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Anyone have real world experience with wet sanding orange peel from Acrylic enamel paint & buffing out to a decent shine or finish ? I've been shooting my 66 C10 as I've made progress on the body work . If it were a real work truck, I'd put it in service as is. But as is is not going to cut it at the local lDunkin Donuts Saturday morning cruise in .

I had one friend suggest wet sanding then re shoot it with clear acrylic enamel. Anyone done that ?

I experimented on a section of the hood. Started with wet 800, then 1500 & finished with 2000. Turned smooth as a baby's behind. But the buffing , not so good.

Anyone with experience, good or bad?

You’ll need different compounds. First with a rubbing compound, then a polishing compound, then finish it up with swirl mark remover. You'll also need separate pads for each stage. Stay away from hard edges as you can burn thru really quickly. I leave them for last in each stage, finishing them by hand.

I would not start with any coarser than 1500. In fact, even 1500 can take more buffing than I wanna do. And here's a product suggestion: skip the Meguiars #105 and use the Griot's Complete Compound available at Auto Zone. Here in AZ it seems the Meguiars dries out too fast while the Griots stays in the pad (has oils or something that doesn't let it dry out) and you can continue working the surface without adding more and more compound.

Here's my formula (red truck single stage enamel):
1) 1500 only for the worst orange peel and/or taking it down quickly
2) 2000 preferred, get it smooth as a baby's bottom
3) Medium or coarse foam pad application of Griot's
4) Meguiars #7 Show Car Glaze to restore color
5) Your choice of carnauba or whatever UV protectant you choose

A lot of folks rave about CSI. I have the kit but haven't found the time yet.

CSI Polishing Products [csishine.com]

I use a lot of PPG ALK-200 which is a single stage industrial enamel. I like it because it gives me a finish that doesn't look "wet" like base/clear does.
It also has a lot of use properties that I like. I use it for my frames as well as the interiors and body. I believe it's also the paint that the major Chevy parts suppliers sell.

I apply it pretty heavy because I know that I will be sanding it.

I use Trizact 3M Hookit Foam Backing sanding pads. You can get them 1000-5000 grit. They are a little pricey but we'll worth it. They seem to last a long time if kept clean.
The rougher the grit, the faster it cuts , the deeper the scratches, and the harder it is to get the swirls out. I like to start high about 3000 and see where I'm at. Then go higher or lower depends. I usually go to 1000. At 3000, you should have a smooth shiny surface. Each grit is designed to remove the scratches from the previous sanding. Skipping steps doesn't necessarily help.
Remember smooth and shiny surfaces are two different things. A wavy surface can still be shiny. I use a DA to keep it smooth.

As to compounding, its really a paste made up of particles that are too small to be fastened to a pad. All of the polishing companies have systems that either fill the scratches or sand them off. Waxing is basically filling scratches and compounding/sanding is shaving them down. Find out what grit your compound is before using it. After 5000, you might just be going backwards. I like 3M products... I tend to stay with the same company. They have a 3 step system I like. It's called Perfect or something like that....

As to clear coating, your basically just covering your paint with a clear coating which fills in any scratches and then you might need to do your sanding and compounding to that surface. Depending on how well you sprayed it on. One advantage is that your not sanding on your paint color so there is less chance on cutting through to or past the paint layer.

By the way, wet sanding is just a process of lubricating the surface when you sand with really fine grit sandpaper. Compounds already have the lubricant built in. I don't see why you would need to do that if your clear coating....

Mike

RLB, did you use a catalyst in the acrylic enamel or is it straight air dry? It will be important to let the finish cure as long as possible, so you are not plugging up the abrasive paper with gummy deposits, the paint will cut easier and smoother if it is fully cured. I wet sanded some acrylic urethane and buffed, no clear before or after.

You can add a harder to the ALK -200, it's called ALK-201 I believe. It's not a catalyst like a two part epoxy. I believe the full cure time is about 7 days.

Mike

Unless the tree huggers have forced the paint manufacturers to changer their formula, acrylic enamel hardener contains some cyanide compounds that are extremely toxic and can be absorbed through the skin. The safe way to use the stuff a few years ago was to wear a full coverage "shoot suit" that leaves no skin exposed, and use a respirator that supplies filtered air from outside the paint booth. Of course, it's been 25 years since I did any professional-level paint and body work, so things might have changed since then!
Jerry

I believe that isocyanate is a primary component in most 2K products. It's the main ingredient in the hardeners. If you use Acrylic Enamel, you don't need to use the hardner. It doesn't work the same in Acrylic Enamel as it does in epoxy products so you can do without it but it takes longer to fully harden.

Mike

I always thought hardener was used to enhance gloss as much as anything else.

On Acrylic Enamel there is some of that. I know that I can buy different gloss levels of ALK-200 without using the hardner. I use their satin for the frame. On two part epoxy style paints many refer the catalyst as the hardner but it's actually serves a different purpose. The catalyst binds the molecular chains of the first part to form the paint we all know and love. I believe on Acrylic Enamel the hardner moves it way to the surface to give it a hard surface. I'm also told that it will harden by itself if left for a while.

Mike

I sprayed Acrylic Enamel in a body shop back in the early seventies and we did not add any hardener. We used heat lamps initially to aid in drying. It took several weeks before the paint was hard enough to buff them out. Most jobs went out the door without buffing as the paint laid out really nicely and unlike lacquer didn’t require buffing. I don’t remember if hardener was even available, but I may be mistaken.

Why don't we put the speculation to rest? Attached is the Tech Data Sheet for ALK-200.

The top of page 2 shows hardness with and without ALK-201 (which is a polyurethane enhancer, and does contain isocyanate ingredients). Straight ALK-200 CAN be softer than with ALK-201, but can also be the same hardness. The Pencil hardness scale goes HB, F, H from softer to harder. Also note that chip resistance can be better WITHOUT ALK-201, and glossiness is only slightly improved with ALK-201.
At the bottom of page 2 shows that the paint can be flattened by the addition of a flattening agent, which is different than ALK-201.
Another item is that the time for the paint to fully dry is 7 days with or without additive.

One issue with using ALK-201 is that the container says that it has to be used completely within 14 days of opening, as it's moisture activated. That means that a 1/2 pint container will treat a gallon of paint at the 15:1 mix ratio. So if you buy a quart of ALK-201 (most readily available), you'll waste most of it unless you're doing multiple paint jobs.

So to answer the OP's question, you'd need to wait at least 7 days before attempting to wet sand or buff that particular Alkyd Enamel. Like Phil says, it lays down very nicely. If you have orange peel, you're either using too large a tip on your paint gun or have the adjustments completely wrong. I found it to be very easy to paint with. I've used a 1.3 tip with very good results.

Nicely put.

Mike

I used the dealer supplied catalyst. No gummy deposits while wet sanding. That part of operation went really well. Buffing seems to be an aquired skill . I 'm not seeing any sand scratches, just buffing swirls with less than good shine.

Thanks. I'll look into the swirl mark remover. Good advice regards the hard edges. Also, the paint on the back of the cab is a yr old now. I think I'll work on my buffing skills on the back or parts that will be hidden with bed installed.

I want your paint job ! Question: Is your single stage acrylic or one of the other enamels ?

I started using acrylic enamel in the 70's as well. (I had shot plenty of alkyd up to that point) As time went on I started using the hardner & always began shooting with one coat of non sanding primer/sealer just prior to the acrylic paint, with good results.

However, it's been 20 years since my last overall acrylic enamel paint job and I seem to be a little rusty now. I'm 77 now & not looking to go back to painting trucks or anything else. Just looking to make my C10 look a little better.

I've done a little color/clear 2 stage with good results too. Usually just replacing the factory peeling clear coat on one of my vehicles or helping out a grandkid with a fender bender & no money to pay an insurance deductible. Good results meaning no buffing of the clear coat needed.

Thanks for all the replys everyone. Much appreciated.

Thank you! It's just a basic single stage enamel.