The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Driveline Pulling rear axle to stop oil leak

1947 Chevy 3100
Gear oil is leaking out of the axle housing onto the right rear tire and then the floor. Probably need new seals. What would be the steps involved in correcting this issue? Would the 10 bolt differential cover need to be removed? In summary, can someone walk me through this procedure? Thanks, Ray Durham

Check "chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com" They have a copy of the shop manual that gives instruction. The differential cover will need to be removed. Not difficult to accomplish.

Thanks for the advice. I also thought about searching on YouTube and found some good videos there. ray

Once the axle is out, inspect it for wear. Since the bearing rollers ride right on the axle shaft, it's not uncommon for them to wear a groove in the axle and make it impossible for the seal to keep up with the axle bouncing up and down. Some parts vendors used to sell a bearing with an offset in it so the rollers run on an unworn part of the axle shaft. I'm not sure if that type of bearing is available for the old stovebolt axles or not.
Jerry

Thanks Jerry!

I removed my axles a few weeks ago and found exactly what Jerry was talking about. I’ve looked for the last few weeks and could not find the “Axle Saver” one piece bearing and seal. They make them for newer chevy trucks but I had no luck in finding them for the old AD trucks. Hopefully yours are good!

Reply to Phak1

So, what do you plan to do about this. I guess a machine shop could build them up and then dress them to the original factory specs. It probably wouldn't be cheap. ray

To Phak1

I had another thought. Any chance an axle saver bearing for the newer chevy trucks would fit our old trucks? ray

Jerry

There is discussion in the shop manual for a 1947 chevy 3100 about having a maximum distance of .014 inches between the ends of the axle shafts in the differential housing. It goes on to discuss three different sizes of spacers: 1.1485, 1.1575 and 1.1675. I doubt these are still available and I was wondering if you knew of a substitute. ray

It would be a very simple project for a machinist to fabricate one of those spacers from a block of steel and size it to whatever axle end play was needed. I'd probably choose to case harden the surface of the metal with something like "kasenit" before grinding the thrust surfaces to the final dimensions. Case hardening produces a hard surface about 1/16" deep on a piece of soft steel. That would be ideal for a part subject to surface wear that is still required to remain "tough but flexible" on the inside. Tool steel could be used for a project like that, but it would be a little too brittle if it was hardened all the way through.
Jerry

I'm wondering if the axle shaft could be machined down a little, and a hardened repair sleeve pressed on, then ground to the proper diameter for the bearing to contact? I'm thinking of using air hardening tool steel, and shrink-fitting the sleeve into place. The process of heating the sleeve to expand it and shrinking it onto the turned-down axle shaft would also harden the sleeve as it cools. Then a tool post grinder on the lathe could be used to establish the final outside diameter.
Jerry

Jerry, you must be a machinist with your own shop. ray

You guessed it! My most recent equipment purchase was a crankshaft grinder to go with the other toys like a few welders, two Brigheport mills, four lathes, a valve seat and guide machine, a bead blaster, a Sunnen connecting rod hone, a portable line bore machine, and a portable "in the block" crankshaft grinder.
Jerry

If the shaft was turned down to precisely the right diameter, a sleeve of the correct size could be installed, and probably dispense with the final grinding. There's probably enough tolerance in the axle bearing surface diameter from the factory to allow that.

Still going to be expensive though. There are probably still enough usable axles that can be had for a cheaper cost.

Couldn't you have somebody like Moser or Currie make a new axle?

Get ready to give your checkbook CPR if you choose that option!
Jerry

I used a "Speedy Sleeve" on my crankshaft where it goes through the timing gear cover. I had wondered about a Speedy Sleeve for the axles on my 53. It did not seem to be available. Having said that I thought I recently saw an ad or comment about using a Speedy Sleeve.

Speedi-sleeves are used for seal surfaces. I doubt very much if they would stand up to roller bearings running on them, because they're very thin. Might last for a year or two, but then you'd be back in the same situation, or worse.

The worn area would need to be machined smooth, and a repair sleeve fitted to bring the diameter back to slightly over the original specification, then ground and polished to a smooth enough surface for the bearing rollers to ride on. Remember that the bearing also supports the weight if the truck, so the metallurgy of both the axle and the bearing must be compatible.
Jerry

I had a bearing sleeve put on an axle a little while ago , it was IR 1502 part . I just got it from a random ebay supplier .

edit; http://www.fusickautomotiveproducts.com/prodinfo.asp?number=IR1502

Bucktruck, My plan is to locate two good used axles. During my career, I was a machinist for 27 years and sleeved many a bearing surface. The issue as Jerry pointed out is what material to use and how hard the finished sleeve is. Too hard or too soft and the bearings or axle will either wear out quickly of worse yet destroy both the axle and the housing. Unfortunately, since I retired, I no longer have access to all of the machines, heat treating equipment, engineers and metallurgists that I once had to properly accomplish this task.

If I can’t get serviceable axles, I may have to down that road.

Dusty, can you elaborate a little more on the identification (manufacturer) of that sleeve? If that sleeve is still available, it would solve all of my metallurgy concerns.

Wouldn't the repair sleeve in the picture require a bearing and a seal with a larger inside diameter to retain the proper axle/bearing clearance? It looks like it is simply pressed over the worn axle without doing any machining. If a sleeve was fabricated to fit over a turned-down axle, it would be necessary to do a Brinnell hardness test on the bearing area of the shaft before machining it, and try to duplicate that number with the repair sleeve. That's a little above the pay grade of the average hobby machinist, myself included! I acquired a Brinnell tester a while back, but it's in need of a serious rehab and recalibration!
Jerry

I appears that they machined the shaft prior to shrinking on the sleeve. Compare the two. Mine is on the right.

OK, I see the reduced diameter now. Some detailed info on the manufacturer of that sleeve and its availability would be good to know!
Jerry

edited my post .

Does your truck have a Buick rear axle?
jerry

Nope , standard chev axles

Dusty, do you know what the shop that installed it actually did to get it to fit your Chevy?

They have a contact number and I’ll see if they can give me more info on their product. I may just have to buy a pair.

Even though they're listed for Buick axles, I'll bet dollars to donuts that the Buick axles are the same as Chevy, at least in the bearing race area.
Good info. The Rear Axle bearing PN for 1/2 ton Chevy trucks is NATIONAL R1502EL Their PN for the sleeve is IR 1502 (with IR standing for Inner Race?)

Phak1 , it was just a local machinist . He said he just used a carbide tip and power fed the cut . I think he is retired now , also we are in New Zealand

The Chevy cars of those days had axles that could be repaired with a bushing. I am under the impression that the axle would be turned down and the bushing pressed on.I have an axle like that on my 38. I have the bearings and the bushings. Chevs of the 40s has those for the cars. I am wondering if one took one of those bushings and bearings for a car to a machine shop, they could make one for the truck. The matched set for the car would demonstrate the clearance needed for the bearing.

More info that might help someone trying to repair a worn axle.
According to RockAuto
A '51 1/2 ton pickup takes a National R1502E rear axle bearing which has a bore of 1.877", OD of 2.782", and width of 0.875". Since this is a roller bearing w/o inner race that would mean the axle would be slightly less than 1.877" in diameter at the bearing surface.
A '51 BelAir takes a National R1500EL rear axle bearing which is also a roller bearing without inner race. OD is listed at 2.4062", Width of 0.75" (no bore diameter listed, but This lists bore dia of 1.580"). Another bearing for that application Timken R1500EL is a roller bearing with both inner and outer races. OD and width are same as the National, and bore is 1.580", so that tells us that the axle diameter is slightly less than 1.580 at the bearing surface.
So it appears that car and truck axles are not interchangeable.
The link I listed may help find an inner and outer race bearing that could be adapted with some slight turning of the axle shaft.

Thanks for the tip Dusty. I'll look into this if it turns out I have excessive axle wear. Ray

Thanks to everyone...this is good stuff. ray

I contacted sales@fusick.com and asked for dimensions and instructions for installation. Here is their response.

“The IR1502 inner race is 1 13/16" outer diameter, 1 9/16" inner diameter, 1 3/8" wide. Sorry, no installation instructions for it - it would press onto the axle shaft and work with the C1502 axle bearing.“

Their response is contradicting as 1-13/16” (1.8125”) is considerably smaller then the OD (1.876”) of the axles used in our 1/2 ton trucks. They further said it fits a C1502 bearing in which cross references to (Hyatt OR1502), the bearing I’ve removed from my truck.

I responded to the email from “Sales” and asked if they could use a micrometer to measure the OD of the sleeve.

I have done some further research on the sleeve IR1502. Again GM interchangeably at it’s best. IR 1502 (As klhanson suspected is Hyatt IR1502, inner race) turns out that it’s GM part 111122 listed in “1929 - 1954 Chevrolet MASTER PARTS and ACCESSORIES CATALOG” as fitting 37-40 Comm vehicles. It also fits 35-55 Buicks as described on the Fusick Automotive Products website and possibly others. It is mated with GM part 111121 (for those vehicles and years listed). This is further evidenced by an eBay listing and a listing from the Filling Station.

GM part 111121 (Hyatt OR1502) is listed in the Chevrolet master catalog as fitting 40-54 1/2 Ton Trucks. In conclusion, this sleeve should work as a repair sleeve for our 1/2 ton AD trucks.

I ordered two of theses sleeves so my next question/quest is what kind of fit is required to install this sleeve.

I'd suggest machining the axle shaft about .0015"-.002" larger that the ID of the repair sleeve and either heating the sleeve for a "drop-on" shrink fit, or pressing it on with a little "Never-Seez" as a pressing lubricant. As long as the sleeve isn't heated enough to turn it a different color, the hardness shouldn't be affected. Be sure to put a slight radius at the axle flange end of the machined area to prevent the formation of a stress riser from a squared-off corner. The sleeve pictured in the ad looks like it's got a chamfer on one end of the ID to accommodate a radiused cut on the axle.
Jerry

I wonder if this very important thread should be put into a tech tip?

I finished machining one axle and pressed on the sleeve. I turned the shaft so I would have .0005” to .001” press fit. I chose a light press fit because the finished OD of the sleeve is the same as the finished size of the original shaft and I didn’t want to increase that size too much. I opted for a press fit over a shrink fit as I didn’t want to overheat the sleeve loosing the temper.

The axles are induction hardened under the bearing area, about an inch wide. I have a old Craftsman 12” lathe and although It did do the job, it was too small to do it efficiently. I have an Aloris style tool post and used 3/8” tool bits with replaceable carbide tips, and went thru three inserts (three sides each) before I finally cut thru the hardened area. It was about .150” deep and almost at my target depth. I wasn’t able to cut more than .005” at a time or I destroyed the carbide tip. So consequently, so it was really time consuming.

Before I retired, one of the machines I ran was a 15” South Bend lathe and would have loved to do this job on that lathe. The headstock is much beefier than my Craftsman lathe and I could have run a much heaver tool and much heaver cut.

I’m optimistic that this sleeve will work, but the sleeve was barely long enough to cover the area that both the bearing and the grease seal area the ride on, making locating the sleeve difficult. I’m pretty sure I have the location correct, but I won’t be sure until I reinstall the axles.

Here are the before and after pictures. If this works, I’ll document all I did and submit it for a Tech Tip.

Nicely done phak1 , I just received 4 of those bearing sleeves in the mail . Going to do 2 axles and put 2 into stock.

edit ; if you don't have a bearing warmer , you could heat some oil in a pot on the stove (in yer shed) to about 80deg C , that will not damage the bearing in any way and gives a significant size change (0.003 - 0.004) special oil for this is also available (less inclined to burn )

Looking good! BTW, I have that same Craftsman lathe, and it's done some pretty amazing work for me, including spinning a 235 crankshaft so I could turn a little over 1/2" off the diameter of the counterweights for piston skirt clearance on the stroker engine I'm building. The trick is to bolt a heavy tool bit directly to the compound, without any sort of tool holder, and use shims to set the cutting tool height. I'm using a piece of 1" square key stock as a tool holder, with a 3/4" triangular carbide bit bolted to it. The whole works is held onto the compound with a couple of 1/2-13 bolts threaded into T slot nuts. I've also made a couple of modifications to the carriage to prevent any flexing during heavy cuts.

I've got a South Bend 13" lathe and a Bridgeport mill in storage, waiting to be installed in the shop once the floor plan gets changed around a little.
Jerry