Stovebolt.com
Posted By: WICruiser 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Dec 19 2021 02:01 PM
I recently purchased a 1949 3600 and there are some areas of the cab that definitely need repair (see photos attached).

I am aware of patch panels for the rear lower corners but not sure what I need for the floor near the firewall and front lower corners. The cab mounts appear to be okay but sometime in its previous life it appears the cab mount hardware (and maybe more) has been removed. It is not clear what is actually retaining the cab at this time other than it weight.

I was anticipating removing the cab to allow complete cleaning and painting of the frame but I don't have a rotisserie or other means to manipulate the cab so I am having second thoughts.

At this point I am developing my project plan and would appreciate any insight that members could provide.

Attached picture DSC_0433.jpg
Attached picture DSC_0435.jpg
Attached picture DSC_0448.jpg
Attached picture DSC_0437.jpg
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Dec 19 2021 09:23 PM
There are patch panels available for everything you need to do.
Floor panels from the front of the seat riser up to the toe board are available right and left side. You may not need the complete panels, but there will be the material you need there.
Inner, outer, and the infamous inner-to-outer cowl panels are also available, either short height or full height. You'll be swearing at the inner-to-outer cowl panel as you try to fit it in place. Just cut it where needed and weld it back together.

Your cab seems to be solid enough that you may not need a rotisserie. Some guys have laid the cab on it's back on appropriate padding to work on the floor. Be sure that you put temporary bracing in place before cutting out too much rusty metal so the cab doesn't get distorted. There are checking dimensions in the Factory Assembly Manual that can help you keep it correct.

You'll know more once you get it cleaned up.

Be sure to ask if you have more questions. I've been thru that effort (and more) and pics are in my signature link.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Dec 20 2021 01:05 PM
Kevin,

Thanks for the information and pointing me to your great photo gallery, definitely a lot of time and effort to not only do what you did but to document it all with pictures.
Posted By: Lightholder's Dad Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Dec 20 2021 04:15 PM
Having done two off frame restorations (my '50 COE and '37) I would recommend removing the cab. You will discover some things that you will want to fix early enough in the process to make it easier. A totally stripped cab only weighs about 370 lbs, so you and 3 of your friends can easily lift it off; or use straps and an engine cherry picker. Get a decent wooden pallet and buy some cheap swivel caster wheels at a big box store and make yourself a cab dolly. The cab can also be rolled on its back with some padding to work on the underside. Follow Kevin's advice and you will be fine.
Kent
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Dec 20 2021 04:45 PM
Thanks Kent
I am was envisioning leaving the doors installed to help secure the cab shape during the removal and handling process but I suspect they will be in the way for a lot of work so that may not be a good plan.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Dec 21 2021 12:50 AM
The best platform upon which to make the repairs I see on your cab would be your frame.
The first thing you need to do is re-establish the front and rear cab mounts and measure and set the gaps, as per The Manual, between the cab and the frame at all four corners. This will give you a stable platform to keep everything from moving around as you cut and replace each of your rusty panels one at a time.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Dec 21 2021 02:27 PM
Thanks Carl, that makes a lot of sense. I have not reviewed the rear cab mounts but it seems clear that the front mounts were removed at some point.

The good news is that the frame appears to be solid in all the visible areas so hopefully also solid under cab.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Dec 21 2021 06:45 PM
I'd agree with Carl except for a few things.
1. The rear cab mounts are flexible, so it would be possible to get things off.
2. I hate working on my back, especially welding overhead.
3. The frame will be in the way of some places you need to get at.

My preference (and what I've done) is to remove the cab. It wasn't assembled on the frame at the factory.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Dec 21 2021 07:14 PM
Originally Posted by klhansen
I'd agree with Carl except for a few things.
1. The rear cab mounts are flexible, so it would be possible to get things off.
2. I hate working on my back, especially welding overhead.
3. The frame will be in the way of some places you need to get at.

My preference (and what I've done) is to remove the cab. It wasn't assembled on the frame at the factory.
1) The rear mounts are pretty much stationary if the front mounts are tight. I never notice my cab rolling around when I climb in my daily driver. Those rear mounts are designed merely so that the cab does not get crushed when the frame flexes, such as when driven off road.
2 &3) I hate working on my back also. Once I make all of the rust repairs from inside of the cab, the cab becomes a very rigid unit, giving me the confidence that nothing will get torqued out of shape once I remove it from the frame and stand it on the firewall so that I can easily get to the underside of the floor and the cab corners.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Dec 21 2021 07:49 PM
Agree with Carl to leave on the frame. I also don't see "welding on your back" a problem in this case. Welding thick stiff with stringer and weave is not fun, but this kind of welding is stacked spots. So it's just Zap welding one at a time. The issues associated with upside down welding don't exist. Removing the cab seems just an option if you have the wherewithal.
Removing the cab is not so simple, lots of things to remove and it's real heavy. Plus it's nice a shady under there.

WIcruiser: Do your top side patching, then decide on how to do the under later. A whole lot can be done with out laying on your back or removal. After trying on your back or side, you will know if it's OK or not. Be sure to jack the truck up so you can sit in a chair for the initial top side welding/fitting/measuring. I have four of those old 50's office chairs as my creepers.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Dec 21 2021 10:21 PM
I took a quick look and the rear mounts have been disconnected from the cab (same as the front). The passenger side front mount area is pretty rough but the other three mount areas seem pretty solid.
I will reinstall all 4 mount points and make sure the cab floor is the prescribed 7/8" above the top of the frame rails before I cut out anything. I anticipate ordering the two piece floor from Classic Parts along with other patch panels I anticipate needing when I get closer to tackling the cab part of the project.
Thanks everyone for your insight and recommendations. This is going to be a long project so I am not sure when I will be getting to the actual work.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Jan 17 2022 12:48 PM
I ordered and received my cab related patch panels from Classic Parts (very fast shipping and no parts back ordered!).

I need to study the parts more but interested in member's experience regarding sequence of patch panel installation, primarily the inner cowl and floor areas. I don't want to cut out too much at once and loose the integrity of the cab but at first glance it appears that if I cut out both the floor and the inner cowl areas I will have better ability to install the inner cowl patch panel. Generally the inner cowl is only poor along the fender arch, the passenger side floor is poor along the firewall and cab mounting area, the driver's side floor is only poor along the firewall. The outer cowls are only poor near the bottom but may need to remove more of the original panel to access the back side of the inner cowl.

It will be a while before I actual start into the panel work as the building the truck is in is not heated and it is cold this time of year here in WI.
Posted By: KEVINSKI Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Jan 17 2022 07:48 PM
I have my parts sitting on the floor in a box was contemplating the same thing mine is solid with made up parts from years ago . The floor patch from what I read is a good fit ,the outer cowl I read the same, kick panel or inner cowl seems to need adjustment at the bottom we’re it meets the floor as well as the piece in between .Take a look at Kevin’s klhansen on here he has a bunch of pictures on here maybe in the project journal.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Jan 17 2022 08:00 PM
Here's a sketch I just made of a cross-section thru the cowl area. From memory, so may not be exact, but you can see how the panels are sandwiched together, especially at the floor/rocker/inner cowl/inner-to-outer cowl. You'll need to cut it apart and determine how best to reassemble. As I mentioned earlier, you'll have to do some serious massaging of the inner cowl panel to get it to fit correctly.
As far as the outer cowl, that is the one that's critical as far as making the doors fit with the correct gaps, so that one needs to be at least fit temporarily first. Also, cut only as much as you need to get to solid metal. There isn't a need to get the whole outer cowl off for access, as the inner-to-outer spot welds at the front of it, and the inner cowl can be plug welded to the inner-to-outer from inside the cab.

Attached picture IMG_4443.JPG
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Jan 18 2022 01:54 PM
Great information, thanks.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Jan 19 2022 03:03 AM
Did you receive the full size inner cowls? The gray ones? If so, I have a priceless tip which I will offer to you free of charge.
Buy the lower half panels which are in black primer. Many suppliers carry them. These half panels are formed correctly at the bottom, whereas the full panels ARE NOT EVEN CLOSE.
All you will need to do is cut the bottom portion of the full panel off and weld the black half panel to it. Trust me when I tell you that this tip will save you days of ridiculous metal forming labor.
Also, you will likely find that the two floor panels will be about 3/4" too short to cover the width of the original floor opening.
This is not a big deal. All you will need to do is make a small piece to fill the gap where the two floor panels meet at the seat riser.
This gap is located at the center of the transmission hole in the floor so it will be a very small piece to make and weld in.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Jan 19 2022 01:28 PM
I did receive the full size inner cowls but they are painted black? I had looked at getting the half panels but was concerned that they were too short to resolve the upper end of the damaged area on the original panels. I could order the lower half panels as you suggest but wonder if the problems that you experienced were related to panels from a different supplier.

I have laid the floor panels over the existing and they seem to overlap rather than having a gap but the assessment is very preliminary.

I did reattach the rear cab mounts to the cab and installed the driver's side front mounting bolt to secure the cab in location. When the weather improves I plan to start work on the passenger side floor/inner cowl area as the mounting hole on that side is in poor condition. I plan to shim the cab floor to the frame as far forward as possible to provide support prior to removing material.

On a separate subject can anyone provide tips regarding running board bolt removal? I am not sure if they are original but the bolts have square nuts and the best fitting socket I have is a 13mm 12-point. The bolts start to rotate once I get the nut loosened and given how everything is tucked up inside the mounting frame and under the running board it seems impossible to access the bolt to prevent rotation. I wouldn't mind cutting the bolts if I can find a way to gain access to ensure that I am not cutting anything except the bolt.
Posted By: buoymaker Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Jan 19 2022 06:02 PM
Pictures:
https://www.motortrend.com/how-to/repairing-damaged-cowl-patch-panel-1947-1955-chevy-trucks/

Click on, "see all 20 photos".
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Jan 19 2022 06:52 PM
If those inner cowl panels include bends at the top end, they are from Dynacorn (see pic), and may fit more correctly than others, although I don't have experience with them. They just look more correct. Carl is likely talking about the ones that are about 3/4 of the full height (stop below the top of the vent opening) that come unpainted. They need work at the lower end, or splicing the short panels to them.

On your running board fastener issue, they're special bolts with an extra large head and a carriage bolt square just below that. If they're spinning in the hole, then you'll need to cut them off. Try tightening them instead of loosening to see if they will snap off. If that doesn't work, you can probably use a cutoff wheel on a grinder to grind the nut away, or carefully use a cutting torch to cut the nuts off. In any case, you'll likely need a new set of fasteners, and possibly repair the running board where the bolts go thru the support.

Attached picture inner cowl.jpg
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Jan 19 2022 09:35 PM
Buoymaker, thanks for the pictures and the information. In your pictures it shows the floor panels done before the outer cowl is worked on which makes sense but it also appears that you did not need to install inner cowl panels. From what I have learned the floor edge is sandwiched between the the inner cowl and the rocker so I suspect that I need to remove both the inner cowl (at least the flange area) as well as the floor to fit the new floor panel in place unless I trim off the flange on the floor panel and butt it up against the inner cowl. I am not sure about trimming off the flange because it adds a lot of stiffness to the panel. My body does not have a driver's side vent that I am aware of but does have a passenger vent (air intake I believe for the heater I do not have).

Klhansen, my passenger side panel stops short of the top of the top of the vent opening and the driver's side is similar height but they are painted black. My panels were from Classic Parts part numbers 44-111 and 44-114. Also thanks for the insight regarding the running board fasteners, not sure why I didn't think about just tightening to break them. As long as I can get decent socket engagement that should work. Getting a cutoff wheel up inside the support channel to cut them seems like it would be a challenge but I do have a Dremel with cut off wheels that may fit if I need to cut some. I am sure I will need new fasteners regardless of how I get the old ones removed. Unfortunately it is cold and predicted to stay that way for at least the next week so and therefore activity is limited to working on patching/repairing fenders, etc. that I can easily carry to the other (heated) shop.

Attached picture DSC_0409.jpg
Attached picture DSC_0425.jpg
Posted By: buoymaker Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Jan 19 2022 11:01 PM
Here are pages from the 47-55 Factory Assembly Manual. Hope this helps a little.
I scanned them in using normal resolution. I can go higher for better detail if needed.

Attached picture Floor Panel 01.jpg
Attached picture Floor Panel 02.jpg
Posted By: Phak1 Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Jan 19 2022 11:25 PM
It may be possible to use a nut splitter to break off the nuts saving the original carriage bolts. Not the new style but the old style. You can buy a vintage “Nutsplitter” by H.K. Porter on eBay which is what I have. I have used it numerous times on my truck. The cutting edges on the tool can be rotated so the tool can be inserted between the channel. I looked at my truck and the tool and it looks like it will work.

Attached picture 42C609E3-BB9A-46F2-8EA5-02D93666F7AB.jpeg
Attached picture 77F18970-1EFA-4B28-A76A-773DE54F03DE.jpeg
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Jan 20 2022 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by WICruiser
I did receive the full size inner cowls but they are painted black? I had looked at getting the half panels but was concerned that they were too short to resolve the upper end of the damaged area on the original panels. I could order the lower half panels as you suggest but wonder if the problems that you experienced were related to panels from a different supplier.

I have laid the floor panels over the existing and they seem to overlap rather than having a gap but the assessment is very preliminary.

I did reattach the rear cab mounts to the cab and installed the driver's side front mounting bolt to secure the cab in location. When the weather improves I plan to start work on the passenger side floor/inner cowl area as the mounting hole on that side is in poor condition. I plan to shim the cab floor to the frame as far forward as possible to provide support prior to removing material.

On a separate subject can anyone provide tips regarding running board bolt removal? I am not sure if they are original but the bolts have square nuts and the best fitting socket I have is a 13mm 12-point. The bolts start to rotate once I get the nut loosened and given how everything is tucked up inside the mounting frame and under the running board it seems impossible to access the bolt to prevent rotation. I wouldn't mind cutting the bolts if I can find a way to gain access to ensure that I am not cutting anything except the bolt.
My info about the poorly formed full inner cowl panel may well be dated. Your black panels may well be correct. It would make my day if the supplier finally corrected this issue! Please let us know how they fit. You will know right away. smile
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Jan 20 2022 01:46 PM
Thanks for the additional information. When it warms up and I can get to back to work on the cab and running boards I will provide updates.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Jan 20 2022 08:33 PM
Originally Posted by Phak1
It may be possible to use a nut splitter to break off the nuts saving the original carriage bolts. Not the new style but the old style. You can buy a vintage “Nutsplitter” by H.K. Porter on eBay which is what I have. I have used it numerous times on my truck. The cutting edges on the tool can be rotated so the tool can be inserted between the channel. I looked at my truck and the tool and it looks like it will work.
That's an awesome tool. thumbs_up
I saw a few of them just now on eBay, and it also highlighted H.K. Porter bolt cutters, which might be able to be used as a nut splitter, assuming you have enough room to fit them into the space and for the handles.
I used to be able to cut nuts off bolts with a cutting torch and leave the bolts usable. It's been years since I've tried that, so I might be a bit "rusty". wink
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Jan 28 2022 01:20 PM
I was able to remove the running boards. The bolts I had not loosened I broke using the tighten rather than loosen method but the ones I had already loosened I could not get the head to engage to tighten so I cut them with a dremel cut-off wheel. In the process I discovered that the rear driver's side support bracket was broken between the top and bottom rivets so I will need to weld that as part of my frame restoration. While it will be a while before I need them I should begin my search for the special running board attachment bolts unless there is a better alternative?
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Jan 28 2022 06:05 PM
Glad you were able to get those bolts out.

No need to search real hard for replacement running board bolts - Jim Carter sells them, along with most other vendors. Here's a link. [oldchevytrucks.com]
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Jan 28 2022 10:35 PM
Thanks for the link, I can't recall if I already had it book marked (I have several of the vendors book marked).

I assumed that they would be readily available and that I would probably be replacing them just in principle given their age.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Jan 30 2022 09:32 PM
Looking at my cab floor it appears that there was what I assume was a seat riser removed (front and both sides, but not back) at some time, see pictures attached.

I am not anticipating installing an original bench seat so I don't think it will be too much of a problem but I am guess that at least across the front the riser provided stiffness to the floor panel, regardless of what seats I eventually install should I be planning to fabricate a reinforcement as part of my cab repairs?

Attached picture Floor- passenger side.jpg
Attached picture Floor-driver side.jpg
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Jan 30 2022 09:52 PM
That seat riser definitely provides some stiffness to the floor and helps keep it from sagging in the middle. My suggestion would be to install a channel below the floor where the front of the seat riser was. And possibly something in the location of the rear partition (that's partially gone in your truck). I'd suggest something called a hat channel (~|_|~ ) spot welded along each flange to the floor. Something about 3/4" deep could be installed extending between the frame rails. IIRC, the floor is supposed to be 3/4" above the frame, so you wouldn't want it close enough to hit the frame rails. You could also use that as reinforcement for your seat mounting.
Posted By: KEVINSKI Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Jan 30 2022 09:59 PM
Here is a picture of the seat frame on top of the seat riser that is welded to the floor my seat is original but a lot of seats from the junk yard will also fit in the framing .I used seat belts from a late 80,s early 90,s caprice back seat belts , bolted to the framework .

Attached picture ED40FCA3-D996-4E6B-A377-427C6740BD73.jpeg
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Jan 30 2022 10:06 PM
Thanks for the quick feedback. Another thing to add to my cab repair list.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Jan 31 2022 01:10 PM
I am curious how others have braced their cabs to minimize problems when cutting out floor, inner/outer cowl sections for repair. Ideally whatever is installed now with the cab mounted to the frame could stay in place when the cab is removed. The good news is that my repairs do not appear to be as extensive as some I have seen here but I don't want to assume everything will be okay and be surprised later.
Posted By: MNSmith Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Jan 31 2022 05:29 PM
http://www.bunchobikes.com/1952suburban403.jpg
http://www.bunchobikes.com/1952suburban406.jpg
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Feb 01 2022 01:30 PM
MNSmith, thanks for the pictures, I am anticipating doing something similar.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Feb 06 2022 03:02 PM
I have been tracking other's projects and see what has been described as the fit problem of the inner cowl patch panels. If I understand correctly the problem is that the bottom of the "full" inner cowl panels is that they do not match up correctly with the offset in the floor where it bends up to form the bottom of the firewall. There was a recommendation to purchase the lower inner cowl patch panels as they are formed correctly (or at least a lot closer) so I am considering that approach. Any additional insight would be appreciated.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Feb 06 2022 11:52 PM
Can you take some pictures of the bottom of your new replacement panel from 3 angles and post them?
I should be able to tell you if they are bent correctly like the half panels are.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 07 2022 01:54 AM
Here's a couple of pics of the shorty inner panels and the larger ones (unpainted) that Jim Carter sells. A full panel sold by Dynacorn looks like it's closer like the shorty panel pictured (just from looking at pictures from a vendor.) I used the Jim Carter panels and beat them into submission because I didn't want another weld joint. I had rust higher than the shorty inner panels would take care of. The last pic is of the short inner-to-outer cowl panel and the short inner panel that matches up fairly well.
These are matched up with the half floor/toeboard panels that I got from Classic Industries.

Attached picture IMG_2872.JPG
Attached picture IMG_2801.JPG
Attached picture IMG_2796.JPG
Attached picture IMG_2797.JPG
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 07 2022 04:22 PM
I attempted to take pictures that show the right lower panel, the left appears very similar. My perception is that the radius for the large shape at the bottom of the side is supposed to increase as you move from rear to front of the panel to compensate for the taper in the floor but these panels the radius appears to be constant.

Attached picture 20220207_085238.jpg
Attached picture 20220207_085444.jpg
Attached picture 20220207_085251.jpg
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 07 2022 06:16 PM
Those also appear to be missing the flare at the front end that the short panels that I pictured have.
The radius at the front does need to be larger to match up better with the inner-to-outer cowl piece. The inner panels I used do increase in radius, but don't have the flare, which I needed to hammer into them.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 07 2022 09:43 PM
I think I am going to clamp up my floor panels and inner cowl panels to see how they fit together. I did not plan to replace the inner to outer cowl panel because mine are generally solid except for the bottom end where I plan to fabricate a patch on my own.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 07 2022 10:34 PM
Originally Posted by WICruiser
I attempted to take pictures that show the right lower panel, the left appears very similar. My perception is that the radius for the large shape at the bottom of the side is supposed to increase as you move from rear to front of the panel to compensate for the taper in the floor but these panels the radius appears to be constant.
I don't believe that the short panel which you received are made any different than the full panels at the bottom. It has to do with the front-to-back taper which you refer to. I wouldn't use them.
I believe that I found mine at Jim Carters and based my purchase on the picture on his website. I could make out the tapered bend in it.
Kevin's pics show what the panels are supposed to look like at the bottom.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Feb 08 2022 02:46 PM
The inner cowl panels that I have are not the short ones but they do stop short of being a full panel, for example the passenger side stops short of the top of the heater opening.

I clamped the floor panels to the respective inner cowl panels and the results are not very good.

The passenger side cowl panel needs to shift forward but the radius at the front is too small to allow the flanges to align, with it shifted back to clear I suspect the floor board angle is incorrect. I suspect I will need to reform the radius to allow the flanges to align and then see what else is required.

The driver side cowl panel can be positioned where the flanges can align. However, there is a considerable gap between the panels in the corner.

The attached pictures may not show the challenges very well but it is going to be interesting assuming that I stay with these inner cowl panels. Earlier it was suggested that the short inner cowl panels are formed better, at least the ones from Jim Carter (correct)??

Attached picture 20220208_080657.jpg
Attached picture 20220208_080710.jpg
Attached picture 20220208_081207.jpg
Attached picture 20220208_081217.jpg
Attached picture 20220208_081235.jpg
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Feb 08 2022 08:30 PM
Yep, that's exactly what I had to deal with. Screw the panels in place to match up with the door pillar, then go to work on that corner till you get it to close the gap. You don't want to move the inner panel forward to meet the toeboard. I think a fair part of the issue is the shape of the floor panel. I would get that in place first (again, with sheet metal screws temporarily, if you can do that) and work both panels to close ujp the gap. Also pay attention to the angle of the toeboard as you mentioned. I had to cut and reweld my floor patch panels at the floor/toeboard bend to get the whole floor flat across the cab.
I did not get the shorty inner cowl panels from Jim Carter. I think I got them here. [carid.com]
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Feb 09 2022 02:17 AM
Yep. Kevin found the correctly bent ones for you.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Feb 09 2022 01:48 PM
Thanks, but the link to Carid shows two different suppliers, Auto Metal Direct and Goodmark. Any idea which you may have gotten, or are they basically the same part from different sources?
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Feb 09 2022 06:12 PM
I believe the ones I bought were from Auto Metal Direct but had TriPlus stickers on them. I think they’re all from the same source however.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Feb 09 2022 10:13 PM
I ordered the Metal Direct panels, hope they are much better given the cost but I hate to be spending hours massaging the other panels or welding patches into the patches.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Feb 09 2022 11:27 PM
I sent you a PM
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Feb 11 2022 01:30 AM
I have replaced a total of 4 inner cowl panels. The 1st one was the grotesquely malformed one which brought me to tears beating into submission.
A buddy of mine happened to have one of the shorty panels which are formed very accurately, so I have been using those ever since.
My life was likely shortened from the experience with that first one. I did not want to shorten it 3-fold by beating on another three of those abominations.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Feb 11 2022 03:10 AM
I survived my episode with the panels I got. Didn't suffer much, but it was a learning experience. wink

Sorry it affected you so much, Carl. dang
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sat Feb 26 2022 06:39 PM
I received my latest version of the inner cowl panels. They are definitely formed differently but matching them up against the existing (original) area and the replacment floor patch panels they are still going to be a challenge. For one they appear to be shorter front to back than the original meaning either they will not overlap the door post, or the floor pan flange (forward portion). This raises a question regarding how others have dealt with the windlace channel that is attached (welded?) to the door post. the channel seems pretty delicate so I don't envision being able to remove it and effectively reuse it. I am seriously considering installing the inner cowl patch panel with a seam just forward of the channel as that would appear to resolve the length problem without dealing with channel replacement. The lower front corner also still does not match well with the floor patch panels but that may be a floor panel problem more than the inner cowl panel.

I have not cut out the old floor or cowl panels (planning to do one side at a time) pending the weather improving but I can see where as others have reported this will be a significant challenge to get patched back together. I am thinking that once I get all the material removed it may be easier to see the path forward. In the mean time I am formulating my plans and adjusting as I learn more. Contrary to conventional patch panel butt welding installation I am seriously considering flanging the floor patch panel to overlap the seam with the original in the front and rear. I have tools to form an offset flange that would provide the opportunity to secure the panel with screws for fit up and plug welding. I realize that overlaps can be a problem but I think I can seal the edges sufficiently to prevent moisture from getting in and corrosion starting.

Once the floor panels are in place the inner cowl, then inner to outer cowl, and finally outer cowl panels can be installed in sequence.

As a novice to this I greatly appreciate the insight provided by others that have survived this process.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sat Feb 26 2022 11:34 PM
Where did you get the latest inner panels? That’s interesting that they’re too short front-to-back. If they’re too high that would make them miss the toe board if lined up to the door pillar like it should be.

I would at least get the outer cowl located on the door pillar before installing the inner-to-outer cowl piece. That inner-to-outer is going to take the most “adjustment”. And it’s important to get the door opening set first.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Feb 27 2022 01:32 AM
Originally Posted by WICruiser
I received my latest version of the inner cowl panels. They are definitely formed differently but matching them up against the existing (original) area and the replacment floor patch panels they are still going to be a challenge. For one they appear to be shorter front to back than the original meaning either they will not overlap the door post, or the floor pan flange (forward portion). This raises a question regarding how others have dealt with the windlace channel that is attached (welded?) to the door post. the channel seems pretty delicate so I don't envision being able to remove it and effectively reuse it. I am seriously considering installing the inner cowl patch panel with a seam just forward of the channel as that would appear to resolve the length problem without dealing with channel replacement. The lower front corner also still does not match well with the floor patch panels but that may be a floor panel problem more than the inner cowl panel.

I have not cut out the old floor or cowl panels (planning to do one side at a time) pending the weather improving but I can see where as others have reported this will be a significant challenge to get patched back together. I am thinking that once I get all the material removed it may be easier to see the path forward. In the mean time I am formulating my plans and adjusting as I learn more. Contrary to conventional patch panel butt welding installation I am seriously considering flanging the floor patch panel to overlap the seam with the original in the front and rear. I have tools to form an offset flange that would provide the opportunity to secure the panel with screws for fit up and plug welding. I realize that overlaps can be a problem but I think I can seal the edges sufficiently to prevent moisture from getting in and corrosion starting.

Once the floor panels are in place the inner cowl, then inner to outer cowl, and finally outer cowl panels can be installed in sequence.

As a novice to this I greatly appreciate the insight provided by others that have survived this process.
Pictures please.
The correct ones do look shorter front to back than the horribly incorrect ones. I don't know if it is an optical illusion, or if the horribly wrong ones are horribly too long front to back.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Feb 27 2022 01:53 PM
The latest inner panels are from CARiD made by Auto Metal.

When I place the inner panel inside the cab with the back edge lined up with the door opening edge the front edge of the panel lines up with the inside floor (no overlap to the front). This will change as the inner panel is moved lower to overlap the horizontal floor flange so it may be just paranoia on my part.

Pictures in the near future.

I am assuming (always a bad idea) that the door post position will be retained by it being attached to the cab mounting bracket that includes the front cab mount (in and out) and my bracing (for and aft). The bracket appears to be solid and intact, just the sheet metal floor is rusted away. I am anticipating that floor removal will be done without compromising the door post attachment, cutting the replacement floor panel to go around the door post to preserve that connection.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Feb 27 2022 03:21 PM
I looked at the inner panels again, pictures attached this time. I think part of the problem is the floor panels are bent at the wrong angle but the fit of the inner panel to the floor panel at the bend is still going to require a fair amount of work.

Attached picture 20220227_084648.jpg
Attached picture 20220227_084432.jpg
Attached picture 20220227_084443.jpg
Attached picture 20220227_084814.jpg
Attached picture 20220227_084820.jpg
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Feb 27 2022 10:50 PM
Is that a floor board/toe board combination? If so, that is where your sheet metal skills will need to come in.
Your new inner cowl looks to me to be correctly bent at the bottom.

I would remove a section of the old floor, and the old inner cowl, then screw the inner cowl panel in place with small self-tapping screws.
After that you will need to message the floor/toeboard to match the new inner cowl and install it
Posted By: bluedot38 Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 28 2022 01:30 AM
I did something similar, I used the short panel piece , and fitted it to the bottom of the new floor board. And then I put up the new inner panel up, and where they overlapped, I marked it (longer that needed),and trimmed the two to fit, and finally welded them together to make one whole section. It took little time, but the fit was great, and used auto seam sealer to fill in the gaps. (kinda proud of myself, I figured out how to upload pics. Yay !!!). Be safe all , Mike


Description: inner panel
Attached picture B640863B-6F9C-4E39-84F4-9B5C21D6B5B0.jpeg

Description: inner2
Attached picture E50BA80C-B673-45AC-B50F-209994CD6CAF.jpeg

Description: floor
Attached picture 2C8F31B9-8004-472E-9574-50FB5CB31A92.jpeg
Attached picture 51148FD2-8A50-4285-BD94-30E6FC37E938.jpeg
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 28 2022 01:09 PM
Yes I have the combination floor board - toe board panels. I agree that the new inner panels appear to be correct, or at least much better than the original ones I received. I like the idea of temporarily installing the inner panel and massaging the floor and inner panel to get the best fit possible.

Bluedot38, your results look great, I can only hope to have as good an end result.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 28 2022 04:36 PM
That combo floor/toeboard panel is another one that is often incorrect as well. I replaced both sides on mine, and needed to actually cut a wedge at the bend to get the floor on the same plane on both sides as well as get the reinforcing beads to match up on the toeboard. And the bend will need to be tweaked also.

You'll likely run into the same or similar issues with yours.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Feb 28 2022 05:48 PM
I am replacing both sides but plan to do one side at a time to the extent that will be possible. I will not be surprised if the bend needs to be adjusted but I am hoping that I don't need to do more than that to get the toe board aligned. The match line between the inner cowl and floor will be a challenge as has been discussed here before. The more I look at the latest inner cowl panels compared to the current/original the more I think they will be good and the floor/toe board panel is what will need to be modified to match. At least as shown in the picture with the new inner cowl panel standing inside the current it lines up with the toe board angle and door post while resting on the floor along the floor to cowl seam line.

One of these days the weather will break and I will run out of excuses for not tackling this portion of my project.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Mar 01 2022 03:19 AM
I sure am glad for you that you found the correctly bent inner cowls. It should add 2-3 years to the end of your life not having to cut, bend weld, recut, bend and weld, cut out and throw it as far as you can, and scare the neighbor kids with loud foul language.
Posted By: bluedot38 Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Mar 01 2022 06:04 AM
Thanks for the compliment, I found out that it took time, time to look at it, dry fit and trim a little at a time. Then clamp it all up, and then trim a little more ! I used a sanding disc, about 2.5 inches on a die grinder, took off a little at a time. This was my time in the garage on Saturday nite, and afterwards, I enjoyed a few beverages !! Good Luck, Mike
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Mar 03 2022 04:44 PM
Let the "fun" begin. The door "post" is barely attached at this point.

I need to do some clean up and decide what I am doing about the upper portion of the inner cowl then start fitting the various patch panels. Based on recommendations here I plan to start with the inner cowl (at least the lower) and then the floor. I was originally planning to keep the brace that secures the front mounting bolt attached to the door post and trim the floor flange around that joint but given the limited connection I may separate them so that the floor flange can drop in between as originally intended.

Attached picture 20220303_100645.jpg
Attached picture 20220303_100654.jpg
Attached picture 20220303_100714.jpg
Attached picture 20220303_100732.jpg
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Mar 03 2022 06:04 PM
If that were my truck, I would go ahead and cut out the front support and get a replacement. It looks pretty sketchy, especially where the rocker panel has rusted away in front of the door pillar. You're going to need to replace the rocker panel, or at least the front section of it. I had the same condition and opted to replace the entire rocker on both sides. The other consideration is that you can't really get good welds on rusty metal and will need to grind away the rusty stuff, possibly resulting in some weakened metal as it gets thinner. You can use the hinge bolt locations to establish the correct distance between door pillars (dimensions available in the FAM.) Looks like you've braced the door frame pretty well.
Posted By: Whitelightning Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Mar 03 2022 08:39 PM
Man, I need to get started back on my '53 truck. I know the floor pans I bought, and the cab mount channel do not have the same angle at the end toward the outside.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Mar 03 2022 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by Whitelightning
Man, I need to get started back on my '53 truck. I know the floor pans I bought, and the cab mount channel do not have the same angle at the end toward the outside.
Those cab support channels are another repop part that needs to be "massaged." Mine didn't match well either.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Mar 04 2022 02:36 AM
The "fun" with replacing the inner cowl comes in to play where you have 3 panel flanges sandwiched together
1) The lower flange of the inner cowl.
2) The side flange of the floor.
3) The side flange of the rocker panel.
To do it correctly (ie as original), you need to first get the floor section out of the way so that you can remove the lower flange of the inner cowl from the rocker panel.
After that, the cab pretty much puts itself back together...
Well, except for rusted out hinge pillar, the rusted out inner-to-outer cowl, and the rusted out rocker panel.
"But other than that, smooth sailing." Just make sure to keep saying that to yourself. It helps.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Mar 04 2022 01:45 PM
52Carl, thanks I was not sure if the original rocker panel continued forward to overlap the inner cowl, clearly mine has rusted away in that area. The rocker seems pretty solid to the rear of the door pillar. KLHansen thanks for your insight regarding this effort.

I plan to finish removing the support channel to determine if it needs to be replaced or just cleaned up, and possibly enhanced (repaired) at the outer end. Regardless if reusing the original or replacing I am thinking I would install the support channel to the underside of the floor panel prior to installing the floor panel permenantly.

My current plan is to:
Finish removing, clean up and evaluate the support channel; clean up the floor & firewall cuts, spot welds, etc.
Set the floor panel in place to mark where the cuts in the original are, cut off excess material from floor panel (with overlap flange material remaining), form overlap flanges in floor panel, teporarily install support channel to frame, temporarily install floor panel with sheet metal screws, locate support channel to underside of floor panel and install with sheet metal screws
Fit inner cowl lower panel (this may require adjustment to the floor panel) and temporarily install with sheet metal screws
Fit inner to out cowl panel and temporarily install with sheet metal screws
Fit outer cowl panel and temporarily install with sheet metal screws.

Once all the temporary installations look okay I will remove everything and start putting it back together more premenantly.

One area I have not decided yet is how to address the forward end of the rocker panel. I suspect it basically connected to the back side of the inner to outer cowl panel. If that is the case I may be able to fabricate an extension that could be attached to the inner-outer panel and then secured to the existing rocker panel rear of the door pillar.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Mar 06 2022 10:28 PM
I have the first draft of a rough install on the passenger side done, see attached. I have not addressed the rocker panel or the reinformcement issues yet but at least I have something that resembles a floor and cowl area.

The rocker I am contemplating fabricating a piece that will follow the shape of the outside of the rocker with a flange to attach it to the backside of the inner to outer panel. It may be harder than I am envisioning sa it is prettu much a blind area. The rocker panel itself seems pretty solid from the door pillar back. I think I can get it tight to the inside of the existing rocker and plug weld it to the existing rocker.

The reinforcement appears pretty solid except for the end outboard of the mounting hole, the wide flanges that attach to the floor flange are solid but the end flange and the related center of the support are basically gone. I think I an fabricate a piece to replace the missing material and get a pretty solid part.

A lot of work to do yet but it is at least a start.

Attached picture 20220306_153531.jpg
Attached picture 20220306_153544.jpg
Attached picture 20220306_153559.jpg
Attached picture 20220306_153635.jpg
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Mar 08 2022 03:29 AM
WOW! I am impressed. What you have done is not easy.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Mar 08 2022 12:51 PM
Thanks, I have a long way to go, the panels are only rough fit at this point and I do have more work to do before I can even consider that complete. I am hoping to get some time this week to make additional progress but the weather is not cooperating. the next few weeks I will be traveling so progress will stop for a while.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Mar 09 2022 01:21 AM
Either you have done this before, or you are a good listener. That particular part of cab repair was very intimidating for me my first time.
I was ready to quit until I sought advice from this site years ago.
Posted By: fixite7 Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Mar 09 2022 07:48 PM
WICruiser In another discussion bolters talked about the value of a clean rust-free cab,then put everything back on it, If you could find one it would certainly save a lot of time. If you can do your own body work that's great if you don't stall-out on interest. My experience has been it's best to keep it driveable.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Mar 09 2022 11:11 PM
My perception may be wrong but I don't image finding a clean rust free cab for a 70 year old truck is really an option. I bought the truck in Arizona thinking that it was made in LA (based on the S/N), resided in the desert southwest (at least recently), and the apparent rust did not seem to bad. When I started to dig into it I found that most of the cab, fenders, and running boards were in decent, but not great shape with more rust issues becoming apparent as work progresses. The bed floor is a total replacement and the bed sides have a few rust areas that need to be addressed.

My goal is to have it roadworthy within 3 years (December 2024) so I have a long timeframe but I also know that ia have a lot of work to do. Bodywork is not my first choice but my goal is for the truck to be solid and functional, not a garage queen so I am hoping that my body work doesn't detract from the goal.

Once I get the floor and cowl panel areas reworked so the cab is more stable I plan to remove it from the frame to allow the underside of the cab work to be done. However, one of my thoughts is to get the mounting frame I plan to build for the seats (1999 Chevy 1500 with integrated seat belts) done before I pull the cab because there are seat mounting related aspects to the underside of the cab.

I understand the concern about stalling out on such a long timeframe project but hope that I can stick with it and apprecaite all the support I have been getting from the SB community.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Apr 04 2022 12:23 PM
Finally got back to working on the truck yesterday. I had rebuilt the under floor reinforcement/support and removed all the screwed in panels to install it. I also fabricated an extention piece for the rocker panel that was rusted away forward of the door pillar.

Now that I am trying to get all the pieces to work together I realize that the reinforcement can not be attached to the floor panel prior to installation because the rocker panel is sandwiched between the floor and the reinforcement. I would appreciate any suggestions regarding the sequence of assembly.

With the floor reinforcement roughly in place and the floor panel screwed in place the inner lower cowl does not fit as well as it had previously so I am still fiddling with the inner cowl, inner to outer cowl, and outer cowl pieces to get the fit I think is needed.

I have the door opening braced but wonder if I need to remove the brace and hang the door to check the fit before I go from screwed in to welded in panels. I am also wondering if there is any reason to check fit the fornt fener (iiner and outer) before welding things in place.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Apr 04 2022 05:45 PM
Originally Posted by WICruiser
I have the door opening braced but wonder if I need to remove the brace and hang the door to check the fit before I go from screwed in to welded in panels. I am also wondering if there is any reason to check fit the fornt fener (iiner and outer) before welding things in place.
That's not a bad idea, although I think you could measure the doors and openings without removing the bracing. I would try that first and see how close you are. If you remove the bracing, things might get real loosey-goosey and be tough to get it back in alignment.
Posted By: fixite7 Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Mon Apr 04 2022 09:16 PM
WICruiser Have noticed over the years and several AD trucks that the drivers door hole always seems to be kinda tight. Also seems like the bottom of the drivers door wants to hang out sometimes as much as 1/2 inch. I hate to hear that door crash into the hole !! Have seen nice (expensive) builds that suffered with door hole tight. Now passenger often nice fit close right up !!
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Apr 05 2022 01:47 AM
You definitely want to install your doors before you do any welding. Lots of screws will hold everything in place as good as the original spot welds did.
The number one reason to screw the panels in place is so that you can move things so that the doors will fit.
One would be wise to adopt the notion that in the process of replacing cab sheet metal, one should start with the doors and build the cab around them.
As long as you have a solid "ring of death" (as I like to call it), that is, a sound door opening comprised of the rocker panel, hinge post, lock post and top post, and your sheet metal panels are screwed into place, you really don't need bracing any more.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Apr 05 2022 12:10 PM
Thank you all for the insight and recomendations.

I was able to screw the floor support to the floor panel and install the rocker panel extension with some effort so I think I have a plan of attack. I still need to re-fit the upper portion of the inner cowl but I think once that is in place I will remove the bracing and check the door fit. The panels reinstalled seemed to fit much better, or at least more consistantly this time.

Once I check fit the door I will reinstall the brace and remove all the panels again to drill holes for the plug welds and prep the overlap surfaces prior to "final" screwed assembly prior to welding. Depnding on how the initial door fitment goes I may recheck the door fit one last time before doing any welding.

The good news is the weather is finally starting to get warm enough that it is reasonable to work in the unheated space.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Apr 06 2022 12:08 PM
I installed the upper inner cowl panel and hung the door.

The edge gap between the door and the cab is pretty consistant all the way around which seems good. However, the lower rear door surface is outside of the cab more than I would like. I am wondering if the lower end of the door hinge post moved out as a result of my work to install the floor, inner cowl, etc. making the door farther out at the bottom (although the front looks good). The front of the door lower shape also is lower than the cowl but I can not see any reason that would be related to my work as the outer cowl follows the door hinge post which has not been altered.

I located dimensions for the cab in the factory assembly manual that show the hinge bolt positions relative to the cab centerline. I did not try to find the centerline but did measure from the driver's side bolts. Based on the upper bolt measurements my cab is wider than specified (57.5" vs. 57") but the bottom is off more than the top (59 5/8" vs. 59").

If I need to move the bottom of the door hinge post inward I am not sure how I am going to accomplish itas there is a lot going on at the bottom of the door hingge post connection with the rocker, inner cowl, floor pan, and floor reinforcement.

Attached picture 20220405_111434.jpg
Attached picture 20220405_112829.jpg
Attached picture 20220405_112805.jpg
Posted By: Twin Jimmys Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Apr 07 2022 02:13 AM
It is hard to tell with my old eyes but it looks as if your entire door might be a little low. Raising the door so that the belt line matches will help the bottom of the door match up better. Could you also drop the outer cowl panel just a little to help that all match up?
I am going through this same process now with a 47 panel. I found that when test fitting the doors, all hinge bolts need to be tight. I started out by just tightening 2 of the 3 or 4 present at each hinge end (upper hinges at pillar have 4 bolts on 47-48). I then found when the last bolts got cinched down things had shifted just a touch. Securing all bolts helped much more than I thought it would. I also found that I could get more movement on the door vertically by having all bolts loose, lifting up on door and then tighten all. At first I was only doing the ones on the door separate from the pillar bolts. Doing all bolts on all positions gave me the vertical travel I needed. I had the lower rear corner of my door sticking out also. The front was flush with the lower outside cowl panel. I brought the top of the door out some to be a smidge above flush and it brought the lower rear corner in some. After that did not fix it completely, I tried another door. It was worse. I gave up temporarily and moved to the rear barn doors.
That has been a learning experience. I have 3 left hand doors and all fit different. I settled on the one the truck was born with as it fit best. It needs more work than the others but fit counts too. I could not adjust that door to fit well to save my life. I am using different hinges as mine were worn out and I secured a good tight set. The manual says to bend the hinge to get it to fit. So that is what I did. I heated it until reddish with my torch and gave it a few raps with the sledge. Bingo. Fits like a glove. I tell this story as it shapes my thoughts on the front door. Originally I was thinking the same as you stated. Uh oh, I got the bottom of the pillar too far out when I put in the floor and toe boards. Now I am going to have to take a slice out of them to bring the pillar in and in turn the lower rear corner of the door. Well, now I am thinking of taking the lower hinge and putting a slight angle to it to help the rear corner come in. It should not change to position of the front of the door being flush. Not sure if it will work or not. I certainly am enjoying your posts and progress. I will be waiting anxiously for your resolution.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Apr 07 2022 03:38 AM
Once you get your doors where you want them, I recommend that you do not remove the panels prior to spot welding. You don't want anything to move even slightly.
I drill the panels in place. I use a regular drill bit big enough (3/16" maybe) to allow me to reach the inner panel through the hole to get that underlying panel red hot to start the weld and them move it toward the outer panel for a sound plug weld. I use a TIG welder, but the same method works for MIG.
As far as where your screws are located, you can remove one screw at a time and drill your 3/16" hole in the outer panel and weld it up the same as above. The weld will fill that tiny screw hole in the underlying panel as though it wasn't even there.
Be careful not to drill through the underlying panel when drilling, as the drill bit likes to grab that tiny screw hole and keep going.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Apr 07 2022 12:46 PM
I agree that my door is a little low based on the belt line but it appears pretty close at the top so I am not sure I can raise it enough to get the belt line to match. I did have most, but not all of the hinge bolts installed so I will do that when I fit chech the door again (I removed the door and reinstalled my brace to continue working on my panel fits). There does not seem to be much, if any movement in the hinge mounting to adjust the door and my hinges seem pretty tight but I realize that a small amount of movement at the mounting point can move the far edges of the door a fair amount.

My current plan is to remove all the panels so that I can prep the overlap areas with weld through primer (weather will need to improve) and while the panels are off drill holes in one panel in the overlap areas for the plug welds. Then reinstall all the panels and test fit the door again, make any additional tweaks, and then start welding. I anticipate that I will remove the door and install the brace prior to welding just to improve access.

Knowing what I do from working on the passenger side I am not sure what to expect on the driver's side. Initially the driver's side appeared to have less rusted out areas but I am not sure how good/bad the rocker, floor, floor reinformcement, and inner cowl joint is. One thing at a time though (I tend to get ahead of myself).
Posted By: MNSmith Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Apr 07 2022 10:25 PM
Matching the belt line across the body, door and cowl is EVERYTHING when it comes to the doors fitting properly.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Apr 19 2022 12:01 PM
I worked on welding in the passenger side panels. I still have some work to do but decided to move on with the driver's side work. My welding technique leaves a lot to be desired and I was fighting a wire feed problem with my welder but eventually it will be functional.

When I removed the reinforcement under the floor that attaches at the mounting bolt the driver's side door hinge pillar dropped (seemed a lot more "flexible" than the passenger side was). Based on my experience on the passenger side I plan to fit the floor panel roughly and then get the reinforcement installed to the underside of the panel. I anticpate that will position the door hinge post vertical location correctly but will fit check the door once the panel is screwed in place to confirm.

Attached picture 20220418_142707.jpg
Attached picture 20220418_142728.jpg
Attached picture 20220418_142918.jpg
Attached picture 20220418_142927.jpg
Posted By: Twin Jimmys Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Apr 19 2022 03:11 PM
Body filler and paint will cover what a welder ain't! You will get there. Looking good so far. Why do I see that tan color in the fender mount bolt hole? Did you just lay the patch over the original metal or did you cut them for a butt fit?
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Apr 19 2022 05:51 PM
You HAVE to get the door aligned first. Don't depend on installing the front cab mount to bring the door pillar into the correct position.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Apr 20 2022 12:03 PM
Twin Jimmys - yes I overlapped the patch panel onto the original a little rather than using a butt joint but what you are seeing is actually weld through primer on the inner to outer patch panel.

klhansen, I plan to screw the driver's side together similar to what I did on the passenger side and fit check the door before doing any welding. I was really surprised how much the driver's side post could move compared to the lassenger side.
Posted By: Phak1 Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Apr 21 2022 12:43 PM
Originally Posted by Twin Jimmys
Why do I see that tan color in the fender mount bolt hole? Did you just lay the patch over the original metal or did you cut them for a butt fit?
As “Twin Jimmys” pointed out, an overlap joint, allows water and debris to accumulate between the joints overlapped sheet metal, creating the perfect environment for rust, the very thing your fighting. Butt joints are preferred.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Apr 21 2022 07:18 PM
There are lots of spots where the factory used lapped joints, one being where the outer and inner cowl connect to the inner-to-outer cowl piece. But they definitely shouldn't be used for a patch in the middle of a panel.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Apr 22 2022 12:47 PM
I understand the problems with lap joints but find myself using them in places that are not preferred because they provide forgiveness for those of us less skilled and also allows the joints to be fixed with sheet metal screws during the fitment and adjustment process. I plan to spend a lot more time and effort sealing the lap joints than the factory did on the original lap joints but I am sure that like alot of my work those efforts will be less than perfect.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Apr 22 2022 05:31 PM
Check this [youtube.com] out. I haven't tried it myself, but it's a way to use lapped screwed fastenings of a patch panel and a true butt joint.
One comment I have about it, is that the metal gets deformed as he goes along as opposed to a well fitted butt joint along the whole length of the patch weld.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sat Apr 23 2022 12:19 PM
Interesting approach to getting a smaller gap and I can see how the panel could be screwed in place rather than tack welded for the same end result.

I have the driver's side panels screwed in place and fit checked the door. With the belt line matched the door gaps are pretty consistant but perhaps a little tight on the lower half of the rear. However, the door does not close without pressure from the outside. It appears that the hinges (or at least one of them) needs to flex the hinge post to close the door the last 3 or so inches. The hinges seem tight with the bolts installed but there could be a slight gap against the hinge pillar (not sure what is keeping them from being tight). Given that the top half or more of the hinge pillar has always been attached I assume the problem is that the bottom has twisted affecting the lower hinge. However, the upper hinge is very difficult to get into the pocket due to the torsion spring that serves to hold the door in the open position and so the opening is beat up so that may be part of the probelm as well. Prior to any work the driver's door was more difficult to close tight to the latch post so the problem may stem from it's previous life. One concern is that if I flex the lower portion of the hinge post to address the door closing issue the lower hinge will move rearward making the lower rear door gap even tighter than it already is as the inside edge of the hinge pillar is fixed by the rocker panel and seems pretty solid. I clearly need to do more investigation to detemrine what needs to be tweaked but as I learned on the passenger side door, it is critical to get the door fit correct before welding everything in place.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Apr 24 2022 12:03 PM
The concern about the door closing was a simple problem of a rusty deformed section at the bottom of the door hitting the rocker panel. Once the offending material was relocated the door closes without pressure and the gaps look pretty good. Moving on to continue working on the floor and cowl panel replacment process.

Repair project plan for the doors is next winter season. Not to get ahead of myself but I do plan to rebuild the hinges in the process.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Wed Apr 27 2022 01:03 PM
I am considering closing up the holes in the floor panel related to the parking brake, brake master cylinder, clutch and brake pedals, etc. and wondering if others have done this. It seem like the opportune time to insert these patches would be before I do the final installation of the floor panel.

I don't have a specific plan for my parking brake but I do plan to utilize a hanging clutch/brake pedal system with a firewall mounted brake booster/master and clutch hydraulic master.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Thu Apr 28 2022 02:19 AM
If I were closing holes in a patch panel, I would definitely do it before installing the patch panel. It allows you better access for welding and planishing.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Fri Jun 03 2022 09:32 PM
I have the floor patch panels in place as well as the rear cab corners and the fuel filler patch panel. I recently painted the underside of the cab with an epoxy primer (see Project Journal for picture) and plan to apply seam sealer and body filler as needed.

That leads to the next question, what do members recommend for final paint on the underside of the cab, runnings boards, inside fenders, inside of engine compartment, etc.?

I am anticipating the underside surfaces will all be painted black. I am having the frame blasted and painted by a local company that plans to blast, epoxy prime, and then paint the frame with a polyester paint they claim is pretty durable. I could ask them more about their finish paint and use the same for the underside body finishes but I'm curious what others recommend.

I have not determined my final choice for the outside of the truck but I am leaning toward a dark blue such as Mariner Blue.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sat Jun 04 2022 02:41 PM
I paint my inner fenders, running boards, bumper brackets, and upper and lower radiator baffles with epoxy primer on bare metal, them high- build sandable primer, then rattle can Rustoleum gloss black paint. Yes, I said rattle can. It flows like butter and really shines on smooth surfaces. Touch up is a breeze since it flows so nice and Ace Hardware always has it in stock.
I have won first place in all of the major expert judged shows in my area with this scheme.
Posted By: WICruiser Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Sun Jun 05 2022 11:50 AM
52Carl, thanks for your insight. I have used rattle can Rustoleum on other projects but wasn't sure it was appropriate for this one.

The one nice thing about rattle can paint is you don't spend a lot of time cleaning the paint gun. I think I spent more time cleaning the gun after spraying the primer than I did applying the paint.
Posted By: 52Carl Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Jun 07 2022 02:06 AM
I
Originally Posted by WICruiser
52Carl, thanks for your insight. I have used rattle can Rustoleum on other projects but wasn't sure it was appropriate for this one.

The one nice thing about rattle can paint is you don't spend a lot of time cleaning the paint gun. I think I spent more time cleaning the gun after spraying the primer than I did applying the paint.
I have used it on 3 different trucks, one of them was 10 years ago and it still looks close to as new.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 1949 Cab Repair - Tue Jun 07 2022 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by WICruiser
I think I spent more time cleaning the gun after spraying the primer than I did applying the paint.
I used to have that same issue with my old siphon feed spray gun. But then I bought a 3M Accuspray gun with their PPS system and cleaning the gun is a snap. I use a small squeeze bottle to fill the cup port with thinner and spray it out the nozzle. It just takes a couple times and the gun is clean (also remove the nozzle and wipe down the needle. The paint cup liner just gets tossed away. I'd recommend that to any hobbiest painter.

I do use rattle cans for small jobs.
© The Stovebolt Forums