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Posted By: TerenceandMary 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 02:41 AM
I may be opening a can of worms here but, I was trying to get my fuel gauge working and noticed that there were no wires going to it. That wasn't surprising seeing as a good chunk of the wiring/rubber under the dash has mysteriously turned to rat poop over the last 20 or so years the truck sat. Then I see, once I had removed the cluster, that the back side of it was some sort of integrated circuit type of dealy that I'm not very familiar with. Does anybody have any experience restoring these? I thought that if there is no way to solder or repair the original thing that i would just run wire from the harness to the corresponding gauges/lights/ect...
Please tell me if thats a bad idea or would be to arduous of a journey to undergo. am i better off saving for replacement bits? I really like the look of the gauge cluster and would like to keep it as original as i can (and still functional)
What do y'all think?

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Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 03:18 AM
what do you call that thin black conductive metal strips that connect each piece of the circuit?
Posted By: 3B Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 04:16 AM
Hy TerenceandMary, I think on most of those printed circuit type dash wiring boards the conductive material is a copper foil. I have repaired small sections of them by using the same material that was sold to repair the defroster grids inside rear windows of vehicles, hope that helps.
Posted By: BC59 Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 04:39 AM
GMC cluster, used fron 60 to 66, should be able to find a used one.
Posted By: Rusty Rod Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 04:08 PM
There are aftermarket printed circuits available for my 67... I'd bet they make them for the 60-66 too. They are not very expensive either. Another thought. If you have to replace part of it, maybe upgrade to the full gauge package while you are at it.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 07:36 PM
Thank y'all for the help, I will definitely check check that out. The defrosting repair stuff is a good idea, I will keep that in mind.Sadly, It seems that almost all of the material is gone though so i will probably try to find aftermarket printed material.
@Rusty Rod - what do you mean upgrade to full gauge? would that include tachometer or clock or something?My cluster includes the oil pressure gauge ,fuel gauge, speedometer, water temp., and another that just says temperature.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 08:23 PM
Can't seem to dig up a printed circuit cluster from before 1967. I will keep looking around, but I don't have much of a budget so I don't think I will be replacing the whole cluster anytime soon. has anyone had success using the window defroster stuff to make up a majority of the circuit?
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 09:05 PM
That one's easy to "restore". There's a special tool that's used to burnish the contacts where the panel lights, idiot lights, and instruments make contact. It's sold at Walmart- - - - -called a #2 pencil! There's just enough abrasive in the eraser to scrub away the corrosion to get a good contact, and the areas between contacts don't have to be cleaned at all. If a conductor has lost its grip on the circuit board, Elmer's waterproof household glue or even super glue makes an excellent adhesive to stick it back down. Broken conductors can be repaired with a strand or two of thin copper wire and a soldering iron, Just burnish the broken spot, lay a short bare wire patch down, and quickly solder the wire to the conductor strip.

You can fabricate the bulb socket contact strips from brass shim stock and a pair of manicurist's cuticle scissors, glue them into place, and glue wires to the circuit boards to replace large sections of the missing foil. Electrons don't really care if the conductors they're using are round or flat!
Jerry
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 09:14 PM
@Hotrod Lincoln: That is great information to know, seems like it should be pretty straight forward. Im not sure if you can tell by the pictures (I'm not the best photographer) but nearly all of the conductive material, therefor cleaning contacts and gluing down whats left would just be spinning my wheels at the stage in restoration I seem to be trapped in.

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Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 09:17 PM
If you can't fix it I can. Send me a PM if you like- - - - -.
Jerry
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 09:17 PM
Awesome! I knew there would be ways around that, the thin copper wire soldered down only makes sense. looks like when it cools off out there I'm gonna be spending a bit of time sittin' in the truck soldering
Posted By: LeeD Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 09:34 PM
To answer part of your question; the circuit board is just a way to run a signal to all the different connections behind the dash without individual wires doing the work. The plug next to the speedometer has all the wires running to that single plug that has to line up a certain way to match up with the bare copper on the circuit board. In a 69 car that I use to own, all I had to do to remove the cluster was to disconnect the plug and speedometer cable to free the unit.
As best as I can tell, yours appears to be maybe missing some of the copper conduit at least at one of your dash lights; if that is correct, then everything downstream of that will not work. If you are missing pieces of the copper, then I would think it would be very difficult to repair. Cleaning the exposed copper so as to make a better connection is easy, just do as Jerry suggested with a pencil eraser. It is probably also easy enough to repair any damage to the non conduction film that covers the copper wire.

Lee.
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 10:11 PM
Just unplug the connector (it pulls straight out of the cluster) and do the repair work at a workbench with a good light source, and possibly a way to clamp it down. Repairing that circuit board is tedious work. Go slow and be careful! You can get brass shim stock in various thicknesses on Ebay, or since I've got the stuff in big rolls for adjusting 216 engine connecting rod bearing clearance, I'd be glad to send you some.
Jerry
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 10:24 PM
The connector is like pressed in and i wouldn't be able to remove it without destroying the spot it plugs into or cutting all the wires(that are now almost all the same color) and marking them off to be routed properly
I'm missing alot of the copper, I do have all the bulbs and screws and whatnot in my ashtray since im not one to trow away or misplace things of that nature
I just got some pencils and glue to do what cleaning/prep/repair to whats left of the thing.
Thank you Jerry that is a very nice offer. I'm gonna have to fester on this one a little while. I will find some brass shim stock and see how that does for me.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 10:47 PM
I may remove the steering wheel and set up a small makeshift bench / un-clip the wiring harness to pull the cluster out a bit further. The whole thing is probably one of the mare challenging parts I have done to this truck. I have some wiring experience (wired a new rear ECU in my old 90's benz) but this is a different animal because of how old every little bit is.
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 10:48 PM
Soak the connector with some penetrating oil (like WD-40 or PB Blaster). Wait a few days if necessary and wiggle it a little. Any oily residue can be cleaned off with alcohol or naptha. Another approach would be to cut the wires off 2-3 inches away from the connector and splice them back together later. It's going to be nearly impossible to do the circuit board repair under the dash.
Jerry
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 11:04 PM
I will try soaking it and see where that gets me. I never want to pull on that stuff very hard, I know a lot of people who did more damage than repair when undergoing projects like this.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 14 2020 11:06 PM
oh yeah, and what gauge brass shim stock do you think would be ideal for this situation?
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Sep 15 2020 12:22 AM
Pretty thin stuff- - - -maybe .002" or .003" thick. You can trim it to shape and glue it down, using the shadow on the circuit board at the light socket holes as a pattern. Then glue a piece of bare wire to the board, following the pattern that's there, and tack-solder the wire to the shim stock. I like to use a very high heat soldering gun, (250 watt) and do a quick tack with the gun at max heat. It only takes a couple of seconds to get a good bond. Use rosin core electronic solder, not acid core sheet metal tinners' solder.
Jerry
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Sep 15 2020 12:33 AM
Nice, I will have to get a better soldering gun for it. Thank you for all the help with this. I will get the wires soaking tomorrow and try to get the materials together Thank you again I would be lost without all the people here.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Fri Sep 18 2020 05:18 PM
After much soaking, I have come to the conclusion that I will need to cut the wires to get it out.
Does What gauge of copper wire do i solder down to the brass shim stock?
Do I just pull 2 or 3 strands out of some wire i have laying around?
Posted By: Rusty Rod Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Fri Sep 18 2020 06:11 PM
Before cutting any wires, you should "youTube" your problem; if the problem exists more than a few times, someone will video the process to correct the problem.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Fri Sep 18 2020 06:40 PM
The black is a conductive protective coating I believe. The copper is the conductor. There is nothing wrong with the copper runs that I can see. All is still connected. The connector just lifts off with prying with several plastic tools in two or three places. Gently raising it up. Not that big of a deal. Slow and easy.

You mis diagnosed your fuel gauge problem. Nothing wrong with the PC board except flaking coating. All of your gauges and bulbs "have wires going to them" in the form of a copper conductor.

The copper does not need cleaning except around contact areas at gauges and bulbs. Cleaning the runs does nothing and may remove copper.

I think you may be missing a thin plastic sheet covering. Not sure.

An option is to take the caps off of the fuel gauge and take the nuts off and the gauge will come loose. If you think its the copper runs or coating that is your fuel gauge problem, after testing the gauge or getting a new gauge or sender, put gauge on again and wire it separately with wires and crimp on ring tongue terminals attached to the gauge terminal studs.

Chances are your gauge problem is the sender, the gauge or ground. Testing needs to be done. You are getting ready to damage the PC board, entire gauge cluster and there is no need to cut connector wires.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sat Sep 19 2020 07:31 PM
Well I haven't done anything yet, Just alot of looking and planning. The grounds were the first place I looked, I cleaned and re-connected them. I have nothing on the cluster working. I will chase some wires when it cools off out there and see if there is anything wrong in between the cluster and fuse box.

I have checked YouTube but haven't found anything that seems to pertain to my problem, I may not be wording my search correctly?

I definitely don't want to damage anything, I will do some testing on all that and confirm continuity.

I'm sure I am missing the plastic sheet covering, 60 years in the desert has turned most of the plastics to dust.

Probably need to replace the bulbs (especially since my 3yo took one of them and lost it)
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sat Sep 19 2020 08:10 PM
Here are some better pics of the plug and some of the problem areas.

Still not sure if I should try to unplug it or even remove it at all. to me those pins don't look like they should be pulled out or pried on.

If it is just the protective coating that has come off is the copper underneath it ok? I can see the copper on some of it but other parts are just white not sure if the copper is under that or missing.

I will still be checking continuity later this evening and get back with the results.

Thank you all again for your help. I would much rather ask stupid questions here than screw up parts that were basically okay to begin with.

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Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 20 2020 01:47 AM
I checked it all with a multi-meter and it seems to me that the only thing conductive here is the black stuff that's coming off, it seems that the lights make contact directly with the black material. I do seem to be missing a wire from the plug bit that goes to the temp gauge, may answer why the P.O. had 2 temp gauges. I did find a bad ground I had missed before, but I think that the black stuff is the only conductive bit there. I may be wrong but on any section of the "copper" bit beneath was all open line.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 20 2020 08:56 PM
Ok, stand by for awhile. Trying to get info. ALSO, as you know there are only two gauges. Temp and fuel. The oil press and the gen are idiot lights. If you are on a real tight budget, You have two choices other than buying a donor part from Ebay. You can install gauges and idiot lights under or on the dash....or you can hard wire the existing gauge cluster and abandon the copper runs. Some work involved of course. If you decide on those, let me know so I can terminate my study of the flex print issue. If you have decided to move on to other things, let us know that also. If you are still gung ho on any of the options, we will continue to help with what you choose to do. The best and easiest remedy is a donor part, but I understand if that is over budget. Please advise your latest thoughts.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 12:00 AM
Thank you, I am on a tight budget. I know in the cluster is only the 2, the electric temp gauge and the fuel gauge. also in dash on either side of the cluster I have a mechanical temp gauge on the left and a oil pressure gauge on the right. Neither temp gauge works, so I wanted to repair the cluster then swap my oil pressure gauge to the left and add a tach to the right. I figure that hard wiring the lights and gauges in the cluster (and probably replacing the temp sensor itself) will be the best and most cost effective way to go about it. Out in the desert I really need a temp gauge that works before I can go anywhere but the hardware store and gas station. I figure I can ask my wife for a tach for Christmas and I have almost everything other than that to do the rest hard wired.

would I just solder to the tabs on the bulb sockets?

I assume that for all of it I just follow the lines on the board to the where it made contact with the gauges and whatnot and solder directly to places it used to make contact with. That may be naive of me to think though.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 02:05 AM
Best option in your case.
1. Cut off wires on connector far enough back to be able to use connector someday or to sell it.
2. Pry connector off panel.
3. Use the attached wiring diagram to see hook up and colors.
4. Use or replace the fuel gauge and the temp gauge on the panel by hard wiring to the stud terminals. Splice a wire from proper cut wire end to gauges.
5. Hard wire the oil pressure side gauge and change the other temp side gauge to a voltmeter and hard wire it. Splice a wire from proper cut wire end to gauges. (I can advise on the voltmeter hook up)
6. Don't need indicator bulbs for Gen or Oil.
7. Hard wire to turn signal bulb. Solder or otherwise attach wire to sockets
8. Hard wire to dash light bulbs. Solder or otherwise attach wire to sockets.
9. Hard wire to high beam bulb. Solder or otherwise attach wire to socket

No soldering to copper. Copper is dead when connector wires cut. It will all look the same as now with no flex print involved.

When you are ready to begin, post pics of motor and engine bay and show all the wiring under hood.

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Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 02:17 AM
That sounds perfect! and thank you for the diagram. I couldn't find anything that accurate, only stuff that was close.
I will have to pick up a voltmeter to put in place of the temp side.
Tomorrow I will make the cut and pry up the connector from the panel with some plastic prying tools and add it to my box of things that came off of or were in the truck.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 02:19 AM
I edited my post. please reread. Glad you like the plan. WARNING: Even thought we have the diagram wit colors and hook up, make sure you know what wire went to what connector pin/wire before cutting. On the diagram they are A, B, C etc. Probably better to pry off first. Notice the key tab on connector. That is how you know what each wire is on the circle. Take pics, make a drawing.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 05:02 PM
Yes I plan on taking pics and making drawings and going nice and slow. I may even fold over some making tape and number them.
I will post pics of under the hood in a little later (hopefully some of the smoke clears) for now I have a couple but they are now very good.
The wiring for some components confuses me a little bit, I know some of it is pretty methed up from the P.O.

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Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 06:10 PM
Also was wondering if it would be advantageous to use a quick connect between cluster and harness. Like to hard wire all lights/gauges to a 12 pin connector and put that in place of the original plug.( thought it might make it easier as far as working on the cluster outside of the truck and carefully mapping out what wire goes where.

https://www.amazon.com/Deutsch-12-p...+connector&qid=1600711279&sr=8-3

let me know if and why that is a bad idea.
Posted By: klhansen Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 06:15 PM
I think you're on the right track. It would be easier to accomplish with a separate connector. You would want to tie down all the wires coming from the cluster as a strain relief between the cluster and connector.
That way you don't have to mess with the original connector that plugs into the circuit board.

[on edit] "methed up" is an awesome description. I may have to appropriate that description. With your permission of course. grin
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 07:02 PM
Feel free to use "methed up" anytime my wife came up with it and said that's okay lol, she can word that stuff so much nicer than me.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 07:19 PM
I suppose it would be easier to "rebuild" the cluster and do all the hard wiring on the bench using a new connector.
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 07:48 PM
Cut the plastic wrap around the wire harness back a few inches. The wire that's been protected by the wrapping will have much better color coding than what's been exposed to heat and light. Make your cut far enough away from the dash cluster that you have good color codes to follow wen you reinstall the gauge cluster, even if you choose to add a new quick connector. You can solder one end of the new pigtail wires directly to the conductors on the circuit board for the original plug, once you get it dislodged, and eliminate that one really bad wiring repair that's shown in your first picture series. Good luck!
Jerry
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 07:58 PM
Has the truck been running and driving? Do you have a generator and a voltage regulator? Motor starts and runs? Lights and other electricals OK? Except dash.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 09:00 PM
Truck runs great and I have driven it probably 3-4 miles on the street and I try to start it and drive a few feet forward then back every couple days (my 3 year old really likes that, he calls it racing), it has a generator. The truck starts after about 3-5 turns of the motor as long as it's choked. headlights/hi-beam work and fog lights as well as windshield wipers and occasionally my tail lights will light up (likely a short). my brake lights don't work and neither do my blinkers, radio, heater, and nothing on dash. the only gauge that works is my oil pressure gauge that's mechanical (I set it up when getting the motor to start). I went through the distributor, replaced the points and gapped them, replaced all the spark plug wires and plugs and battery terminals as well as clean the grounds under the hood that directly related to it running. not sure if dome light works,never put a bulb in it but im sure the wires to it are chewed up.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 10:41 PM
Most of those electrical issues are not shorts, they are ground. That's for later. Longer discussion on how to fix each one.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 21 2020 10:54 PM
yeah I figure I would tackle one problem at a time, I didn't think getting my gas gauge to work would be this much but its all stuff that needs to be done so its all for the better.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Sep 22 2020 12:04 AM
Besides no start/no spark.............gas gauge is the no.1 electrical issue on Stovebolt.com
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Sep 22 2020 12:12 AM
Now I can see why it can be such a problem. Thank you all for your guidance here.


With the aid of very soft plastic prying tools I was able to disconnect the plug from the cluster. I have marked off all the wires on the harness with letters corresponding to the wiring diagram for future reference.

I also removed the temp gauge from the cluster, next I will need to buy a voltmeter (to replace temp gauge) and some different colored 18g wires as well as some new bulbs/sockets (seeing as every one I have has broken tabs. All my bulbs were on the floor buried in about a foot of rat poop when I got the truck home).

I'm slowly mapping out the routes my wires will be taking to get to the proper place, I will be eliminating the GEN light and OIL light seeing as they are or are going to be replaced with gauges.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Sep 22 2020 01:01 AM
Good progress.

FYI Update: The early clusters had some kind of printed circuitry on the back of the plastic housing like yours. Later in 64 they went to a flex print which is protected by/encapsulated in polymer sheets and does not have that black coating. Much better, So if you ever decide to replace, use a 64 and up donor housing and flex print interconnect. Uses the same connector. See pic of 64-66 type.

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Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Sep 22 2020 07:31 PM
I had seen that those should be available, I have yet to be able to find one anywhere.

Does anyone have a link to one? I have been searching for days now and nothings working, I've tried yelling at it, excessively drinking, google! and still nothing!
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Sep 22 2020 10:10 PM
Originally Posted by TerenceandMary
I had seen that those should be available, I have yet to be able to find one anywhere.

Does anyone have a link to one? I have been searching for days now and nothings working, I've tried yelling at it, excessively drinking, google! and still nothing!

Maybe you know this already. The only thing available is a donor (used cluster). They are on Ebay many times. Usually you have to buy the whole thing. You can't just buy the flex print, if that is what you mean. The picture is from Ebay.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Sep 22 2020 11:03 PM
Yeah, I found 1 that was about $400, it sold out before I could check how much I had lol.

I think I'm going to try to work with this one for now, if I can't get it working then I always have the option of a used one or aftermarket setup.

I'm not just poor I'm broke! so working with what I got is the best option at the moment.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Wed Sep 23 2020 11:50 PM
Just so my conscience is clear and I have said all possible remedies: I tried to say that the copper is still viable after the black is removed. I said not to clean the copper. I believed the copper runs were still all OK, just flaking coating. However, you said you could not get continuity. I didn't have you explain what you did, how you tested, what meter, what setting, where probes were placed and if you investigated where the copper was "broken". Or ask for pictures of copper gaps. Also, you are a mechanic. So that's why I abandoned using the existing circuit, and moved to suggesting something else without questioning your "continuity tests".

I do see all those white areas in your pics and assumed that was missing copper instead of glare from camera, discolored copper or residue from the black coating. I had to assume the copper was "eaten away" somehow....... or scraped away by someone trying to clean. The copper is probably only .005-.010 thick.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Fri Sep 25 2020 09:20 PM
I have not cleaned any of the copper or black stuff or anything like that, I couldn't get continuity from any spot on the board. I checked for about 2 hours testing small sections (about a cm at a time) at different resistances (ohms) and with audible continuity with a multi-meter. While testing I slowly and gently rolled the probe along the copper stuff as well as poking into some of the copper type stuff on the outside of the spot where the lights make contact, but where I could tell the tabs on the bulbs don't touch.

In the sections with the black stuff I would get continuity but it seemed that the black stuff was what was conductive, (I tested a piece of just the black stuff that had fallen off and was resting on my steering column and it was conductive but only on the underside).

All the white spots are just that, not glare, It would appear that when the black stuff started to de-laminate it may have taken some of the copper with it?

The spots where you can see some copper coloring mixed in with the white almost all reads open line or 0 even with the probes being just mm apart on the small patches of copper, The best I got was a short beep in audible continuity on some of the copper where one of the lights makes contact, but only on a very small section, but that spot is just a small blob of copper on the white spots I can't get anything (some kind of glue maybe)?

It does appear that the P.O. did some weird stuff back here trying to get it working (like the screw for the ground on the fuel gauge). he may have tried to clean or remove the copper in some way (you know how them tweekers can be with wiring) lol

so far hard wiring it all seems to me to be the cheapest/best alternative for what I am trying to achieve but I am very open to options seeing as I haven't quite started yet due to lack of money.
Posted By: Rusty Rod Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Fri Sep 25 2020 09:32 PM
$89 on ebay now. https://www.ebay.com/itm/64-66-Chevy-Truck-Dash-Gauge-Instrument-Cluster-C10-20-30-K-Surburban/264506442221?hash=item3d95d001ed:g:CLgAAOSwd0pdrfph.

not mine!!
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Fri Sep 25 2020 09:40 PM
@Rusty Rod - That's awesome, if it's still there by the first I will get it

how challenging would it be to wire that in as opposed to hard wiring my existing gauge cluster?
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sat Sep 26 2020 08:25 PM
As far as adding a volt meter in pace of the electric temp gauge, is there a particular one y'all recommend? if not I will probably go with the cheapest one at tractor supply that fits.
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 27 2020 12:09 AM
Why substitute a useless gauge like a voltmeter for something as important as a temp gauge? Even if the battery and/or charging system fails completely, it's not going to barbecue the engine before you realize what's going on. The original instrument panel has a built-in idiot light for the charging system- - - -what else do you need?
Jerry
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 27 2020 07:10 AM
@ Hotrod Lincoln - I have 2 temp gauges 1 electronic and 1 mechanical so I planned on eliminating the electronic one as well as the gen light and oil light (seeing as I have a mechanical oil pressure gauge as well) to make my new hard wired harness a little more simple.

I know it's not just going to fry without anything like a volt meter or ammeter, just trying to fill my empty spot in the dash with something simple to wire in and fits nicely.
was also considering adding a tach in place of the oil pressure gauge and moving the oil pressure to where the electronic temp gauge that was built into the cluster, but that seemed like a bit more work.
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 27 2020 01:49 PM
If you're planning to butcher up the original dash arrangement, why not just fabricate a new panel from a piece of aluminum sheet metal and move all the gauges into a single location- - - - -right in front of you where the factory put them in the first place? A piece of 1/8" thick aluminum cut to fit the dash opening can be laid out any way you want, using aftermarket gauges. All it takes is a hole saw and a rotary file in a drill motor to make a hole the size of the gauge you want, and the arrangement of the gauges can be laid out exactly like some of those ridiculously expensive custom gauge clusters on Ebay. There's plenty of room in the dash opening to install a matching-size speedometer and tach, flanked by small-diameter oil pressure, temperature, ammeter, and even manifold vacuum gauges if you choose.

That would also eliminate the need to rehab a trashed original equipment panel you're planning on butchering up anyway.
Jerry
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 27 2020 09:22 PM
Well, I hardly consider it butchering, it's closer to surgery.
Fabrication of a new panel is a bit out of my price range, seeing as I would need to buy some cutting tools, the aluminum, and all the gauges. I understand that it would all fit however I wanted it to but I simply can't afford it.

My existing panel, in my opinion, is beautiful. and worth being saved (if only ascetically).

As far as my budgetary restraints go, My wife, son, and I, all live off $11,000 a year. I have spent maybe $2300 on the truck in the last 3 years including purchase price. (mostly from the money I get from recycling).

I have most of what I need laying around my garage to hard wire my existing panel/cluster. I was only looking at the volt meter because it seemed cheap and easy to install, If it's not then I will just leave the dead temp in there so I don't have an empty spot on my dash.

My main goal is to have a working gas gauge, speedometer, blinker sig, and hi-beam. My mechanical temp and oil pressure have been working fine.

If I had enough to fabricate my own dash panel/cluster I would just buy a used cluster from Ebay that still works.

Sometimes people do what they do not because they want to, but because they have to.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 27 2020 09:23 PM
Not sure there is any butchering up of the original. It will remain pretty much in tact and the look will be very close to original. I recommend to stay on the plan if possible.
A tach will serve no real purpose for this motor and truck. Especially when on a budget.
I would avoid a mechanical gauge on the plastic housing part of the cluster. I think the plastic housing could crack because of the stress from the heavy, stiff cable on a mechanical gauge. Use electrical only.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 27 2020 10:08 PM
On my mechanical gauges where they mount to the plastic panel have 2 round steel plates that sandwich the plastic between them. (P.O. cut the holes to big for the gauges) It seems to help spread the stress of the mounting points across more surface area. for plastic that has sat in the desert for 60 years it is remarkably undamaged, only crack is on one of the spots where 1 of the screws goes to hold the cluster to the panel.

I figured that a tach is fairly useless seeing as I can hear the rpms of the motor all the time anyways, and I have an old dwell meter in the garage if I ever do need to know for sure what the rpms are.

really just trying to decide what temp gauge to use and what to put in place of the one that's getting removed.

The only reason I was leaning towards the mechanical temp gauge is that it seems to have been installed to replace the electronic one once it stopped functioning. Sadly it would appear that the mechanical temp gauge's line was chewed through by some sort of super rat, I would assume. (super rats must like ether).

I'm not sure where the electronic temp gauge goes. when I start following the wires (and using the wiring diagram as reference), I notice that I'm missing the wires the go from it to the motor. They disappear somewhere in the middle of the harness. (it got to hot outside to keep cutting the tape back).

Either way I'm still waiting until the first when I can pick up the remaining materials need. (as long as it's about $50 or less). If I exceed that price range it's waiting another month. So I have lots of time to think about and plan what I'm doing there.
Posted By: bartamos Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Sep 27 2020 11:37 PM
Understood, use either electrical or mechanical. If electrical, the sender has to match the gauge. Use any gauges that fit and you may or may not want the same sweep, face color and markings. All up you you. Plenty of gauges to choose from. Local auto parts and internet. Find one that looks good to you and priced in your range. A mechanical will have no issues with matching a sender like the electrical one will.
Posted By: Rusty Rod Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 28 2020 01:18 AM
I used a set of after market gauges in the panel of my 67 suburban, I attached them inside the front cover. They look ok, but a purist would know.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Sep 28 2020 09:02 PM
So I think for now I will wire up everything as planned except I will leave the temp gauge* in the cluster in place and just not wired up for now. I can always go back and add the right gauge as it comes along (maybe a clock?)

I will keep y'all up to date with the progress as I go, right now I'm trying to find some nice flat colored plastic to cut new hi-beam/blinker lenses for the little bulbs.

Once I get a 12 pin pigtail connector I can start soldering and really get this show on the road.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Oct 06 2020 08:40 PM
Got everything soldered in and hooked up.

Everything is working except fuel gauge, but made progress on it. It used to do nothing but read full, now when I start the truck it wiggles a little but is still at full. I will check the ground at the tank but I think it may be something in the sending unit that's gone wrong. I will read some more on here about testing all that stuff.

At least now that that's all wired up I can chase the wires from there to find where my problems are.

Sorry I forgot to take pics before putting it all in the dash.

Attached picture 20201006_121100.jpg
Posted By: Rusty Rod Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Oct 06 2020 09:11 PM
Nice work.
Posted By: glenns towing Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Oct 06 2020 09:45 PM
Looks good. Touch the back of the gauge with a ground wire directly from the battery. Usually when fuel gauge pegs full its a bad ground. Make sure sender is grounded good also.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Tue Oct 06 2020 10:41 PM
Thanks, I think it must be a loose ground because now when I turn the key it starts to go down then pegs back up. It didn't move at all before I hard wired it.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sat Oct 10 2020 11:30 PM
checked the grounds and all seems good, by grounding out the sender I can get the gauge to pin to empty. Sender reads around 30 ohmz (my tank is about empty). The gauge wiggles a little when I start the truck or turn on the ignition.

any other ways to check whats going on? right now I figure I need a new sending unit, am I right?
Posted By: glenns towing Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sat Oct 10 2020 11:53 PM
No. If your tank is empty, then you grounded the gauge and it then it reads empty. The problem is a bad ground as you just verified. Ground the gauge with a permanent attachment and put gas in the tank. It should then read higher than empty or full, depending on how much fuel you added. Therefore working correctly 👌
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Sun Oct 11 2020 01:45 AM
yup, it was the ground at the gauge. I got it to move when I wiggled the wire. I will tackle that tomorrow.
Posted By: TerenceandMary Re: 62' Cluster (can it be saved?) - Mon Oct 19 2020 08:58 PM
Interesting... well now that I have put some gas in the truck (at least 3/4 of a tank) my needle still says E
it has a little wiggle to it when I start the truck just like before but this time instead of being stuck at F its at E
when it was stuck at F before I got it to stick at E by replacing the ground at the gauge
I also changed out the ground at sender.
as well as the wire from sender to fuse block, but I didn't clean the tab on the fuse block itself before plugging in maybe that's where my problem is?
It's a little to smokey today to do much outside, maybe it will clear up in a while.
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