cowl had a crease mark. I THOUGHT I accounted for that when re-assembling cowl area but... guess not well enough. Too late to address it directly, but I have found a solution... refer to pictures below... If we allowed more space for the spring to retract, as the door is closed, then the upper hinge would come in closer to the body, allowing the door to completely close. I THINK I have proved the concept (see before and after pictures)... I proved that lengthening the spring run upon closure, resulted in less "spring out" of the door when it is closed.

I could keep lengthening the spring runs (top and bottom spring), until door closes without a finger push, but I don't know the consequences of doing that.

At this point, I think the weight of a fully loaded door will negate the tendency of the springs to "push back" when fully closed.

Wadayathink? and Thanks.

I think Carl hit the nail on the head. These two pics from your earlier post show the damage to the cowl, which pulled the outside edge of the hinge pillar forward. If it wasn't corrected before welding in the new part it would cause exactly what you're seeing. It could be fixed by drilling out the plug welds from cowl panel to hinge pillar and pulling the hinge pillar to the rear. It probably wouldn't take much movement to fix. FAM Section 1 Sheet 63.00 shows the section E-E thru the upper hinge with dimensions from the door edge opening to the face of the pillar.

But your adjustment of the spring slot in the hinge may fix it with less hassle. Hope that works out for you.

How lucky am I to have you guys on my side!!! If the community does not see a problem with elongating the hinge slot a little more, then I will proceed with elongation. The rest of the door seems to fit just fine. As I mentioned proviously, it really only takes the slightest finger touch to make it close al the way. That is why I THINK when the door is heavier, the little bit of spring tension won't matter... unless I am in for another suprise when we get to alll the rubber that surrounds the door.

Carl... am I going to regret not tearing out the driver side cowls and re-doing them after tweeking the hinge pillar? As far as I can tell, the rest of the door fits just fine... no problem aligning beltline... gaps are not perfect but that is for a later refinement. What are your thoughts?

Pat if you pull the spring out of the hinge, I think you could tell if elongating the slot is going to work.

Kevin... can you reuse the pin if you drive it out to remove the springs? The pins are new... recall that Jerry Kassis rebuilt my hiinges for me, so the pins are new.

The pins usually have a knurl just under the head to grab the stationary part of the hinge. Should work OK if removed. Or if it doesn't grab again, you could tack weld the head to the hinge frame.

Pat,
It doesn't sound like you have enough of an issue to warrant drilling out all of the welds at the rear edge of your outer coal and the inner cowl in order to twist your hinge pillar back into place.
What you may want to try is to remove the door and put a long pipe on the hinge straps and leverage the the hinge inboard a smidge.
This will bend the hinge pocket without distorting your cowl. It won't move the hinges piller, but it may well take they springiness out of the door closure. It doesn't sound like its going to take much movement of the hinge pockets to solve your problem.

If it were me, since it is only an inch or two, I would stick a 2x4 or something similar in the A pillar door jamb, then nudge the door shut. Remove 2x4 and check. If it still wasn't to my liking, I would repeat.

Agree with Mark's idea. It won't take much to eliminate that inch or so gap at the rear of the door. Be careful that you don't overdo it.

I am calling it "dun" for the driver side (picture enclosed)... this is as far as I want to go with the hinge hack of elongating the spring travel holes "in the closed position/direction". I know I did not take the time to align the beltline, but I have done it many times and I know I can do it right. I feel I can achieve complete closure of the door if I think I need to via external leverage (muscle and wood block for example) rather than tweeking the hinge spring holes. I also think that with a fully loaded door, the existing spring tension will not even be a factor.

Now on to the passenger side!

I have a need to make the passenger side door come out at the beltline (pictures when I next mount the door onto the cab) to meet the beltline of the cab. I am looking for advice in making that happen.

This is my observation: The hinge plate area at the pillar gives you "up and down" flexibility. The hinge holes at the door give you horizontal flexibility and some "tilt" flexibility.

So what actions give you the flexibility to make the door positioned more outward at the top hinge and subsequently, more inward at the rear, bottom of the door?

Thanks, as always

Pat, you can get a little horizontal movement out of the hinge plate bolts. That might be enough. Or you can elongate the holes a little more in the horizontal direction. The other option is bending the hinge bars, but I have no idea which way they'd need to be bent to move the door out. And besides, that would be hard to do.

I am going to fiddle with elongation of the holes and see what I get. Will report back in a few days. Thanks

I have elongated the bolt holes to fix that kind of misalignment. A nice air die grinder and a nice bit are your friends for this.

Carl... I did what you and Kevin suggested on the passenger side door. It worked out well. The door, at the front beltline is still slightly indented relative to the beltline on the front of the cab but the technique has been validated to work. I just need to elongate a little more. To summarize (pictures accompanying), On the upper hinge, we first shaved (slightly), the outer edge of the decorative hinge plate to enable the entire structure to move more outward. Next, we elongated the inner edges of the 3 bolt holes on the hinge to allow the entire hinge to slde outward when bolted onto the hinger pillar.

On the lower hinge, we did essentially the opposite to allow that lower hinge to slide more inward when bolted to the hinge pillar... that is, we shaved the inner edge of the decorative plate and the outer edges of the 3 bolt holes.

At this point, I am OK with the doors as they are. Please know that I intend to turn the cab over to a pro (at some point) for final adjustments, gap improvement and epoxy primer.

As always, I am thankful for the guidance and advice from my Stovebolt friends.

That looks good to me. Probably better aligned than it was when it was new.