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Posted By: posey "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Thu Jul 18 2019 06:49 PM
So I found a tech tip article on the site describing some details of a 3.55 ring and pinion conversion called, Installing Patricks Rear End.
Wanted to see if I could get a copy of these instructions that came with this install kit.

This Patrick site is gone, anyone have these instructions or are they not worth it?

Thanks
Posted By: tclederman Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Thu Jul 18 2019 07:05 PM
While you are waiting for leads/replies, Check out Chris Sweet's Tech Tip here, on Stovebolt.com.

Here is another Stovebolt.com Tech Tip.
Posted By: posey Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Thu Jul 18 2019 07:34 PM
Thanks, Much appreciated.
Posted By: tclederman Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Thu Jul 18 2019 07:39 PM
Here is another set of 3.55 web instructions/pictures.

Someone might know a link to Patrick's 3.55 conversion instructions sheets. They were hard to read, but they would be another installation resource.
Posted By: Mother.Trucker Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Thu Jul 18 2019 09:37 PM
Originally Posted by tclederman
Here is another set of 3.55 web instructions/pictures.

Someone might know a link to Patrick's 3.55 conversion instructions sheets. They were hard to read, but they would be another installation resource.






When Deve was writing up his installation article he contacted Pat for permission to post his original installation literature in the article.

Pat denied him permission to use it.

I have a copy of Pat's original 9 page instruction literature but, it is a copy of a copy & the pictures are a little grainy.

I am not sure if it can be posted here in it's entirety without legal problems from Pat.

Maybe Deve can chime in here if he sees this.


.

Attached picture Img_6559.jpg
Posted By: bartamos Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Thu Jul 18 2019 11:07 PM
This is my opinion you didn't ask for but I offer it as that only.
Posey, you are probably good at mechanical. So am I. I have only rebuilt dana 44 differentials. This all sounds like a bad idea to me. Ancient technology. Parts unavailable? Making shims and removing welded pins? Making tools. High costs?
Hopefully you are not a purist. This is the time to get rid of closed drive shaft and it's differential. Get a good ratio, more modern diff, with cheaper, available parts. Could be WAY less work if you find a good donor. Could be WAY less money. Could be WAY farther ahead.

Disclaimer:
I do not know the ins and outs of AD diffs. Deve's explanation sounds WAY WAY more complicated than Sweets. Maybe there are different methods for different years. If so, you need to state what year you are talking about. You should always state year and model in every new post.
I always recommend to go 12V, alternator and open drive. Does not affect overall original feel/looks of truck. So silly to keep going with bad/unsupported designs for no reason.

If you decide on doing it yourself anyway, sounds like you will have some great guys to help in case of trouble. I.E Sweet, Dave as mentioned by Deve, the FredStev tip and Tim's untiring effort to supply info and links......... and I'm sure many others. I see it a different way, that's all.
Posted By: tclederman Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 12:58 AM
Deve seems to often get involved in some details (and philosophical musings) and sometimes makes things seem to be more difficult.

His write-ups are still helpful and very useful.

Sweet's write-up allow you to git-er-done.

I did two A-D 3.55 conversions using Patrick's hard-to-read instructions (one about 15 years ago, I think).
I had a friend/pro with me (who had never worked on a torque-tube).
We had the Shop Manual open/available at all steps.
We had Patrick's terse and hard-to rear installation instructions.
I bought the necessary parts kits, and, indicators/gauges from and Harbor Freight.
I bought a parts kit from Classic Parts (or others, do this).
Spend the money.

My 1954 Suburban is now much quieter, smoother, and more pleasant to drive (cruises easily at 65 mph - last month a 7-8 hour trip each-way to Macungie PA, averaging 60+ mph).

bartamos offers good advice, but I do not understand:
"Parts unavailable?
Making shims, and,
removing welded pins?
Making tools.
High costs?"

All the parts I needed were in the parts kit.

All shims I needed were in the parts kit.

I do not remember removing welded pins (where are they - where were they? On the bearing that needs to be moved/removed for the Oakie bushing/bearing?

We did not have to make any tools, but we used same long plumbing pipes to punch out seals and old old bushings.

I do not know how the costs compare to whatever alternative rear-end/gears-ratios others might install.

I do know that I now have a smooth, quiet, higher-speed, set-up that can be easily maintained for many years/miles.

If there is a reasonable alternative - what is the outcome/result, and, what are the total costs?
Posted By: bartamos Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 01:50 AM
"Parts unavailable?
Making shims, and,
removing welded pins?
Making tools.
High costs?"

Got that from quickly reading Deve's site. See if you agree with my understanding of his words.
It will be great info to watch what doing that job in 2019 will provide re: parts availability, pricing and level of effort.
I do agree that Sweets sounds like a weekend job. Your experience is the same.
Does not change my thoughts about going open. I do stand overruled on this.
Posted By: tclederman Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 02:48 AM
I do not know what the cost would be, doing it as Deve describes.

I do know how to easily do it as Sweet describes:
- buy the gears
- buy the parts kit
- buy the cheap gauges

I'll price it out for you, after you price out the TOTAL cost of any other rear-end swap/conversion.
I priced it out long ago here (good luck searching for it). Those prices are no good now.
Also, pricing-in the shipping cost for many sources for parts, will make the cost of a parts-kits look real good?

The only advantage I can guess for changing to open-driveline conversion might be a final drive ratio lower than 3.55?
Posted By: Mother.Trucker Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 03:52 AM
Originally Posted by bartamos
This is the time to get rid of closed drive shaft and it's differential. Get a good ratio, more modern diff, with cheaper, available parts. Could be WAY less work if you find a good donor. Could be WAY less money. Could be WAY farther ahead.



Switching out the rear end for a modern one sounds like good advice until things start to snowball & you run into more unexpected costs.



Pay for a donor rear end & then more than likely have to rebuild the brakes on it.

Will the new brakes be compatible with your existing brake system ?
{Example : Huck brakes on the front axle & Bendix brakes on the rear axle are a recipe for disaster}.

Then you will have to index your new axle in relation to the driveline & fabricate new mounts & weld those on.

Your existing transmission has a closed U joint set up which is not compatible with the new open U joint rear end.

You will now have to remove your original transmission & locate a new open driveshaft transmission & install that.

Next you will need to have a shop make you a driveshaft & balance it.

Then you will need to figure out a way to adapt your existing parking brake cables to the new rear end.

Most of the newer rear axles with better gearing are 5 lug.

Looks like you now will need to go to 5 lug rims, so you will need to locate 4 new rims & switch out the front brake drums to 5 lug.

After you have done all of this...you now have a used rear end that might last 20 years or it might last 20 miles
{ unless you have gone through the expense of rebuilding it before you installed it }.



As you can see....
The most economical & least intrusive way to change the gearing in your truck is to do so with your existing torque tube axle.
That is why the 3.55 gear conversion is so popular.



Posted By: bartamos Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 07:43 AM
All those points can be address fairly easily. Starting with 51 and up are bendix. Brake jobs are very easy and cheap. Not like open swap has never been done. I have a hunch that Sweet and Tim had good professional help and they are not slouches either. A different persons time, smoothness and expense may differ.
If someone wants to maintain the closed driveshaft/drop out diff system. They can move forward with the fine tech tips. Just mentioning another option.
Posted By: SWEET Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 11:38 AM
The 3:55 year swap is a project you can do over a weekend. IF you aquire the bearings, bushing, and seals. When I did my rear end I also was given tools like carrier wrenches. These simple tools made the job that much easier. I used MT’s rationale when deciding what to do. In my case, I replaced the gears when I had it apart due to a pinion bearing failure.

I too have a copy of Patrick’s instructions. Same poor copy quality.
Posted By: posey Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 12:35 PM
Thank you for all the comments, all helpful, will try to sift through the best and least complicated but thorough as possible. My 54 1/2 ton as some of you know have
completed a complete aesthetic and mechanical restoration with exception of the driveline (yeah I know should have done it sooner but shoulda- woulda).

I can tolerate the limited speeds but the driveshaft vibration is tough to take until I do it. I believe I have acquired the most difficult to find part which is a
good 53 gear carrier. Have to acquire the rest in time. Wish I could do it now, the full resto budget was a killer.

Have decided to pull the entire torque tube and carrier assy out, (seems easier to adjust run-out, backlash and ring and pinion contact.

Hate to spend another $500 for the kit if bearings are in decent shape. Anyone know if shims have become available somewhere.
Posted By: showkey Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 12:36 PM
I have said this several times prior..........if you current rear end in functional with no issues other than the ratio.

The 3.55 gears are a drop in and all the bearing can be reused. Gaskets, Dial indicator and shim selection is all the parts or special tools that are required.

DEVE instructions are excellent.........my choice was to remove the diff carrier assembly vs gear install in the truck.

Shims are available ...........
Posted By: tclederman Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 01:03 PM
"I have said this several times prior..........if you current rear end in functional with no issues other than the ratio."
A somewhat reasonable point of view.

"I can tolerate the limited speeds but the driveshaft vibration is tough to take until I do it."
Sounds like other issues?
Posted By: Dragsix Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 01:07 PM
Just asking here, but with Patrick's out of business, or so I am told, are the 3:55 gears even available any longer?
Posted By: Justhorsenround Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 01:13 PM
Mother Trucker?
Posted By: tclederman Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 01:20 PM
Yes, MT (he has a post in this thread - look for his name - send a PM) has been selling them for more than several years.
He had quite a few sets made.

https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum...n-truck-3-55-1-ring-pinion-gears.923013/
Posted By: posey Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 01:31 PM
Yes other issues....needs new driveshaft bushing as well, that why I want to pull the entire diff carrier assy. Get it all
done at he same time. Has new U joint. Hate to tear apart the yoke area again (its leak free) but it has to be done.

Not sure I will know how to act, when done

Where those shims available?
Posted By: Grigg Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 01:47 PM
Don’t know what sizes and thicknesses of shims y’all need but this company has a large variety of shims for differentials.
http://ratechmfg.com/toc.htm
Posted By: posey Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 05:54 PM
Thanks for the link
Posted By: SWEET Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Fri Jul 19 2019 08:50 PM
I agree with Tim's point. Sounds like there is a an issue causing the vibration. Similar symptoms prior to my pinion bearing exploding. If your going to take it all apart, do it once. I did mine years ago, have many trouble free miles since.....
Posted By: posey Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Mon Jul 22 2019 09:44 AM
They don’t give a very good indication of thickness,
Diameter etc. of the shims they carry.
Anyone have other sources that give more detailed dimensional information
On the shims they sell,
Thanks
Posted By: showkey Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Mon Jul 22 2019 11:35 PM
Posey.......you have private message.
Posted By: Grigg Re: "Patricks' Tech Tip Article - Tue Jul 23 2019 12:25 AM
Originally Posted by posey
They don’t give a very good indication of thickness,
Diameter etc. of the shims they carry.
Anyone have other sources that give more detailed dimensional information
On the shims they sell,
Thanks

Yes,
The link to “product dimension charts” is on page originally linked and takes you here
http://ratechmfg.com/Dimension%20Chart.htm
Shims and their specifications are at the bottom.
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