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Posted By: JoeR 1940 size question - Thu May 20 2021 02:20 PM
Well I ended up selling my '46 3/4 ton stakebed. Neighbor complained to the HOA because it wasn't running. Some rule about non-operating vehicles not being allowed to be parked in the driveway, blah blah blah. I hate Home Owners Associations (and the people with no lives who run them).

Anyway, I found what was listed as a '39 Chevy and bought it. However, from what I've been able to figure out from the photos it is really a '40. (it's not here yet, it's sitting on the transport vehicle). I also never asked what size it was, 1/2 ton, 3/4 ton. I've been looking at photos and it seems that there was also a short bed and long bed in that year. I tried to get the Service Manual for the '40s but the pages with all the truck specs is missing from the one on OldCarManuals. Anyway, in the photos I've seen one version has very little distance between the bed side upright support and the front of the rear fender. I'm guessing this is a shortbed. The other photo shows much more distance between these two areas, so I'm thinking this is the long bed version. Any thoughts?

Joe


Description: This is the one that looks like a shortbed
Attached picture short bed photo.jpg

Description: This looks like a long bed
Attached picture Long Bed Photo.jpg

Description: This is mine
Attached picture 2.jpg
Posted By: buoymaker Re: 1940 size question - Thu May 20 2021 03:53 PM
You should have placed one of those large stuffed sock monkeys with sunglasses and beach hat in the driver's seat.
Then stick a big sign in the ground that says, "Work of Art".

Here are specs for the 39:
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/39index.htm
and the 40:
http://chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com/chevyresto/40index.htm

Attached picture 1939 Chassis.jpg
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Fri May 21 2021 01:35 AM
Hi Bouy,

The truck was at a shop for a long time and they ended up not doing the work I wanted so I had them tow the truck back to the house. I had them back it into the drive way. As it turned out it was the week before Halloween so I bought one of those life size plastic skeletons and stood him up with one foot on the running board a a hand on the mirror, like he was combing his hair (skull). The idiot neighbor thought the whole thing was a decoration, like I'd buy this truck and set it up just for Halloween. Anyway, the week after the stuff hit the fan, and away went the truck.

Those are the manuals I came up with too. If you notice all the dimensions are missing from the 1940 manual. I'm thinking the one I bought is a long bed judging by the photos I attached. On the sort of Army green truck the front of the rear fender seems a lot closer to that support upright and the front of the bed than the fender on the black and red truck, as well as on the one I'm buying. I guess I'll just have to wait for delivery and see what I bought.

Joe
Posted By: J Lucas Re: 1940 size question - Fri May 21 2021 02:24 AM
Hello Joe,

To me it looks like only the red one has the correct fenders. The other two have big bolt front fenders. The rougher looking truck's rear fenders I think are for an Advance Design series truck. Matter of fact, that might be an AD bed as well.

Yeah, HOA's are ridiculous. That's one of the reasons I moved from a newer to an older neighbor hood.

John
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Fri May 21 2021 01:45 PM
Originally Posted by J Lucas
Hello Joe,

To me it looks like only the red one has the correct fenders. The other two have big bolt front fenders. The rougher looking truck's rear fenders I think are for an Advance Design series truck. Matter of fact, that might be an AD bed as well.

Yeah, HOA's are ridiculous. That's one of the reasons I moved from a newer to an older neighbor hood.

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the info. I did notice as sort of change in the contour where the rear fender meets the running board on the one I'm buying. Is that from a larger truck? Also the one I'm buying has what looks like a steel bed floor rather than wood. I don't really car because I'm probably going to buy a new bed once it gets here. The front piece and tailgate are rusted through on it. Does anyone know if any company out there makes reproduction fenders out of steel? I've seen some fiberglass ones but I was hoping to find steel ones. As I said I found a company that makes steel bed boxes and tailgates but so far no luck with fenders.

Joe
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Fri May 21 2021 01:49 PM
Hi again John,

I just started looking through the gallery at some of the 3/4 ton pick ups and see that there is a second upright support that is just in front of the rear fender on the 3/4 ton trucks. So it looks like this one is a 1/2 ton. I'm wondering if there was a longer bed version?

Joe
Posted By: 35mike Re: 1940 size question - Fri May 21 2021 02:04 PM
All of the trucks in the photos are 1940, according to grille and fender lights. There were no long bed 1/2 ton Chevy pickups before 1955 2nd series. There were long bed 1/2 ton GMC Trucks earlier but I am not sure when.
What appears to be a long bed 1/2 ton Chevy, starting in 1937 and continuing through 1941 ('42?) is a 3/4 or one ton. These trucks had 6 hole wheels and a 10" longer wheelbase than their 1/2 ton siblings. The 3/4 tons came with 15" artillery wheels and the 1 tons came with 17" snap ring wheels to clear the 14" rear brakes.
New steel reproduction fenders are available for '40 through '46 pickups for around $1,000 each.
FYI, 1939 rear fenders are different in that they are about 1-1/2 inches wider that the later fender. '39 and '40 front fenders are the same and fit 1/2, 3/4, and 1 ton models. All of the trucks in the photos are wearing their proper front fenders.

Mike
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Fri May 21 2021 03:01 PM
Hey Mike,

Thank you for all the help. I agree on the year of the trucks. Also the interior on mine is definitely a 1940 with the rectangular instrument cluster and the waterfall dash. I noticed that on the one I'm buying the front wheels have 6 lug wheels but the rears have 5 lug wheels. It has just standard wheels from what I can see in the photos. I'm not sure if that means someone switched out the rear end at some point or what. Do the rear fenders on the one I'm buying look correct? I've been looking at later year trucks and those appear to have that contour at the bottom of the leading edge of the fender. None of the photos of '40 trucks seem to have those.

Do you know what company supplies the reproduction fenders. The driver's side front on this one looks to have a lot of rust through and I'm not sure my welding skills are sufficient to repair it. Of course I'm going to give it a try but I'd like to have a Plan B should my repairs meet my expectations, lol.

Joe
Posted By: 35mike Re: 1940 size question - Sat May 22 2021 03:33 PM
Joe,
The rear fenders on your truck are from a '47 through '55 first series truck. If they are decent, they have value to someone with an AD (Advanced Design) style truck. I saw the reproduction, '40 - '46, rear fenders on eBay but I do not see them there now. I'm sure they will re-appear. I have a used (needs work) rear fender I would sell. I can't remember which side.
I noticed that the rear axle had been changed on your truck. If it is an enclosed driveshaft, it must have come from a '49-'54 Chevy passenger car. If it is open driveshaft, it could be anything.
Front fenders pop up on eBay from time to time. You have to know what you are buying because sometimes the seller describes a fender as fitting a pickup when, in fact, it is a big truck fender. They are easy to tell apart, especially from the front view. Look at the frame notch on your fenders when you get the truck. It is 2 inches or more. The fenders for 1-1/2 ton trucks have only about a 1/2 inch notch. The wheel opening is much larger also.

I have owned my '39 1/2 ton since about 1975 and have a '39 dump truck (parts-ish), 1940 1-1/2 ton Cab and Chassis (restorable). I sold a 1939 Fire truck to another Bolter last year. I've learned a little along the way.

Mike
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Sat May 22 2021 10:37 PM
Hi Mike,

Yeah, I've been looking at photos and you're right about the rear fenders. I have this app that searches all of Craigslist for a particular item. Only problem is, as you said, some people don't know what they have. I found a pair but I'm waiting to hear back. That's the other issue, people who put ads up and then don't ever reply to your question. Ah well, such is life on the ol' interweb.

I have found American Classic Trucks who carry all the parts I need for the bed, but that's all they do. I also found a few places that carry fiberglass fenders, yuk. I'll just keep looking and see what pops up.

I kind of thought there was an issue with the rear axle. The truck is supposed to have 6 lug wheels (like the front) but the rear only has 5. I'll have to wait until it shows up and get under it and see what's there. Before my neighbor started bitchin' I had located a 14 bolt for my '46 3/4 ton flatbed, with a 3.73 ratio, but it had 8 lug wheels. I've started looking for 6 lug rear ends to see what's out there. Looks like it won't be a big problem.

I guess the difference in the red truck and the kacky green truck above is the red one must be a 3/4 ton since the bed appears to be longer. I'm going by the distance between the front upright and the fender. From the other photos I've looked at the 1 ton looks like it has another upright just in front of the rear fender.

Can't wait to get the '40 here.

Joe
Posted By: 37 GC Re: 1940 size question - Sun May 23 2021 12:08 AM
I thought the 3/4 ton longer bed had 3 stake pocket supports ILO 2 that the regular 1/2 ton had...??
Posted By: Brad Allen Re: 1940 size question - Sun May 23 2021 01:45 AM
See the attached page from the 1940 Truck Data Book, it clearly shows three in the drawing, it does not appear in the measurement view.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/26243511465/in/album-72157631872034068/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/51196656783/in/album-72157631872034068/
Here is the 1/2-ton illustration.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/51197228654/in/album-72157631872034068/
Posted By: Donf Re: 1940 size question - Sun May 23 2021 03:05 PM
Except for the grill, rear fenders and Rear diff, it looks like my 1939 3/4 ton. The 1/2 ton would have the axle over the springs. The 3/4 will have the axle under the springs. The 3/4 ton would have had an additional short closed drive shaft in front to make up the additional 10" or so of bed length. (kind of like the GMC long bed). Don't want to violate any posting regs, but if you are trying to return this vehicle to original, I know where you can get a 1940 3/4 ton differential free. Send me a private message.
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Mon May 24 2021 01:43 PM
Looks like I've located a pair of '41 rear fenders near me. As I understand it they are the same as the '40. I've also located a 6 lug, 12 bolt rear end with a 3.73 ratio. Anyone know what the WMS to WMS was on the '40? The Oldcarmanualproject manual is missing those pages. The one I've found has 62".
Posted By: 35mike Re: 1940 size question - Mon May 24 2021 03:53 PM
Joe,
I think the green truck has been shortened. It also has a '41-'46 hood side panel. I can't find another photo of a pickup with the super short space between cab and rear fender.

Mike
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Tue May 25 2021 11:06 PM
Hey Mike,

Not sure why anyone would shorten a short bed but I guess, as they say, to each his (or her) own. Any thoughts on the 12 bolt, 3.73, 6 lug rear end for this truck? I've also found an online place that has Artillery wheels but I'm thinking they may have to wait until I get the basics done first. I can throw a pair of steel wheels on there for now.

Joe
Posted By: Brad Allen Re: 1940 size question - Wed May 26 2021 01:10 AM
Here are the axle information pages from the above cited book in my previous post.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/advance-design_parts_co/51203415881/in/album-72157631872034068/
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Wed May 26 2021 03:14 PM
Hi Brad,

Thank you for the info. Do you know if what they are referring to as "Tread" is the wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface or the center of the tires?

Joe
Posted By: Brad Allen Re: 1940 size question - Wed May 26 2021 06:24 PM
I always understood tread/track to be from center-of-tread to center-of-tread. Maybe someone else knows for sure?
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Wed May 26 2021 07:30 PM
I've always measured complete rear ends from Wheel Mounting Surface to Wheel Mounting Surface. On my '46 stake bed it didn't really matter too much since there were no fenders to deal with. I think I'll probably have to wait until the truck gets here and I can measure the space between the fenders to make sure. Looks like there are several 6 lug units out there so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.

Joe
Posted By: Mike B Re: 1940 size question - Wed May 26 2021 08:59 PM
Chevrolet uses tread width as Brad described in their sales literature to tell a buyer how wide the track is. In the real world of trying to ID axles in a junk yard we use WMS to WMS which is a lot more accurate when trying to retrofit it into something it never came in.

Mike B smile
Posted By: EdPruss Re: 1940 size question - Thu May 27 2021 01:01 PM
I agree with Brad, center of tread to center of tread, however, when comparing to others, wms to wms useful.

Ed
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Thu May 27 2021 01:22 PM
Brad, Mike & Ed,

Like I said, I'm just going to wait until the truck is in my garage and see how the rear end they put in it fits, pull the wheels off and measure the WMS distance. I'm going to pick up the '40 rear fenders later today. The cost to ship it has really gone up with the cost of diesel fuel.

Joe
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jun 05 2021 02:29 PM
Well I've finally found a shipper who doesn't want my left lung to move the truck. I was a little hesitant because of what I've read about vehicle transport brokers raising prices after they've got your vehicle on the truck, but these guys checked out.

The seller sent me a copy of his current registration and it does show the truck as a '39 which, based on my research, it clearly does not appear to be. I guess it's just another one of those things I'll have to wait and see when it gets here.


Joe
Posted By: 35mike Re: 1940 size question - Tue Jun 08 2021 05:13 PM
In a previous post, I mentioned the fender lamps as being a 1940 indicator. I jus took another look and see that they are aftermarket lights. The grille could have been changed sometime and replaced with one from a 1940. The instrument panel will tell the tale, they are very different. 1939 1/2 ton is series JC, 1940 1/2 ton is KC. These letters will be found on the I.D. plate.
For your sake, I hope it is a '40. '39 fenders are impossible to find.

Mike
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jul 03 2021 03:36 PM
Originally Posted by 35mike
In a previous post, I mentioned the fender lamps as being a 1940 indicator. I jus took another look and see that they are aftermarket lights. The grille could have been changed sometime and replaced with one from a 1940. The instrument panel will tell the tale, they are very different. 1939 1/2 ton is series JC, 1940 1/2 ton is KC. These letters will be found on the I.D. plate.
For your sake, I hope it is a '40. '39 fenders are impossible to find.

Mike

Hi Mike,

My truck dash is definitely a '40 with the rectangular instrument panel. I'm wondering if the aftermarket part of the lights are the amber lens. Still waiting for it to get here to check out the numbers.

Joe

Attached picture 9.jpg
Attached picture 16.jpg
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Fri Jul 23 2021 03:35 PM
Well the truck just got delivered. The VIN plate is right where it's supposed to be and it's definitely a 1940, 21KC10 2272. The rear end/drive shaft were replaced with an open drive line. At this point I'm not sure what kind, but it appears a little short since the front of the rear tires seem too close to the fenders. Although this could be because the rear fenders are off a '47 or later truck. Someone put it a solid steel floor in the bed so that's going to have to come out. I'll also be in the market for new running boards and front fenders. I've already located correct rear fenders and Mar K has the entire bed and bed wood kit. The original seat frame is in the bed so I'm going to have to get an upholstery kit to do that. The engine runs strong but I'm not sure what transmission is in it. I'll take some photos and post them when I get some time. It does start right up and runs well. Looks like there might be a little oil leak from the pan but I'll have to get under it tonight and see what's there.

Joe

Attached picture VIN Plate.jpg
Posted By: JiMerit Boltr#43 Re: 1940 size question - Fri Jul 23 2021 08:25 PM
Our old trucks were just work horses and parts from several years could be bolt on or made to fit with a little work. My 46 for example was one of these, like the great old song by Johnny Cash one piece at a time. Took me a while to discover my truck had 41 fenders on pass side 46 on the other etc etc. Dad cut off the back half of a 1 ton panel to make a flat bed during WWII!
Best of luck
Jim
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jul 24 2021 01:34 AM
Hi Jim,

Great song!!

Here are some photos of the underside and the trans. It's an open drive line, but it looks like they cut off the connectors from the old shocks and just bolted on the new springs and rear end. It must have come with a shorter drive shaft which is why the wheels are too close to the fenders.

At this point I'm not sure if I want to strip the whole thing down and do a big V-8 conversion with a Mustang II front end and 4 link rear or just go with the '40 closed drive rear that I've found and stay with the 216 that seems to be running fine. It looks like I can but an all new bed, tailgate and wood bed floor for somewhere in the area of $2500 with all the mounting hardware. Decisions, decisions. I'm going to DMV on Monday to register it and drive it for a little while and see what I think (that means see what Mama thinks) LOL.

Joe

Attached picture rear end.jpg
Attached picture rear shock 2.jpg
Attached picture rear shock.jpg
Attached picture rear spring 2.jpg
Attached picture rear spring.jpg
Posted By: Rich'sToys Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jul 24 2021 12:13 PM
JoeR,
With all due respect, unless you're a stickler for originality, I would leave the steel bottom in the bed. Obviously it was put there because the original wood was shot. Why undo something that was definitely an improvement?
Just my thoughts--it's your truck, not mine.
Posted By: Joe H Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jul 24 2021 12:36 PM
All the old trucks have rear fenders and tires that don't line up. No one knows why GM did this, but 99% have the tires to far forward. The fix is to drill a new locating hole in the axle mounts and slide the drivetrain backwards an inch or little more. Your fenders are likely original or at least mounted in the original holes.
Posted By: DES57 Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jul 24 2021 12:41 PM
JoeR,
I agree with Rich’sToys to leave the steel if it’s a daily driver, but wood sure is pretty. My ‘57 3200 has steel from previous owner so I purchased a 1/2” rubber mat to quite it down and protect the paint if I ever get that done.
Posted By: JoeR Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jul 24 2021 03:05 PM
Originally Posted by Rich'sToys
JoeR,
With all due respect, unless you're a stickler for originality, I would leave the steel bottom in the bed. Obviously it was put there because the original wood was shot. Why undo something that was definitely an improvement?
Just my thoughts--it's your truck, not mine.

Hi Rich,

The steel bed wasn't put in very well, there are gaps and it just look ugly to me. It's all got to come out to replace some other parts so my plan was to go with the entire bed kit from Mar K. My thought was that since I'd be buying everything, the bed, tailgate, wood and mounting hardware from one source it would fit together better rather than trying to find the parts I need from separate manufacturers. Right now I'm putting together a list of things that the truck needs and what all the costs will be. I'm still trying to decide if I want to go with just making it a driver, restoration or doing a full engine swap. A lot is going to depend on finances. As always.

Joe
Posted By: Justhorsenround Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jul 24 2021 03:28 PM
Just a side note about Mar-K. The former owner is an active member here, 59fleet, and has been really good about answering bed related questions. Even though the company changed owners a few years ago they still strive to put out a good quality product and their customer service is great.
Posted By: JiMerit Boltr#43 Re: 1940 size question - Sat Jul 24 2021 07:03 PM
Re. the steel bed, I believe GMCs used a steel bed NO? And good luck at DMV, I try to deal with AAA they can handle some transfer/registration issues, few DMV employees are up to speed with old vehicles.
Posted By: Rich'sToys Re: 1940 size question - Sun Jul 25 2021 02:04 AM
Originally Posted by JoeR
Hi Rich,

The steel bed wasn't put in very well, there are gaps and it just look ugly to me. It's all got to come out to replace some other parts so my plan was to go with the entire bed kit from Mar K. My thought was that since I'd be buying everything, the bed, tailgate, wood and mounting hardware from one source it would fit together better rather than trying to find the parts I need from separate manufacturers. Right now I'm putting together a list of things that the truck needs and what all the costs will be. I'm still trying to decide if I want to go with just making it a driver, restoration or doing a full engine swap. A lot is going to depend on finances. As always.

Joe

That makes sense. You know your own situation, and I don't. Sounds like you have a good plan. Keep us posted.
Posted By: TradToolworks Re: 1940 size question - Sun Jul 25 2021 03:18 AM
Originally Posted by JoeR
Not sure why anyone would shorten a short bed but I guess, as they say, to each his (or her) own. Any thoughts on the 12 bolt, 3.73, 6 lug rear end for this truck? I've also found an online place that has Artillery wheels but I'm thinking they may have to wait until I get the basics done first. I can throw a pair of steel wheels on there for now. Joe

Seems to be common with Hot Rodders, they will often swap the chassis with a car chassis. The trucks I've seen the beds shortened on (yes, 1/2 tons) had pretty souped up engines. Here's an example of such a '46.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ta3CJ5dAs7Q

I'm looking for a simpler life, my 235 is all I need, I just need the driveline spiced up a bit. My truck is painted with Rustoleum, best I can tell...with a brush.
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