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Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
vwlfan #674130 Mon Aug 30 2010 03:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 1
K
New Guy
I am looking for a Barton American UA-50 - preferably restored - but used and working would be find; does anyone have one for sale or know where I can find one?

Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
KennyC1957 #676055 Tue Sep 07 2010 01:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 17
3
New Guy
All,

Just a FYI. If anyone is part of the Antique Automobile Club Of America http://www.aaca.org/ or SPAAMFAA, http://www.spaamfaa.org/ , their library has a ton of info on the Barton UA-50 pump. I am a member, and got the following info for $25 (cost of photocopying and mailing.
It's a great resource thats probably not as used as much as it should be. If your not a member, you should be, as it's well worth the membership price for the information they can provide.




Bulletin 8330-A - 4 color pages
Bulletin 8330-C - 6 color pages
Bulletin 8330-C, 2nd ed. - 6 color pages
Bulletin 8330-C, 3rd ed. - 2 pages
Bulletin 75, No. 2, U-35, U-40 and U-50 - 6 color pages
UA 50-60 Repair Parts Sheet - 1 page
Barton-American UA-50 sheet - 1 color page
Barton-American Type-UA - 4 color pages
Bulletin 75-S-1, No.1, Instructions for Mounting and Operating U-35, U-40, U-50 and U-60 - 4 pages
Instruction Manual for Mounting, Operating and Maintaining the
Barton-American Front Mounted Centrifugal Fire Pump - 28 pages


1954 Jeep CJ3B/Howe
Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
38FF #676131 Tue Sep 07 2010 04:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 586
M
Shop Shark
Kenny,

I might have one I'm willing to part with. Give me details on your application? Is this a replacement? How do you know that's what you want?

It would be used, not restored.

-Michael


Please type slow, as I can't read very fast.

1939 Chevy/Central Fire Engine
1941 Chevy/American Fire Engine
1950 Chevy/American Fire Engine
In the Gallery
More Photos in Me Gallery
Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
Mikestem #676365 Tue Sep 07 2010 10:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 17
3
New Guy
I just found an interesting fact about the Barton UA pumps. In the first "instruction manual", Edition #1, Bulletin 75-S-1, it says that
"Should the starter fail, the special cranking device funished with the pump (inserted in the the Pump Suction with the pump clutch in the engaged position) makes cranking of the engine through the pump just as easy and as effective as it would be had the pump not been installed"

Anyone ever seen one of these devices?

I assume that my pump is a later one, as it has a metal mesh screen that appears to be soldered in to the pump intake that is not removable, making using such device impossible with out removing it. I can see in the pump, and in the center of the impeller is a nut, which if you had a socket and long extension, you could probably crank the motor with the clutch engaged.

it is interesting that this fact is NOT mentioned in later versions of the manual.

Last edited by 38FF; Wed Sep 08 2010 04:47 AM.

1954 Jeep CJ3B/Howe
Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
38FF #677253 Sun Sep 12 2010 04:33 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 586
M
Shop Shark
Actually, one of the members of the Stovebolt Volunteer Fire Department bought a truck with a Barton Front-mount, and included was the device you describe. Basically, it looked like a right-angle lug wrench with a collar on it. The coller fit inside the pump suction, the wrench went around the square impeller nut, and, with the pump engaged, you cranked it like staring an old car by hand. Can't remember if it was somehow geared one way or the other.

The screen you're talking about is only "soldered" into the pump by dirt and corrosion. With some judicious use of a mallet and screw driver, or a pick, you should be able to remove it.

I agree that it doesn't get mentioned later, seems like everyone agreed that it was better to be sure the electric starter circuit was in good condition, than trying to start one of these by hand!

Of course, maybe if they just built the firehouse on a hill, with the floor tilted out, they could just pop the clutch . . .

-Michael


Please type slow, as I can't read very fast.

1939 Chevy/Central Fire Engine
1941 Chevy/American Fire Engine
1950 Chevy/American Fire Engine
In the Gallery
More Photos in Me Gallery
Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
Mikestem #677406 Sun Sep 12 2010 07:38 PM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 17
3
New Guy
Mike,

You were right. 10 minutes with a pick, and it popped out. I cleaned it up, and it's as it is supposed to be. Does anyone know of a replacement source for the screens?

Also, the ratio thats on the pump dataplate... Mine is 1.82 to 1 Does that mean for every 1.8 engine revolution the pump turns 1 times, or the opposite?

I have seen UA40 pumps on jeeps that were 1.60 to 1. I've seen on larger trucks, the 2.28 to 1 ratio. Im just trying to figure it all out.

Last edited by 38FF; Mon Sep 13 2010 02:50 AM.

1954 Jeep CJ3B/Howe
Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
38FF #677711 Wed Sep 15 2010 01:49 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 88
V
vwlfan Offline OP
Wrench Fetcher
38FF and Kenny

I saw an email notification that you posted on this thread but I don't see anything new on the thread. I think th board may still be having issues from the outage yesterday. Repost you questions if you can. - Bob

Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
vwlfan #677746 Wed Sep 15 2010 03:04 AM
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 17
3
New Guy
I had a few posts, but to sum it up.

Changing ratios wont work for me, I dont have the torque to power the 2.28:1 ratio gears.

Also, I have a "new" manual about the Barton pumps, gives LOTS of tech data on it, maintaince, repairs, specs, tolerances, etc. It's a 3 meg file, PM with your email, and I'll send it to you. I got it from Hale, who bought out Godiva, who bought out Barton. Also, if you call Hale with your pump's serial #, they MAY be able to give you a date of manufacture, who bought it (fire apparatus manufacturer wise, ect. The guy told me records are sketchy, but he had info on my 2 pumps.


1954 Jeep CJ3B/Howe
Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
vwlfan #700402 Fri Dec 03 2010 02:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 1
5
New Guy
I was wondering how your pump rebuilding went? I recently got a 58 Power Wagon Firetruck with a Barton UA50 on the front. It also has a Hale pump on the back run off of its own small gas powered engine. I haven't been able to find any data plates on the bed to see who built it. If anyone knows anything about my truck I would love to know too! Anyone know what something like my truck is worth? It has the original flat head 6 in it an it runs and drives. Thanks!

Here are the links to some pics of my truck:
http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jahild/IMG_4797.jpg



http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jahild/IMG_4801.jpg


http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jahild/IMG_4791.jpg


[IMG]http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p100/jahild/IMG_4790.jpg[/IMG]


Re: Barton American UA-50 Front Mount Pump
58_PW_Fire #700438 Fri Dec 03 2010 04:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,243
M
Shop Shark
That's a neat Power Wagon with the open cab thumbs_up

It's kind of like my 56 Chevy Brush Truck.

Mike B smile

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