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Posted By: 51bowtie 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Sat Sep 19 2020 12:11 AM
I've managed to screw up my ignition switch wiring big time. As you know, the 3100 switch is not marked for terminals and where they go. So I have traced everything back and here is what I have. I am ASSUMING that the two terminals on the switch are facing up and the single terminal is facing below. I have traced the following: To Coil +, to Elec Fuel Pump, to Gas Gauge, to Batt, to Ammeter + . Can someone tell me where the wires go? (assuming is have the orientation correct)
Posted By: Phak1 Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Sat Sep 19 2020 01:34 AM
The original switch, as you know has three terminals, but only two were used. When you turn on the switch, it powers both the ignition terminal and the other terminal (maybe for accessories) and when you turn off the switch, it disconnects the power to both. You can use a multimeter to see how each terminal is powered.

I’ve included a picture of the electrical diagram for a ‘51. Keep in mind that if you converted to 12 volts the wiring will be a bit different.

Attached picture BA9F843A-E459-490B-B505-241547061BFC.jpeg
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Sat Sep 19 2020 03:05 AM
I have converted to 12 volt and I do have the Diagram you attached. Just trying to figure where everything goes. Also does the switch turn off to ?the right or to the left?
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Sat Sep 19 2020 04:00 AM
Most all USA rotary on/off switches are CCW to off.

Does not matter which terminals are used on that switch as long as the hot feed is alone on one terminal. The other two are for everything else that is supposed to have "switched hot". Generally you would wire the switch per the wiring diagram. The 12V conversion has a few things different than on that diagram, as well as the electric fuel pump wiring.

Your switch works as follows. The 3 terminals have no continuity when switch off. Same 3 terminals have continuity when switch on. This can be confirmed quite easily with all wires disconnected and an ohm meter used. (continuity tester)
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Mon Sep 21 2020 04:21 PM
The Plot thickens. I have two supposedly identical switches. One tests for continuity going CCW and the other test for continuity going CW. I currently have the CCW to ON and my ammeter is constantly the hot lead so I put that on one terminal alone. Everything else got divided among the balance of the two terminals. With the ignition switch to ON, the electric pump comes on and everything seems copacetic .....except my Tach stopped working. WTH?
Posted By: klhansen Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Mon Sep 21 2020 05:59 PM
CCW ignition switch = Theft deterrent.
Either that or it was for a right-hand drive vehicle, operated with the left hand. wink

Recheck how your tach is connected. Must be something else other than the weird ignition switch.
Posted By: tclederman Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Mon Sep 21 2020 07:12 PM
Originally Posted by klhansen
CCW ignition switch = Theft deterrent.
Either that or it was for a right-hand drive vehicle, operated with the left hand. wink
. . .

Hmm, a good explanation why my Suburban's switch is wired "backwards"/incorrectly (for a few decades).
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Mon Sep 21 2020 08:20 PM
Remember, I said USA On/Off switches are CCW to off. That means a two position switch made for USA auto in the Stovebolt eras. Some three position switches could have accessory at CCW. I assume your switches are two position. Someone would have to show me a USA automotive two position switch with CCW as "ON" for sale.
When I said CCW to off, I meant at CCW, switch is off. 51bowtie: you said "I currently have the CCW to ON". Does that means the switch is ON when at CCW? That would be a crazy switch to use. The danger of leaving switch ON, over rides any theft deterrent.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Mon Sep 21 2020 08:35 PM
If it's a 3 position switch with left to right positions of ACC - OFF - ON, that might explain why the tach doesn't work if it's hooked to the ignition terminal and everything else is hooked to accessory terminal. Does it run with the switch all the way CCW?
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Tue Sep 22 2020 02:34 AM
Believe Me. Both are two position switches. Weirdest thing I ever seen. CCW to Off or CW to Off, you can only get the key out in the OFF position.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Tue Sep 22 2020 10:47 AM
Sure like to see these switches.
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Tue Sep 22 2020 03:01 PM
Come on down (or Up).
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Tue Sep 22 2020 06:47 PM
Pics.
Posted By: DADS50 Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Tue Sep 22 2020 08:18 PM
Originally Posted by 51bowtie
I have converted to 12 volt and I do have the Diagram you attached. Just trying to figure where everything goes. Also does the switch turn off to ?the right or to the left?



If you have the correct housing and ignition turning the key to the right from the center Position should be off and you can remove the key


If you can turn your key either left or right from center position then you probably have an incorrect part.
Probably have the housing for the no-key feature, the no-key switch has a little handel On it

Can you can post a pic of your set up? I have both type housings And can compare them


In any case just wire it per your 12 volt conversion kit
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Tue Sep 22 2020 09:21 PM
Just checked everything for the umpteenth time and here is what I have: By the way, both switches are IDENTICAL in their form...not so in their function...and both ARE two position.

Original Switch: Off is CCW. Turn CW to Continuity . Key comes out in the OFF position.
Replac, Switch: Off is CW. Turn CCW to Continuity, Key ONLY comes out if the ON position (so much for anti theft).

Think I will send the replacement back.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 12:47 AM
DADS50. When someone says right or left of center position, I think of a three position switch. Left-Center-Right. That's why we are referring to a two position switch as CCW ON or CW On. There is no center position on a two position ON/OFF switch. Please clarify. Bowtie says his switches are two position. Both have keys. I did not know there was a CCW ON, two position switch, for our trucks or any vehicle in our era. Learned something here. But Very Very odd even if switch is left of column.

51Bowtie: The reason we are asking for pics is for us and the next person with this issue. We will be able to better help them if we see these switches. We can then identify CCW ON switches and CW ON switches and etc. This post and all posts are used for the search function and for helping future Stovebolt members. You will be helping the knowledge base here. If you would also post the vendor and part number of the ones you purchased it would greatly help. We have tried to help and given you are best, we ask that you reciprocate with these follow up requests. (pictures and part numbers)

DADS50 can also post his comparison switches and his valued opinion.
Posted By: DADS50 Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 01:00 AM
This switch can be switched off by either turning key to the left or right [youtube.com]


I may have been thrown off by the him saying turning key to the left for off.

Here is a quick pic of the two different housings


[img]https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...F2E989D-DFF3-4D38-B22F-D9FA7652F9F2.jpeg[/img]

Attached picture EF2E989D-DFF3-4D38-B22F-D9FA7652F9F2.jpeg
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 01:17 AM
I'm not catching on to this. No one is making any sense to me. I don't think there is a two position switch available for our trucks that has off at CW. NONE! ZERO! Stop the madness. If you think you have a switch like that, you are nuts. Like in the head.
It does not matter to me if the key pulls out or where it pulls out. Don't care about lever handle or not. They are ALL off at CCW. There is a lot of misinformation going on here and bogus testing. I wish someone would be on my wave length here. Holy Moses. I need some back up, over? I'm fixin to do a a six pack of Foster's (Large Format) if no help is coming.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 01:24 AM
There are actually two ignition switches for AD trucks. One for 47-48 with the tab on the cylinder PN 1116452, and another for 49-54 without tab PN 1116464.
I don't know if there's a difference in how they work (that's the early switch in Dads50's video), or if the early one is even available as a repop. I can't see a real difference in Dads50's pictures of the switch bodies, other than the position of the cylinder removal plunger.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 01:33 AM
CLICK!!!!! [oldchevytrucks.com]
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 02:37 AM
Originally Posted by bartamos
Pics.
How do I send a pic?
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by bartamos
I'm not catching on to this. No one is making any sense to me. I don't think there is a two position switch available for our trucks that has off at CW. NONE! ZERO! Stop the madness. If you think you have a switch like that, you are nuts. Like in the head.
It does not matter to me if the key pulls out or where it pulls out. Don't care about lever handle or not. They are ALL off at CCW. There is a lot of misinformation going on here and bogus testing. I wish someone would be on my wave length here. Holy Moses. I need some back up, over? I'm fixin to do a a six pack of Foster's (Large Format) if no help is coming.
So how come I have one?
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 02:44 AM
Store pic in your computer picture files. I don't know how to post from a cell phone pic.

Click "Use Full Editor" at bottom of post. Then at lower left click "attachment manager", "Select file to attach" and it will go to your picture files on your computer. Select the pic and select open. Wait for load. Hit "Done". You may not see the image until you hit "Post Reply" and post refreshes.
Posted By: Justhorsenround Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 02:45 AM
51bowtie, photo Instructions are in the left margin of every page.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 02:52 AM
Quote
So how come I have one?
So how come you can't give the part number and vendor of the two switches? So I can eat crow. Don't need a picture that way.
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 03:33 AM
So how come you can't give the part number and vendor of the two switches? So I can eat crow. Don't need a picture that way.[/quote]
The original has been in the truck for 16+ years and the new one was purchased off ebay this month. Said it was for 47 to 53 AD Trucks. No Part number. When it came in it looked identical. Upon doing a continuity check with both switches, is when I made my initial inquiry.
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 01:33 PM
The 1958 Chevy school bus I rode from 1960 to 63 had a switch identical to that. "Run" was the center position. Left was "off and locked". Right was "off- - -unlocked", and the key could be removed in either "off" position. In order to access the "off/locked" position, the key had to be in the switch. In order to turn the switch with the key removed, there was a pigtail-shaped handle below the key slot. I believe I've seen that switch listed on the Rock Auto site.
Jerry
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 04:02 PM
see pics.

Attached picture IMG1.jpg
Attached picture IMG2.jpg
Attached picture IMG3.jpg
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Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 05:41 PM
In the picture showing down inside the housing, if you rotate one of the housings 180, they would look the same down inside. May not change anything, just mentioning it. Did you buy the Ebay switch housing or tumbler with key or all of it? Will the seller let you send it back? That's why I thought it was a vendor because you said you will send it back.
Anyway, can't comment on what is going on. Something is amiss.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 05:47 PM
Those two switches look just like Dads50's photo of 47-48 vs. later switch. The only difference I can see is the position of the plunger for cylinder removal.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 06:01 PM
Has everyone read my link at post #1378161. Nothing there about a goofy switch. Explains it all. The lever handle is a three position and was 47-48. CCW off. All the others are two position CCW off, CW ON. That's it. Nothing else.
Posted By: DADS50 Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 06:45 PM
Looking at your pics it looks like you have the correct ignition housing.

Something strange with that replacement, Those ebay purchases are hit and miss especially on the n.o.s. Items

Ive attached a better pic of the two different housingS, and a pic of the terminal block on the back.

I doubt if one of these could of been crimped incorrectly


Klhansen gave the correct part number for the lock cylinder , you want the 1116464


Im using The 1116452,

Attached picture 1410AC0C-A5B2-4A16-ABFF-224B5C17F7B5.jpeg
Attached picture 0FB6739E-D191-456A-898C-D6C94D3916A5.jpeg
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 06:53 PM
If it is possible to put that section on wrong, that is the answer. As you can see, the triangle contact plate rotates to "all on" or "all off". If the sections were put together wrong it would reverse the CW/CCW like bowtie has. If the sections can be put together wrong it's Murphys Law. I don't see any "keying" feature on the sections. So it absolutely positively could be crimped on wrong. By someone wanting to clean it, fix it or whatever and put it back together wrong. If there is a keying feature, it was circumvented.

Without DADS50 picture we would have never figured this out. OK DaddyO, why did you take it apart? grin Glad you did.

bowtie: It means you can fix the Ebay one if you wish. Also you may be able to do forensics on it and determine if someone had ever bent the crimp tabs open.
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 07:15 PM
Just so everyone knows the 1st two pictures are Replacement on the left, original on the right. Same for the second two. I kept the same orientation.
Posted By: DADS50 Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 08:03 PM
I have a couple of these in different states of dis repair


I thought we all has a messy drawer that looks like⬇️

Attached picture 551E2DB2-C6B7-4786-9F7C-8C2B555F69A9.jpeg
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 10:21 PM
Well thanks for all the investigative help bartamos, et al. DADS50 I just viewed your YouTube......Outstanding! I have more than a couple of drawers like that!
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Wed Sep 23 2020 11:00 PM
Unless otherwise specified, I think we made the correct diagnosis. I would be happy to fix the switch if you can't send it back and want it fixed.
Posted By: 51bowtie Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Thu Sep 24 2020 02:29 AM
Actually bartamos, I've already taken it apart and can't get it back together. Send me a PM and I'll send it to you.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 51 3100 Ignition Switch - Thu Sep 24 2020 09:47 AM
PM sent.
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