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Posted By: John Milliman Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 11:55 AM
A couple of us are helping a neighbor (at the new Stovebolt HQ location) with his 1969 C-10. The plan is to remove the dead 305 and replace it with a 350. The 305 is locked up, even after two months of soaking all cylinders with a trans fluid and acetone mix. We are moving on.

So ... I have little experience with this era truck and know even less about crate motors, especially V-8's. Ultimate end state is just a good, reliable driver -- no performance or crazy other stuff. Plain, simple and reliable.

I started looking on line at Jeg's and other places and there is a dizzying array of choices that quickly made my brain hurt (not having much of one to start with AND being pretty much an inline 6 guy)...

Drop in and go would be ideal -- meaning that piecing it together (heads here, intakes there, carb somewhere else) is less than optimal as I do not know what to get for a particular short block.

What should we be looking at? What recommendations?

Will the 305 bell housing work? or are we going to have to switch that out to keep the original 3-speed in place? What other 305 stuff will we need to retain?

We're hopefully pulling the 305 this afternoon, should any of the local gang be interested in spending a very hot, very humid SoMD afternoon in an un air-conditioned shop with Sweet and I (the original ODSS OR at the farm formerly known as "Friendship Forest").

Thanks,
John
Posted By: Justhorsenround Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 12:15 PM
John, you might check in with your parts stores. Most if not all have crate engines available. This would give you the ability to deal face to face if problems arise. 🛠
Posted By: EdPruss Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 12:44 PM
Make sure to get the specs on the crate engine with exactly what parts are included-ex. manifolds, intake, water pump, alt, flywheel, distr., etc., bellhousing will bolt right up.

LS engines have different parts.

Ed
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 02:38 PM
Check with a local parts store (NAPA would be a good idea) and ask for a "long engine". That's a remanufactured block- - - -new or reground crankshaft, pistons, bearings, rings, cam, lifters, etc., plus a set of reconditioned cylinder heads. It should come assembled, valves adjusted, etc, and only require swapping sheet metal parts like valve covers, oil pan, etc. from the old engine. Swap the intake and exhaust manifolds, distributor, water pump, alternator, starter, etc. from the original engine, or upgrade to rebuilt accessories if you want to start with all the components with the same mileage. You can either go with the original 305 displacement (preferred) or "upgrade" to a 350 and create a Pandora's box of problems with incorrect carburetor and distributor advance curve calibration, radiator too small, etc. Your choice- - - - - I'd prefer to do it right the first time and replace the 305 with another one just like it.

Just my 10 cents' worth- - - - -2 cents adjusted for inflation!
Jerry
Posted By: rfs56trk Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 03:51 PM
I believe that unless someone changed it out previously that the original engine would have been a 307 in a 69 truck.
I have installed numerous crate engines from Jegs, some with aftermarket manifolds and carburetors and others just by transferring over the existing components. The most common 350 crate engine is the 195 HP version, they are the lowest price and perform well.
I installed one in a 76 Nova to replace a 305. It ran great with the stock Rochester 2bl carb and even passed smog.
The owner wanted to build the car for his son to drive to HS. It actually survived two sons which was a feat in itself.
Fred
Posted By: Wrenchbender Ret. Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 04:27 PM
The GM Goodwrench replacement engines are the only way to go. They are all new parts. I have installed hundreds of them with pratically no problems. Like 56trk says, The standard basic 350 is all you need .
It is a drop in replacement for almost any small block up to 85.
It seems Jegs has the best price w/free shipping. GM dealers can supply them. There is no set price. Some dealers are big in them & have a good price while the smaller dealers buy from them.
These so called "reman" engines can get you in a lot of trouble. One brand almost put me out of business at one time with all the come backs.

George
Posted By: coilover Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 05:20 PM
John,
Your friend may want to do a search on a "Turn Key" crate engine. These are complete right down to the air cleaner and are very practical for "one timers". They run about $800 more than a long block but save time, tempers, skinned knuckles, body blood supply, much profanity and even some marriages. The Chevrolet Division at GM really had their heads on straight from 1963 on; the 4cyl, I6, small block and big block all have the same bell housing pattern so all transmissions work. Now you can even buy a turn key hot rod engine for a paltry 22k.

[img]https://i.postimg.cc/ctCZVBdr/Roush-serpentine-drive-001.jpg[/img] [postimg.cc]
Posted By: Tony292 Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 06:50 PM
The 305 small block V8 was not available in 69. So if it’s a v8 it’s a transplant. There was a “big block” 305 V6 in that era.... is your freinds a V6 or V8?

That is important to know because if it’s a v8, all the motor mounts will align and you can bolt on the accessories such as alternator, starter, power steering pump, etc easily. If it’s a V6, then that stuff won’t swap over easily.
Posted By: 3B Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 08:10 PM
Hy John, up here the GM dealers used to have new engines called Targetmasters, around $2000.00-$2500.00, now they sell all manner if engines with all different levels of performance. As long as you stay with the small block Chevy engine all the accessories should transfer.
Posted By: BC59 Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Fri Jul 03 2020 11:20 PM
Originally Posted by 3B
Hy John, up here the GM dealers used to have new engines called Targetmasters.



G.M. hasn't used the Targetmaster name in years, have been sold under the Goodwrench name for years.
Have many stickers on my toolboxes, some from early '80's when I started are Targetmaster.
Posted By: MikeE Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sat Jul 04 2020 12:33 PM
I have used the engines Wrenchbender has recommended a couple times with no problems. The turnkey sounds good too.
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sat Jul 04 2020 03:02 PM
John, isn't this the same 307 engine you called me about awhile back? If so, I'll get onboard with the rest of the crew on replacing it with a stock-specification crate 350- - - -just be sure to upsize the radiator to something that can keep the extra ponies cool. I can recall a couple of "upgrades" from small displacement Chevy small blocks to bone-stock 350's that had chronic overheating problems because the radiators didn't get upsized at the same time. Crate engines are OK for people who can't (or won't) do a quality rebuild.
Jerry
Posted By: Dragsix Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sat Jul 04 2020 03:12 PM
I just saw one of those 195 Hp motors On the internet for just a hair above 2000. I am not sure you could get a quality rebuilt 350 for that money let alone an all new motor with a gm warranty. They are just hard to beat $$ wise.
Posted By: Tony292 Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sat Jul 04 2020 03:22 PM
Can’t remember but either jegs or summit has a crate motor 350 for 1600.
Posted By: John Milliman Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sat Jul 04 2020 09:31 PM
Sorry for the confusion ... it *is* a 307. I had the GMC 305 V-6 in one of my trucks and thought it was pretty much a boat anchor, so I guess I have 305 burnt into my brain housing group ...

Good input above -- thank you all.


We (Chris Sweet, John Vannatta and I) got the old engine pulled yesterday afternoon. For most of you above, it probably would have taken 45 minutes to an hour. It took us three brain surgeons about 4 hours. We ended up pulling the engine and transmission as a unit. This was my very first V-8 to mess with. smile To celebrate, Sweet and I got up at 0500 and went Striper fishing.

This truck is a column-shifted 3-speed manual. The clutch pedal linkage bellcrank rotates on a shaft whose one end is on a plate bolted to the engine block ... ? ... If I specify a 350 for a 1969 application, will it have the holes for this plate?

Thanks,
John

Attached picture engine-pull.jpg
Attached picture fishing.jpg
Posted By: Shaffer's1950 Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sat Jul 04 2020 09:48 PM
Well......How was the fishing???
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sat Jul 04 2020 10:40 PM
I believe the 350 block will have the bolt holes for the clutch linkage. If not, it's a fairly simple project to fabricate a bracket from angle iron that attaches with the bellhousing bolts to support the inboard end of the clutch pivot shaft. We used to use slightly modified pickup clutch linkage on the round track cars from the late 1970's which were not sold with manual transmissions originally. On the 1/4 mile tracks we used Muncie 4 speeds in 2nd. gear and 4.10 or 4.56 rear ends to get the right RPM range down those short straightaways. Off the turn at 3K-3500 RPM, and hit 7K 100 yards later before chopping the throttle for the next turn!
Jerry
Posted By: rfs56trk Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sun Jul 05 2020 03:39 PM
The late edition crate engines are a hybrid of sorts to fit numerous applications, they have the front engine mount locations drilled and tapped for the early engines and the center mount locations as well. As far as I know all other mount locator holes in the block and heads are in place. They also have dip stick holes cast in both sides with a plug for the unused hole.
Fred
Posted By: Hotrod Lincoln Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Sun Jul 05 2020 03:58 PM
Think about the discussions (no, I won't call them "arguments") stovebolters who encounter one of those hybrid blocks 50 years from now will have! If human nature hasn't changed much by then, there will be a few self-appointed gurus who will spout all sorts of off the wall pontifications about those engines!
LOL!
Jerry
Posted By: John Milliman Re: Crate Motor Advice needed - Mon Jul 06 2020 12:35 AM
Originally Posted by Shaffer's1950
Well......How was the fishing???
Well ... we had a nice slow boat ride ...

Thanks Jerry et al for the rest of the input. Good to know!
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