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Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
#805463 Sat Dec 10 2011 04:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 26
K
New Guy
I just purchased a flame thrower 2 coil from pertronix. It is a 6 volt 45,000 v coil with 0.6 ohm resistance. The seller says it can be used with the points ignition for my factory 49 chevy truck. I know this should have been asked before I bought it, but do you see any issues with using it? My truck runs ok, but the coil looks very old and rusty and could be any original 49 coil. Thanks, Kurt

Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
Kurt_stovebolt #805500 Sat Dec 10 2011 07:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 11,765
D
Extreme Gabster
The coil is simply an oil filled transformer in a seals metal case. Generally the reason for
an automotive coil to fail is the oil dries out allowing it to over heat which causes a
breakdown of the insulation and the coil eventfully shorts out or opens completely.
Old coils, like old capacitors do have a shelf life they dry out over time depending on the
conditions some sooner than others and some seem to last forever.
If you're not having trouble with your coil and the engine is performing as it should at
speed then you may just have one of those forever coils. Just wire brush the case and
spray it with some Rustoleum black, carefully clean the contacts and keep on using it.
Denny Graham
Sandwich, IL

Last edited by Denny Graham; Sat Dec 10 2011 07:16 PM.
Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
Denny Graham #805503 Sat Dec 10 2011 07:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 26
K
New Guy
Thanks Denny for your thoughts. Upon looking at this new coil I received, they sent me the wrong one (I think). It's pertronix #45011. When I search the number it mentions it needs an ignitor and it's 12v, although it is unmarked (Can't get anything right anymore). I am hoping not to get screwed on this as this is not the coil which was listed for sale. Kurt

Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
Kurt_stovebolt #805519 Sat Dec 10 2011 08:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 29,534
ace skiver

Kurt,

That 0.6 ohm coil is made to be used on a 6v and 12v systems. I think they intend this to be used on a 6v system and on a 12v system that does not have a ballast resistor.

http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/flame/coils/chart.aspx


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban - part of the family for 49 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic - part of the family for 15 years
Z-series (54/55) GMC 350 (2-ton) COE - now part of Dave's family
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engine are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler.
Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
tclederman #805534 Sat Dec 10 2011 10:04 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 26
K
New Guy
Tim, that's a great chart! I searched for a while before and couldn't find any info like that. Looks like I may be OK then. I did send a message to pertronix before I saw this chart asking for their advice-will probably hear back next week. I thought after 60 years maybe improvements have been made on coils to provide a hotter spark, that's why I opted for a new one. Thanks Tim-

Kurt

Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
tclederman #805537 Sat Dec 10 2011 10:13 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,891
H
Boltergeist
A simple Ohm's Law calculation shows me that a .6 Ohm coil will flow 12.5 amps with 7.5 volts applied (normal running voltage for a 6V charging system) before the inductive reactance in the primary winding kicks in. That is approximately twice the current flow a set of points can accomodate without burning.

With 14.5 volts applied (normal charging system voltage for a 12V. system), the initial current flow will be over 24 amps. This coil is obviously designed to work with some sort of solid-state amplifier, as it will fry points on either a 6 or 12 volt conventional system.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
Hotrod Lincoln #805607 Sun Dec 11 2011 03:14 AM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 26
K
New Guy
[quote=Hotrod Lincoln]A simple Ohm's Law calculation shows me that a .6 Ohm coil will flow 12.5 amps with 7.5 volts applied (normal running voltage for a 6V charging system) before the inductive reactance in the primary winding kicks in. That is approximately twice the current flow a set of points can accomodate without burning.

Jerry, It sounds like you are knowledgable on the subject. Why do they promote the coil in the chart to be used with points? Or are they hoping you burn the points out so you buy their ignitor module? What are your thoughts on this chart? Thanks, I appreciate it.
Kurt

Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
Kurt_stovebolt #805612 Sun Dec 11 2011 03:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,891
H
Boltergeist
The resistance figure for that particular coil is approximately the same as the one used by General Motors on their HEI (High Energy Ignition) system, which is triggered by a solid-state module instead of a set of points. Points can only handle approximately 5 amps of current flow before they start to overheat and burn. The power transistors used in most of the factory-equipment modules can carry 15 amps or more without overheating, if the proper type of heat-conducting grease is used to mount the module to the distributor housing.

I have no idea why Pertronix would reccomend a coil with such a low primary winding resistance for use with a point-triggered ignition system, unless a voltage-dropping resistor in series with the primary winding was also used. Even then, the current flow across the points would be on the ragged edge of excessive.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
Hotrod Lincoln #805709 Sun Dec 11 2011 02:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 26
K
New Guy
I think I will just get a refund on this. The guy says he will refund, but I'm just out shipping. If there a 6 volt coil out there people have bought and are happy with it could you share the info. Next time I will ask first before buying. Thanks! Kurt

Re: Yet another 6 volt coil question-flame thrower II
Kurt_stovebolt #805746 Sun Dec 11 2011 04:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 19,891
H
Boltergeist
It's hard to beat the original-equipment parts that were engineered to run the vehicle to begin with. There's a big myth that somehow lots of voltage is needed to fire the mixture. What determines the necessaary voltage is the condition of the spark plug, and its gap. Clean, properly-gapped plugs will fire at less than 10,000 volts, regardless of the open-circuit capacity of the coil, and a stock coil will go to 25,000 volts or more of open-circuit capacity.

Coil optput is measured by a term known as "ampere-turns" A coil that flows 5 amps with 500 turns of wire in the primary winding will produce a specific amount of magnetism, which cuts across the secondary winding when the points open, creating the spark voltage. To increase the magnetism, increase the amps (lower resistance) or wind more turns of wire around the core at the same current rating. It's cheaper to build a low-resistance primary coil with fewer turns of larger-diameter wire than it is to add more turns of wire and keep the primary resistance the same. Bottom line- - - -that "45,000 volt" coil will only be producing 8,000 to 10,000 volts with clean plugs, just like the original-equipment coil, no matter what its max output capability might be! Hot coils are sucker bait for people who don't understand electricity!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
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