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Posted By: JD1 Carb question - Tue Aug 13 2019 01:25 AM
I identified my engine this week with the help of the forum. Thanks guys. I have a 1957 235 with a 1955 head.
I have a single Rochester carb with the stock gas filter and oil bath filter. I have a choke and throttle cable.

I would like to get a new carb and then rebuild my current carb to have as a spare. Can anyone recommend a place to purchase a quality carb that I can use ethenol gas with?
Or would a different carb setup be a better running (less maintenance) carb than the Rochester?

Mike's Carbs has a replacement for the Rochester than looks pretty good, but I don't think I'll be able to use the original gas filter or oil bath cleaner with that carb.

Thanks,
JD
Posted By: 49 3100 Re: Carb question - Tue Aug 13 2019 01:50 AM
JD--I would get a 32/36 from Langdon's Stovebolt and find non ethanol fuel. I have 2 1954 rebuilt 235 engines, one in a 49 and one in a 51 5 window..the one with the 32/36 purrs like a kitten..all rebuilt..Bill
Posted By: JD1 Re: Carb question - Tue Aug 13 2019 03:55 PM
Are you running the stock intake, air cleaner, and gas filter?

The only ethanol fuel around me goes for $10 a gallon.
Posted By: Joe H Re: Carb question - Wed Aug 14 2019 01:42 AM
What percent of ethanol are looking to run? Here in the midwest most all the fuel is 10-15% ethanol. I have no problem running 1948 W-1 Carters on this type of fuel.
Posted By: JD1 Re: Carb question - Wed Aug 14 2019 02:21 AM
It’s usually 10%.
Posted By: JD1 Re: Carb question - Wed Aug 14 2019 07:20 PM
Are there any opinions on the rebuilt carter yfs from classic Chevy trucks?
Posted By: WE b OLD Re: Carb question - Wed Aug 14 2019 07:37 PM
Langdon's is a good choice. Here.url=https://www.shop.cliffordperformance.net/68-Chevy-235-261-Combination-68C235.htm]Another choice but expensive.[/url].
Posted By: Jon G Re: Carb question - Thu Aug 15 2019 04:17 PM
Originally Posted by JD1
Are there any opinions on the rebuilt carter yfs from classic Chevy trucks?


We can't give you any encouragement on these because we don't have any idea who rebuilt them, and much worse than that nobody other than the person who worked on them has any earthly idea what parts might be inside them. No idea whatsoever. Unfortunately anybody doing this sort of work can swap parts from any YF into any other YF. The most common problem I've seen is that the float bowl (which carries the identifying marking of the YF model) can be swapped with throttle bodies and air horns of any model YF handy. This creates a mongrel carburetor which will never ever work as it was designed. For this reason alone, I would not buy one of them. Trust me, your money can be spent better elsewhere. Would you like examples? Here are two:

https://tinyurl.com/y5678u2v

https://tinyurl.com/y3fembwo

On both of these, the seller thinks this is a 3211s. It is no more a 3211s than it is a spaceship. No 3211s was ever made with a manual choke. These are guaranteed to be "frankencarburetors" assembled from (a) one 3211s float bowl and (b) throttle bodies and air horns from some other manual choke Carter body. They won't work.

Or this one:

https://tinyurl.com/y2hnwvhv

It claims to be NOS and it may be, but the images are out of focus and it appears to be rusted to the point it will never be ok again.

Over the past couple of years I've gone to great lengths to find as much of the remaining Carter YF information as possible so that any carburetor I have or that I sell can be checked and guaranteed to be what it should be...and it takes a while and some careful study to do this. It most definitely is not the sort of work a wholesale rebuilding operation is ever going to do. They can't afford to do work like that because time is money and their employees are paid based on the number of carburetors they "rebuild" during their shift.

Given your setup I would say you'd do best with a Carter 3211s carburetor although other Carter types might work fine. Are you interested in manual choke or auto choke?
Posted By: JD1 Re: Carb question - Thu Aug 15 2019 04:46 PM
I have the stock manual choke and throttle cable.
Posted By: Jon G Re: Carb question - Thu Aug 15 2019 05:22 PM
Thanks...I understand that's what you have now but I was curious as to whether you wanted to keep the manual choke. Going with an auto choke gives you other and more interesting alternatives. The Carter carburetors with manual chokes are at times not easy to find in good and unmolested condition. The 2100s would be the last Carter made for the 235 with a manual choke. I've been looking for one of the 2100s models for a friend, but haven't found any worth buying.
Posted By: JD1 Re: Carb question - Thu Aug 15 2019 06:53 PM
If I could get a consistent and better running carburetor I would have no issue running an electric choke.
Posted By: JD1 Re: Carb question - Thu Aug 15 2019 06:54 PM
Originally Posted by WE b OLD
Langdon's is a good choice. Here.url=https://www.shop.cliffordperformance.net/68-Chevy-235-261-Combination-68C235.htm]Another choice but expensive.[/url].

The Langdon site references running a heated intake manifold.
Is the stock intake heated?
Posted By: Jon G Re: Carb question - Thu Aug 15 2019 09:25 PM
Yes, the stock manifold is heated by the exhaust manifold and heat is regulated by the flap and bi-metal spring. You should make certain yours is working correctly. The bi-metal spring for the 235 is rather expensive, but seems I saw where somebody was using one made for a Jeep which was much less costly and worked the same.

The Carter (at least in my experience) is more smooth running and consistent than the Rochester. A large part of the problem with any Rochester B or BC carburetor is the power circuit. There's a power piston in there which is controlled by manifold vacuum which passes up from the throttle body and from there through the float bowl and from there to the air horn where it sucks the power piston up off the valve ball. If this doesn't happen (which is common due to either a loss of vacuum from a warped carburetor casting or simply a stuck piston from ethanol-laced fuel), the carburetor will run as rich as it possibly can all the time you're driving. In this condition, your gas mileage will probably be in the single digits. The whole scheme with that circuit is that when the engine loses vacuum (in the case of greater demands on the engine from hills, acceleration, etc) the power piston will be forced down by the spring which controls it. Then when this happens, the power valve will open up and flood the mast with more fuel...a lot more. There's a restrictor in there, but it doesn't really restrict much. The carb will still run as rich as Croesus. In the days when the carburetors were new and we had real gasoline, these carburetors worked better. But today problems are not easy to avoid and the Rochester design was never heralded as a stroke of genius. If you see one leaking at the float bowl to air horn gasket, the casting is warped and/or somebody forgot to put a gasket between them. Last summer I spent a lot of time and effort showing what this warpage was and how it can be corrected rather simply with a piece of 3/8 inch thick steel, common bolts and nuts, a dial gauge, some patience and common sense and a gas grill. All that work is posted on this site. But I'm told by learned men that even if you correct it, the same situation will return in a few years.

The Carter design doesn't have this power circuit...it compensates for extra power needs in other and saner, more logical ways. I've never been a fan of trying to adapt 2 barrels or 4 barrels to a 235. Even though I've always liked the 235 a lot, it is a dandied up tractor engine and over-carbureting it isn't necessary or even wise in most cases.
Posted By: panic Re: Carb question - Thu Aug 15 2019 09:25 PM
W/r/t "the float bowl (which carries the identifying marking of the YF model) can be swapped with throttle bodies and air horns of any model YF handy. This creates a mongrel carburetor which will never ever work as it was designed"

I agree.
Not speaking directly of that vendor (don't know them) but this problem exists throughout the industry. Many unsuitable variants can be made from interchangeable parts, whether innocently ("they came in the same box, so they must be from the same and correct carburetor") or deviously ("It's all I have left, and it's not going to anyone I know").

I write about the Linkert Model M (side-draft 1 bbl. for Harley-Davidson and Indian motorcycles) and some weird mix-n-match bodges have caused much grief over the years because of this.
Posted By: LeeD Re: Carb question - Fri Aug 16 2019 10:56 PM
I recently replaced my Rochester with a Carter 2100S from The Carburetor Shop and I have been mostly happy with it. It did not come with the choke cable bracket, but I was able to make just a slight modification to the bracket off the Rochester so that I could use it for the choke cable (and I can still use it on the Rochester if necessary). Unfortunately, the throttle cable part of the bracket does not line up correctly, so until I make a substitute, I have no throttle control. I drove it for a year without it before, so I am not in a hurry to adapt one. The problem I was having with the Rochester (leaking at the top gasket and some difficulty starting when hot) have gone away and the engine seems to run much smoother at cruise speeds. I have not driven it enough yet to check the mileage, so I cannot comment on the improvement that others have seen.

Lee
Posted By: LeeD Re: Carb question - Fri Aug 16 2019 11:02 PM
I just re read your initial post and saw the question about ethanol; my understanding is that though you may still have some issues with gumming if you do not drive it frequently, any new seals and gaskets used in a new kit should be okay with the use of ethanol. At least the low percentage stuff anyway. That being said, if I could find ethanol free gas, I would use it.
Lee
Posted By: JD1 Re: Carb question - Mon Aug 26 2019 05:52 PM
Thanks guys.
I ended up going with a 32/36 carb, spacer, gas filter from Langdon's site. I called the site and Tom answered the questions I had. He is a nice gentleman to talk to.

I do have a question for guys who are running the 32/36.

Did you cut up the hard gas and vacuum line for this new carb or do you just run hose from the fuel pump and distributor?
Having a combination of hard line and hose doesn't look as nice as the stock steel line, but I wanted to know what everyone has done.

Thanks,
JD
Posted By: Dcurtis Re: Carb question - Tue Aug 27 2019 03:24 PM
Nearly $10.00 a gallon for non ethanol gas ? Are you sure your looking for the right gas ? 100 or 110 octane race gas or avgas is probably around that price. but non ethanol gas isn’t really anything special and is usually readily available if you look. there is also a website or app to help locate ethanol free gas in your area. Ethanol free gas is usually marketed as recreation gas or marine gas. And is usually around $1.00 more per gallon than the 10% ethanol gas.
Posted By: carbking Re: Carb question - Tue Aug 27 2019 04:59 PM
Generally, $10. gasoline is either racing fuel or aviation fuel. NEITHER should be used in your engine. Much better to run 10 percent ethanol than either of the other two.

I have no clue about the 32/36, but as Joe H. mentioned in an above post; the Carter W-1 will function well on the 10 percent, or even 15 percent.

Jon.
Posted By: JD1 Re: Carb question - Wed Sep 11 2019 07:11 PM
RE: the $10 comments about gasoline above.

This is a great site for finding non-ethanol gas: https://www.pure-gas.org/

In my area there is only one local supplier of non-ethanol gasoline within 90 minutes. They are expensive but they are the only option. Yes, what I use is called "racing gasoline".
However, there are many different types of racing gasolines.

Here is what I currently use: https://www.sunocoracefuels.com/fuel/optima
Optima is referred to as a racing gasoline, but it isn't the same formulation as true "racing fuel".

I would rather use this gas than any of the 10% ethanol fuels that are available locally. Ethanol gas is a horrible fuel for engines and fuel systems that weren't designed for it.


Posted By: Green_98 Re: Carb question - Wed Sep 11 2019 10:59 PM
My Rochester's will be tossed off of the nearest bridge as soon as my Zenith 228 is rebuilt and installed.

Here's a few Carters for sale.....
https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...-carbs-1957-through-1962-235.html#UNREAD
Posted By: drdoug Re: Carb question - Thu Sep 12 2019 01:50 AM
Patrick,

I know it's tempting, but don't throw them over the edge... Chev's of the '40's is currently buying Rochester B cores for up to $75. Here's the form: Chev's Core Form.

I sent in three that were pretty much basket cases, and got full value on one, and half the max amount on two that were missing parts. Not a bad deal for what I considered paperweights.

Cheers!

Doug
Posted By: Jon G Re: Carb question - Thu Sep 12 2019 11:02 PM
Originally Posted by drdoug
I sent in three that were pretty much basket cases, and got full value on one, and half the max amount on two that were missing parts.


Well, you know whatever rebuilder Chev's of the 40s is using will take all those basket cases and mismatched parts down to the basement and turn them into as many frankencarburetors as they have the parts to make, saving all unused parts in one of his cleaning baskets for another day's work. And it is nearly a guarantee not one of them will work correctly (no matter how many adjustments the buyer tries) and all the king's horses and all the king's men will never be able to put humpty correctly back together again. Way too many variables in Rochesters. Sad but this little money chase by Chev's of the 40s just compounds the bad rap rebuilt carburetors get.
Posted By: drdoug Re: Carb question - Fri Sep 13 2019 01:09 AM
I agree with you, Jon... my post was partially tongue in cheek, and I wasn't trying to imply I would endorse one of the rebuilds. But the market is there. May as well get some value from the parts (which were more than likely already Franken-carbs) as throw them away, no? Those carbs I traded in were from a couple manifolds I bought, with no known pedigree.

FWIW, I'm running on my '54 235 a lightly refreshed NOS Stromberg BXVD-3 carb that I located a couple years ago. Runs great.
Posted By: Volfandt Re: Carb question - Fri Sep 13 2019 01:49 PM
I recently sold a couple 235 sized Roch B's to another popular aftermarket provider @ $50 each and used the credits towards a needed more expensive part. One of the carbs was from a popular on line rebuilder (not carbking) and it had a problem with a vacuum leak around the throttle plate that I couldn't get him to correct. I included that info upfront on the trade in. The other had a problem with the accelerator pump circuit and that info was also shared. I thought about making 1 out of 2 but was committed to running dual carbs and went another way, a successful way btw....

What the aftermarket provider (AMPs for short) does with those carbs is to be seen but I was upfront with them.

Oddly enough I recently retired my trusty old 49 216 engine that had a Roch B that ran flawlessly and without error for the 6 yrs I ran it. I drained it down and am thinking about hermetically sealing it up so I can reuse it on the 216 after I rebuild it or a very knowledgeable poster on these forums modify's it into a high pressure firebreath'n two-sixty-something monster 216, LOL.

Dave
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