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Ok so why the torque tube?
#167682 Sun Sep 19 2004 03:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 177
K
Kip Offline OP
Shop Shark
What were they thinking?
Adios, Kip


"I don't know what weapons will be used in the Third World War. But I'll tell you what they'll use in the Fourth - Rocks!" - A. Einstein

Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167683 Sun Sep 19 2004 04:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,820
H
Boltergeist
That's the way the Model T did it, and Louis Chevrolet just copied Henry!

The concept of a torque tube puts the driving thrust near the center of the vehicle, instead of pushing the car/truck along with the rear springs. it's a complicated, and really unnecessary way to get the driving thrust to the frame. However, lots of manufacturers used the process, as late as the mid-60's American Motors cars. Furd quit using the design in 1948, and Chevrolet hung on until the early 50's.
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167684 Sun Sep 19 2004 04:55 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 1,814
T
Member
Were there open drivelines out already? I could see how a torque tube would be easier to make if you didn't have U joints that could hold up for any length of time.


54 3100 with 235
62 flatbed dump C60 with 261
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167685 Sun Sep 19 2004 05:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 20,820
H
Boltergeist
Most of the torque tube systems got by with one u-joint, and it was enclosed where it could get better lubrication. Some of the really old stuff I've worked on had an open driveline, with some really oddball u-joint designs. Of course, most of the pre-1920 cars and trucks used a chain drive, even the original Mack trucks! Solid-rubber tires on that one, too!
Jerry


The murder victim was drowned in a bathtub full of Rice Krispies and milk.
The coroner blamed the crime on a cereal killer!

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167686 Sun Sep 19 2004 06:07 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 202
F
Shop Shark
And, it stops tall grasses from wrapping around the driveshaft when you travel from field to field.

Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167687 Sun Sep 19 2004 06:27 PM
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 975
P
Shop Shark
The last US car to use torque tubes were the 1967 AMC Marlins. When Hudson and Nash merged in 1954, their combined 1955 lines reflected Nash enclosed drivelines (Hudson always had open driveshafts from the '20's on). Very functional, but a maintenance headache when it was needed.


Pessimist - Sees glass as half-empty. Optimist - Sees glass as half-full. Gov't- Sees glass and takes it from you because you have a glass.
Political Correctness: A philosophical belief system bereft of common sense and logic, that supports and rewards ignorance and stupidity.

Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167688 Sun Sep 19 2004 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 394
B
Shop Shark
Kip--

Wadda ya say--poor enginneerin---the 3/4 tons werent too bad; but Hotchkiss be much better.


Buzz'n Half Dozen
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167689 Sun Sep 19 2004 08:33 PM
Joined: May 2001
Posts: 8,386
Extreme Gabster
Little known fact: Louis Chevrolet had nothing to do with the car Billy Durant marketed as a Chevrolet. He designed a much more elaborate and expensive car. Durant wanted something to compete with Henry. He put Chevrolet's famous name, which he already owned, on a competitively priced auto. Chevrolet's car was never produced. He ended his association with Durant and tried to go into auto manufaturing on his own but failed. Durant retained rights to he name.


"It's just a phase. He'll grow out of it." Mama, 1964

1956 Chevy 1/2-ton 3100
1953 Chevy 6100 "The Yard dog"
1954 GMC Suburban Now with a new proud owner.
My TRUCKS website
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167690 Mon Sep 20 2004 01:11 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 30,303
ace skiver
What were they thinking? Maybe, "It works - reliably."


From ChevyTrucks.org

And, from Jim Carter's wbsite:

Closed Driveshafts Forever

Occasionally we hear owners condemning the closed drive shaft system used in the 1/2 ton trucks prior to 1955. After questioning the negative comment, we almost always discover the real criticism is the low gearing of the ring and pinion in the differential. Yes, this lower gear ratio was created more for slower roads of year gone by, but it is by far not a poorly designed system. In fact, it is questioned if there has ever been drive shaft and u-joint combinations that exceed the durability of this GM quality engineered closed unit.

Over 50% of the surviving older 1/2 ton pickups continue to use their original closed systems. Of these, the majority have had little or no servicing other than keeping lubrications in the transmission and differential.

Consider this when you realize the last GM closed drive shaft system was produced in 1954. Many others have been in irregular service prior to the 1920’s. Also remember that many 1/2 ton pickups were often given abuse far in excess of the manufacturer’s recommendations.

What modern open drive shaft system has been able to compare with this unsurpassed record? None!! Sure, the newer open u-joints are easier to change. They better be. They require attention or replacement so much more frequently!

Another Example of GM Quality!!!



We recently received the following comment from John Berkeley Ball. He also confirms the quality of the General Motor's 1/2 ton closed drive shaft and differential.

Dear Jim Carter

Thanks for your excellent articles. One very pertinent point I feel that you should mention about closed drive shafts is their absolute impervability to rear spring wind up. Used on the farm over soft ground with heavy loads, you could not afford to send your rear end into drive breaking pulsations every time you lost traction, whether the shocks were worn out or not (some were single action any way). What a huge advantage over the Hotchkiss rear end! this is an often unknown design attribute that Chevy engineers were unfoundedly maligned for - at least by today's city slickers...

John Ball

You may relate comments to this web site or Mr. Ball direct at john_ball@telus.net.

(sorry about cut/paste from JC site, he does not make linking to his site very useful)

Tim


Tim
1954Advance-Design.com [1954advance-design.com]
1954 3106 Carryall Suburban [stovebolt.com] - part of the family for 49 years
1954 3104 5-window pickup w/Hydra-Matic [1954advance-design.com] - part of the family for 15 years
- If you have to stomp on your foot-pedal starter, either you, or your starter, or your engine, has a problem.
- The 216 and early 235 engines are not "splash oilers" - this is a splash oiler. [chevy.oldcarmanualproject.com]
Re: Ok so why the torque tube?
#167691 Mon Sep 20 2004 02:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 394
B
Shop Shark
Interesting piece Tim--Ive read that Patrick Dykes is a proponent of torque tubes as well--I've always preferred open drivelines--but hey I'm no enginneer. I sometimes wonder if purist tendicies don't influence this debate/ :p


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