The Stovebolt Site Forums The Shop Area Engine Shop New to the forum- engine advice needed

Ok thanks guys! Jerry...I'll probably try what you suggested...cranking with the oil pressure gauge line unhooked, just so I can see I have pressure. One of those OCD things, you know. Sometimes it's no fun having those OCD's, but I think in the end it makes you smarter.
Also...I learned something just then. So in other words, if the engine is running and I have oil at the rockers, I have at least 15 psi? That's good to know, but I recall before this "rebuild" the engine would have pretty low pressure when at a hot idle, but looking at the head with the valve cover off, there would still be oil coming out around the rockers. Maybe the gauge is wrong, because it was certainly showing less than 15 psi.
Thanks again for all your help, everyone! It'll probably be next weekend before I get time to do anymore work. I just need to re-install the rockers, weld a crack in the exhaust manifold and install it, then install the carb, hook up the linkages, and she should be ready for the first fire-up!

Also...I took some photos of the oil line, the fitting that screws into the rocker connector, and a photo of the rocker connector. As you can see, the oil line is straight, and the fitting is straight bore. It just slides over the oil line. Is it supposed to be this way? It seems there is no sealing effect that way.
Thanks!

Maybe that threaded sleeve nut is so worn down that it is not sealing at the "front end"/"nose"?

Another listing for that nut; and, another listing.

I found one at NAPA a few years ago.

That's an oddball fitting- - - -it's supposed to crimp itself down on the oil line the first time it's tightened into the oil connector, and stay there. It's supposed to have a little over 1/8" of the oil line sticking through the nut, into the oil connector. Can the line slide all the way through the nut? If not, someone has probably broken the tip off the line which would allow it to slide out. Those nuts are still available from a few oldtime parts stores, and possibly some of the resto-ripoff specialty parts places.
Jerry

About a year ago NAPA was out so I ordered a "10 pack". Can't remember the price but they were cheap. Sometime they can be a pain to get off. When I cut or take one loose from a gauge I cut it and the tip of the line off, and use a new one.

Isn't the tube to the oil connector 3/16" diameter, not 1/8"? The oil pressure line is usually 1/8", which is what the nut in the link fits.
Jerry

Well, that size might be a little more difficult to find?

Dave?

The expensive source of the part/parts (if you do not need/want to change the line-assembly):
Oil distributor line and "plumbing" part - Jim Carter : $29 - 10% discount + shipping

Thanks guys, sorry I'm a few days late. School really ties one's hand up...
I'm pretty confused about how this is supposed to work...the fitting slides freely over the oil line, and I don't understand how that is supposed to seal anything. How does the fitting "Crimp down on the oil line"? When I out everything together and tighten the fitting, I can still pull the line out the bottom very easily.

The fitting is supposed to squeeze itself down on the line the first time it's tightened, creating a small crimped area in the line. Yours has obviously been tightened too many times and is no longer capable of functioning properly, or the end of the line is compressed to the point it can slide through the fitting freely. These fittings were intended to be "one time use" items, and should be replaced if they ever lose their grip on the end of the line. The tubing should protrude about 1/8" or so through the fitting into the oil distributor so there's an area for the pointy end of the fitting to grip. There is a way to use a regular compression fitting with a ferrule instead of the scarce special fitting, but it involves some rethreading of the oil connector for a 1/8" pipe thread.
Jerry

Those fitting nuts are still readily available. If you can't find them at your local hardware or plumbing supply, McMaster Carr has them. https://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-single-sleeve-compression-tube-fittings/=1a9o7zr (link doesn't zero in on the item - 1/8" size is item # 50815K102)

OK- - - - -one more time- - - - -

The oil line to the rocker arm shaft IS NOT a 1/8" diameter line! It's 3/16"!

If the oil connector is rethreaded to accept a 1/8" pipe thread, the fitting illustrated in the link with a 1/8" NPT male thread on one end, and a 3/16" tubing compression ferrule and nut on the other is a viable option. It would be better to find the OEM fitting, if they still exist, maybe as new old stock at a parts store that's been around for a long time. The same type of fitting in 1/4" tube size was used for a fuel line on flathead Ford engines back in the late 1940's.
Jerry

OK, I was just using 1/8" to get to the specific page on McMaster Carr. They have a variety of sizes up to 1/2", which should cover all the bases.

How could I re-thread the oil connector to accept a 1/8" pipe thread? Take it to a machine shop?
Thanks
Edit: I wonder if this would be a better option? If I can easily remove the old line by removing the push rod cover, I think I'll just go this route. Seems like less hassle. I'll still keep the original line and fittings around, in case I ever go full-blown restoration someday, but right now it's still just an ol' work truck.
Click Here

I wouldn't try to rethread the oil connector to pipe thread. As long as the connection for the nut you were having trouble with is in good shape, I'd just replace the tube section and the nut with the original style from McMaster Carr (#50815K103 for the 3/16" size). Or you could go with that item you found. Your choice.

So you're saying replace the oil line/tube as well as the nut?

This nut, correct?

Yep, That should work for you.

BTW, be careful if you order from McMaster Carr. Their default shipping method is UPS unless you specify in the notes on the order. I ordered a small batch of hardware from them recently and they sent it to me by USP 2nd Day Air (shipping cost more than the merchandise) They will use USPS if you specify, which would be way cheaper for a couple of items like that nut.

Thanks for the warning! I'll make sure to do that. Luckily I have another small thing to order from them, so this will work out nice and hopefully save on shipping.
So I'm either a little confused, or misunderstood what was said earlier... why do I need to replace the line? Not trying to sound smart, I'm just a little confused.

Like Jerry said, the nuts crimps on the line when tightened and may reduce the OD of the line in the critical point where it's supposed to seal against the fitting "wedge". If they whole deal is installed correctly, with a little bit of tubing sticking out past the nose of the nut, it's usually not possible to get the nut off the tubing without destroying something. The tubing with nut crimped on it can "sometimes" be reused and made to seal up, but as Jerry said, typically it's best to replace the nut and tubing together. If your tubing is still the correct OD, you may be able to get away with just replacing the nut.

If you look at your photo of the line coming up thru the head, you can see a slight ring just below the end, which is where the nut has previously compressed it, reducing the OD there. It may not reseal even with a new nut.

Oh, ok. So if the OD on mine is still 3/16, it should be good, but if not, do I just pull the push rod cover, disconnect the old line, then install a new line with 2 new fittings?
Sorry for making myself sound so dumb, I just want to make sure I understand perfectly what to do.
Thanks!

You can save yourself a headache if you run a fine wire through your old pipe all the way through, and hang onto the end of the wire as you pull the pipe out of the block. You can then use the wire (which is now running through the block) to guide the new pipe as you push it through the block.

Alright, I'll remember that. Thanks

Just cut the line back 1/4" or so to expose a new area of undamaged tubing. There's usually enough slack to do that. BTW- - - -the link for the replacement oil line you provided is not the correct one- - - -that's a 1/8" diameter EXTERNAL line that goes around the back of the cylinder head and joins the oil pressure line, and bypasses the internal engine plumbing by making use of the 1/8" pipe plug at the center of the head. It has nothing to do with replacing the line to the oil connector at the rocker shafts.
Jerry

Oh, ok, thanks Hotrod Lincoln. Good thing I didn't order it!

Alright guys...school's almost out for Christmas break, so I'll soon have more time to work on the ol' 2 Ton! Hopefully get it running and driving again by 2018!
I've been wondering a lot about this lately.... when I took the engine apart, I noticed 3 or 4 of the Pal lock nuts on the connecting rods were missing. They weren't in the oil pan, and my used oil tank has a screen on it, so I know they didn't end up in there. I do know someone has been in the engine and adjusted the shim packs before, so I'm thinking whoever did it 40+ years ago either broke or lost some of the nuts.
My question is, how necessary are these nuts? When I was re-assembling the engine, my now-late grandpa told me on these low speed engines they would be fine if it was missing some, so I just put everything back together like it was. Now that I've had a while to stew over it while I'm away in school, my conscience is telling me I need to pull the oil pan again, order new lock nuts, and install them. What do you guys think? It ran for probably 40 years like it was, missing a few of the lock nuts, so should I follow my gut, open her back up, and put them in? Or should I just not worry about it?
I've since learned it's not always best to listen to just one opinion (ie, grandpa in my case), so I'd like to know what you guys think.
Thanks!

Here's another grandpa's opinion- - - - -Palnuts for stovebolt connecting rods are usually available on ebay if you've just gotta have a full set, but they're about as worthless as windshield wipers on a duck's butt! They won't keep a loose connecting rod nut from backing off, and a properly torqued one one stays that way because of the stretch in the bolt, not any sort of external locking device. Other engines such as International truck used cotter pins to secure the rod nuts, and I've seen the pins get loose, wear out, and end up in pieces in the oil pan if they weren't locked into place correctly when the engine was assembled. Nothing beats proper torque for keeping bolts and nuts tight, not even Loctite!
Jerry

Alright, thanks Hotrod Lincoln! I figured grandpa was pretty trustworthy, as many engines as he'd overhauled on the farm in his day, but I didn't know if that was really advisable, or something that only a farmer in a hurry would do.
Your opinion makes me feel a little more at ease now. I did make double sure they were all torqued to spec, and not a hair less.

I am guessing the pal nuts came about for Farmer Bob who ran the engine until it knocked like a drunk tap dancer. The pal nuts would keep nuts on even after the worn away Babbitt created slack thus eliminating the stretch in the rod bolts (which would normally be enough to keep the nuts tight).

Pal nuts are used extensively on aircraft engines because of their light weight.

Ed

You can trouble shoot a little more, if you can put a few lbs of air pressure to each cylinder while they are at TDC then listen for a air leak. Air at the carb intake valve, air at the exhaust, exhaust valve....Air at the oil cap, rings...hope this helps

Progress is being made, but I just found out I need a new manifold, particularly the exhaust manifold. I knew I had one crack, but after cleaning it up, there are many, and it's just kinda rotten all around. I posted a want ad in the classifieds for it. It's a 1951 Chevy 235 engine if that makes any difference. Thanks

Let me check out in the south 40 later today. I have a parts truck but the engine has been heavily picked. If I have one I'll PM.

235Kidd,

Normally, we do not post notices here for our Swap Meet posts.

However, be sure to state the truck you will be putting the 235 exhaust manifold into. The angle of the "down pipe" changed at some point. Also, maybe someone will post info here on whether the 216 exhaust manifold will work for you.

The angle of the later 235 (and any 261) exhaust manifold might work OK in an earlier truck, unless you want it to easily line-up with an existing exhaust line.

The 216 had a straight drop outlet from the manifold right? This one is angled a bit.
Thanks

Check your PM’s for a new message from me.

my engine is a 1951 for sure, JEA engine code. I guess it could've been swapped between 1951 and 1955, if you're certain they were straight. '55 is when great-grandpa bought the truck, and grandpa says he's certain the engine has never had anything other than periodic maintenance done.

Also, another question...would a heat riser stuck in the closed position contribute to a cracked head? Mine is stuck, and I thought maybe that contributed to 4 cylinders being cracked, as I have no idea what else would've caused it.

Last, but not least, THANKS, Martin for your PM! I'll call you in the morning!

Pretty sure the later 216s had angled exhaust manifold?

1949 and later had a angle back dump to clear the idler arm on the passenger car application, but was also used on trucks..

So 49 and later truck 216s had both straight and angled?