The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop Why won’t it start?

Yes I’m still going to count the teeth but going to get a white grease pencil first!

I was thinking about the battery when I stated that, not the starter. The BATTERY on the truck when we bought it was a 6v᠁sorry guys, I am adding more grey hairs to my head. But I’m learning and loving every minute of it. So very thankful for you all and this forum! 🙏

Should not have had a 6V battery. The owner must have just installed the 1959 motor and didn't finish the "conversion"/install....or slapped a battery in there to look good for the sale....or did not know what he was doing.

You can tell by the pinion shaft/armature shaft diameter if you still have the starter. 1/2" for 12V, 5/8" for 6V. Probably was a 12V. you are good to go.

Caliper read .470, translation inches= 15/32, slightly less than 1/2”

12V

Not sure what year the truck is though Do you have a VIN plate, which was called a serial number? (inner cowl panel, driver side)
Do you have a title with a VIN?

It is a 1949 Chevy 3100. My husband and I found it on a Facebook classic truck site. It was in Birmingham, AL, and was the closest to us so he and my brother drove over to have a look. He bought it. The guy who sold it to him did not have a title but gave my husband a BOS with a serial number. I told him I would not have bought it without a title but he did knowing I wanted one. I had been looking for months. Shortly after, we both got COVID and had some family setbacks but I am going to request the title next week. Can you tell by the serial numbers if I give it? Also he did not have a key for it, which I hear is not unusual with these old vehicles. So I went to our local Chevy dealership to see if they could order one based on the serial numbers but the young people behind the counter did not have a clue᠁any advice??

Regarding what Martin has been saying: After sitting a long time, you need to be careful when first start. Sometimes things get "frozen" or don't get oiled quick enough. You have cranked the motor and not sure if it's getting oiled. Assume you checked oil and changed filter if it has one. Read the Tech Tip section re: start up of awakened motors. If you get back to trying to hear it run, just run it for long enough to know it runs. Need to install a oil pressure gauge on the motor. Direct plumb temporary gauge or original gauge, to be sure pressure is there. As I say, you have cranked it, hopefully it is oiling. Others will expand on this issue. Just want to be sure oil pump is working.
With what you have said, I would examine this motor and it's ignition components. Points, plugs, wiring vs firing order.............
All of this is normal, don't get discouraged.
Can you describe the sounds you heard when it sort of started? Any backfire? popping? smoking? did it actually fire? Do you have the fuel pump hooked up to the gas tank?...or disconnected? Running old gas is a NO NO.

https://www.stovebolt.com/techtips/engines/Dead%20Engine%20Start/index.html

Does it have the VIN plate I mentioned? You can put any year you want on a BOS, doesn't mean much. They are an unofficial official document. I never buy without a legit title. Your DMV will advise. you will be OK. You do need to get that done.

You are not going to find parts at a dealership. Local auto parts stores have some parts but you need to know what you need, they don't know. Get familiar with old truck vendors we all use. They specialize in just old trucks and are legit honest companies. Like Classic Truck Parts of America, Jim Carter..... and ask here for part numbers if you can't find a part. Most stuff is Chinese made. Old original part numbers are not usable. (excluding casting numbers and such).

Unfortunately, Alabama does not issue a title for older vehicles- - - -ownership transfer is by a bill of sale, possibly a notarized one. I was involved recently in the sale of a mid-1960's Plymouth muscle car to a buyer in Australia- - - - -$40K and done by a notarized BOS. You will probably need to check with your local department of motor vehicles to see what they require for getting a title and registration. There are lots of variations from state to state.

Since the earlier 139 tooth flywheel will bolt onto any stovebolt engine regardless of when it was made, the only way to be sure of a good match-up is to count the teeth on the flywheel ring gear.
Jerry

Remove the lock cylinder on the ignition switch or the entire switch and take to a old timer locksmith. He’ll have you a new key in about 15 minutes.

Bart: Yes it does have the VIN plate on the inside of the truck where you mentioned it should be.
Question: Picked up a oil pressure test kit from Tractor Supply that has several different fittings. I’m asking where is the best place to test it? Does it goes where the oil filter is? if so will that test the engine oil pressure? Thanks in advance!

The sound is like a “hard start” like it’s really trying to start.᠁no backfire, or popping really. Yes it fired once! There is a little smoke. We used fresh ethanol free gas from a clean jug, (not from the truck tank) we blew out the metal fuel line and tried to see if the fuel pump was working but couldn’t really tell since it didn’t start, so we abandoned that and bought a flexible fuel line and attached funnel to end and other end to carburetor.

OK᠁I COUNTED TEETH on FLYWHEEL and got 139. I counted 3 times and got the same number. So what does this mean? They replaced the engine but kept the original 216 flywheel?

1. For the flywheel/starter, I'm going to leave to others. It's getting weird. I.E. 139 flywheel teeth and shaft on starter was 1/2". Had a 6V battery in it. Teeth seem OK. It's remotely possible that someone made some sort of hybrid starter.
2. Sounds like you have a gravity feed to the carb intake. That will work. When you said "pouring gas straight into carb", thought you meant dribbling down the throat of carb.
3. Your motor and truck would have a mechanical oil gauge. Which is a tube from motor to gauge. Not a wire. You also probably have a filter/cartridge canister. The pic shows a copper line at lower right. This is where you tap into the pressure for test gauge or permanent gauge install. There is a Tee fitting going into block, one port for filter, one port for pressure gauge.

Yes, you have the original 216 flywheel on a 235 engine. No problem, but you will need to use a 6V starter. Check my most recent PM before you try buying another starter. How did you go about setting the timing when you swapped those ignition parts? The "no start" problem could be something as simple as the ignition timing being a few degrees late. Don't keep grinding on those gears with the flywheel/starter mismatch. The 12V starter will crank an engine with a 6V flywheel, but it's noisy, and it's easy to damage a flywheel ring gear. Then it's very difficult to fix it once the damage is done, involving removing the transmission, clutch and flywheel, and swapping out the ring gear. It's a shrink fit on the flywheel, requiring heating the gear and dropping the hot gear onto the flywheel where it shrinks and holds itself in place.
Jerry

Thanks again Jerry for your help tonight! Steve and I greatly appreciate it more than you know! We will keep you posted on the developments! Much love, good health and happiness to you and your wife in the coming new year!

Suzi & Steve

Well, like Maxwell Smart used to say- - - -"Missed it by thaaaaatttttt much!" I believe you're well on the way to getting the old stovebolt running! Try drying out those spark plugs with a torch and giving the battery a good overnight slow charge. Thanks to your incredibly skillful long-distance ability to understand my suggestions over the phone, I believe we've got the wiring and ignition timing very close to right. Good luck, anfd keep in touch!
Jerry

Both starters we have do not measure a 1/2” or 5/8”, both are closer to 9/16”

Are you sure your calipers read zero when closed? .552 and .558. Closer to 1/2 than to 5/8 but no cigar. I assume no markings on the starters to indicate voltage? You never did post the part number and vendor of the new starter.

I forgot if you said or not, why did you buy a new starter?

I guess if you can't figure out if the starters are 12V or 6V, you will need to buy a 6V from one of the trusted vendors and move forward. Your old starter will probably be required as a core. Contact those vendors and ask questions before ordering.

In the past when 12V systems began, they used to only mark a starter voltage if it was 12V. The old 6V tags had no voltage. But don't count on that.

Yes the calipers were zero’d out before measuring᠁both of these starters came from our local NAPA auto part store. We bought the new 6v one yesterday after I climbed under the truck and counted the flywheel teeth, 138. We had bought a 12v starter when we first bought the truck and couldn’t exchange it, so we bought what we were told at NAPA was a 6v. But they look identical and neither one of them are measuring 1/2” or 5/8”. So we don’t know what we have. The parts number is confusing᠁there are several numbers including a bar code number but when we go to NAPA website it doesn’t help. Our calipers measurements are: .555 & .560

Member 3B reported in 2012 "twelve volt starters have a 12 mm diameter shaft, six volt starters have a 14 mm shaft, hope that helps." That would be 12V = .472 and 6V = .551
Don't know if Canadian stuff is different.

This is a 2020 post by a so called guru: "if it's 5/8" you're running a 6 volt starter. 12V starters have a 1/2" diameter shaft." That would be 12V = .500 and 6V = .625

The number on your tag: 2449651 is shown on NAPA website as 6V 1949 Chevy 3100 foot start. So put it on.

The 12 volt starter can have the internals changed to 6 volt stuff and the 6 volt starter can have the internals switched to 12 volt stuff. Since those starters are Mexico remanufactured they could be anything. Do you not have an old time Starter/Alternator/Generator Shop within driving distance? If you do, they can save you on your Aspirin bill.

Martin and Suzi.......it's the correct starter. Already posted that.

The runnig 235 engine and trans I bought out of a junk yard came with 12v starter and generator. I had both of my 6v's rebuilt so as not to mess with the 12v conversion and keep original. There was no issue with flywheel and 6v starter. My issue is no restart after first quick start...but that's another thread to search here.

So apparently now we have 2 6v starters᠁.it appears my husband (Steve) bought a 6v instead of a 12v from NAPA when we first got the truck. He said he told the NAPA guy he was converting to 12v but I bet he just looked up the truck year and saw the original 216 engine required a 6v. Steve didn’t mention the engine had been replaced with a newer 235 because the topic didn’t come up! Geez, a communication breakdown᠁ 🤪

It's happy time. Move forward. Go over all the posts again. Wire it and fire it.

Converted to 12V, as we have said, means keep the 6V starter. A 12V starter for a 1949 3100 does not exist at NAPA. Good thing he didn't say it was a 59 motor. BUT..NAPA does not show a starter for a 59 foot start.

If you are really hip, like me, you would put on a alternator and get rid of the generator and voltage regulator.... easy and cheap....it's congruent with a 12V conversion.

Pics of an OEM Delco starter posted on the other thread, along with a "Mea Culpa!"
Jerry

Suzi, in my opinion, just my opinion, it's not Kosher to start another post which results in the same discussion. This can lead to great confusion and wasted effort. Folks may read one and not the other. Two steams begin and repeat each other. Both posts talking about part numbers and shaft sizes. We do try an avoid that. I would have liked to have known about the other. Anyhow it's all linked together now.


https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...557/which-starter-is-6v.html#Post1435557

NOW, just because of my engineering background: Both Suzi and others show caliper reading pics of .558 but neither posted that number. I think Kevin could get .558 with two hands.
The number for 6V is .558 diameter.
3B says .551 but he is using MM and gave a flat 14mm, may not be an exact measurement. 14.17mm= .558. His other measurement is a flat 12MM so he, or his measuring device, is rounding.
I'm being specific for the future. This and the other post will be the gold standard when the world googles how to tell 6V vs 12V old Chevy starters

Good thing you lesson was learned on your side of the border and you may be able to take the one back if it wasn’t used.If it was in Canada the same starter from same company same part number different dollars but a little lopsided.

Good to know we helped clarify the differences in 6v & 12v starter shaft diameter measurements! Also good to know our measurements correspond with Jerry’s on the 6v starter. I had sent Jerry our measurements in a PM and he kindly checked his 6v starter to compare so they weren’t posted on the open forum until later.

Bart, I agree, the new thread did cause confusion. Sorry 😞 the reason I started another thread was I couldn’t find the first one when I tried this morning! It had been swallowed up by the 23+ pages of newer threads that appeared overnight...I did not mean to create confusion and will search before posting a new thread next time. I was in a hurry this morning and didn’t take the time.


Thanks again for everyone’s knowledge and help in solving the starter mystery! It made my New Year happier! 😊

Suzi

No apologies necessary, It was just an FYI. It's all tied together now. You and Steve are top notch and fun to deal with. Good workers. Smart enthusiasts. I'm sure we will all be teaming up with you to get the 49 going. It's fun with the various steps along the way. There's nothing the group can't handle. Nothing you can't handle. It's all been done many times. It's especially nice to see you keep up with your posts and monitor them often. When is the next start attempt? Now that you do pix, let's see this truck!

We attempted to start again and filmed a video. It is firing more and smoking᠁Will this forum permit a 2 min video? a video would certainly explain things better than I can!

Scroll down the forum list to "IT short bus" and ask there. Pretty sure I've seen Vids on here.

I tried to post this pic last night but it never appeared on the thread. I will try again now. It’s our grandson at Christmas when we told him someday the ‘49 will be his!

Don't see much rust, That's really good. When looking for a truck, the rule of thumb is:
1. Check for rust.
2. Be sure to examine for rust
3. See 1 and 2
4. Completeness
5. Title
6. Rust
7. Price
8. Shipping
9. Does it have much rust
10. How much rust does it have
11. Is the starter 6V or 12V
12. What size are them shafts
13. Review 1,2, 3, 6, 9, 10

This is how it looked when we bought it in August.

Lol᠁I get it! We learned the lesson regarding the starter voltage and fortunately it does not have much rust! 😊

You can post links to videos.

Its missing the Chevrolet 3100 sign on the drivers side

Run a magnet on the cab corners and fenders, looking for bondo. Cab corners look too good.

Stay on topic please.