Stovebolt.com Forums The Shop Area The HiPo Shop Fuel Injected 216

Holley makes a Sniper unit specifically for the Ford 170/200/250 inline six to replace the Autolite 1100 carburetor.

Does anyone make a "bolt on" fuel injection system for Chevy inline sixes? Would a Holley Sniper 1100 system work on a S16? Would there even be adapters that would accept a Ford pattern on the Chevy Intake?

Just wondering if anyone has built a fuel injected 216.

"Lipstick on a pig"! The primitive port shape and lack of any kind of way to improve it noticeably makes any attempt at fuel injecting a stovebolt engine a fool's mission. The only really effective injection system is sequential port injection, which requires a separate intake port and injector for each cylinder, something that's utterly impossible with the siamesed ports of all the stovebolt engines, including the 194/230/250/292 series. Shared exhaust ports further complicate the breathing situation.
Jerry

Gotcha. I figured there had to be a reason nobody is doing it or talking about it.

I was thinking about it more for reliability over the many problems with carburetors and fuel pumps associated with these engines rather than a performance enhancement.

It is pretty neat to see the little Ford 200 six with a store bought fuel injection system.

Aren’t more sophisticated head$ available from Falconer? ‘62 on.

Ed

Anything is possible, with enough time money, and dedication to a lost cause. If I was going to spend a lot of time and money on an injected inline six engine, I'd start with a Ford 300, an AMC 258, a GM Atlas six, or maybe a Toyota Supra Turbo DOHC engine. Slavishly sticking to something that says "bowtie" simply for the sake of brand loyalty doesn't make good nonsense- - - - -unless you're getting well paid to spend the other guy's money. That's how I stayed involved in round track racing for a few decades- - - -working for guys who had deep pockets and the "Go fast- - - - -turn left" addiction.
Jerry

Which makes me repeat the same question I've asked before: When are you going to abandon the tractor engines and jump onto the Atlas engines? A REAL performance inline six AND a Chevy. I have the specs for an exhaust cam that deletes the VVT and has been proven in off road rides. Also have several FREE Atlas engines for test platforms.

There’s at least one guy around here that made a Sniper work on a 235 with positive results so far. I don’t think it was a performance thing so much as a drivability thing.

I’m really surprised Holley hasn’t created a system with the one barrel GM pattern yet…given the size of that market. I’m not looking to do it, but I understand the reasons of those who do.

Funny Jerry mentions the AMC/ Jeep engine. I was just pondering last night, what it would take to make one of those look less obvious in a Chevy engine compartment. The goofy valve cover would give it away quickly.

They are as common as dirt, reliable, capable, and have tons of aftermarket support.

Yes, that's what my thinking was. The six cylinder Fords don't really gain any performance - maybe fuel economy improves - but you don't have the carburetor issues anymore. The Autolite 1100 is an excellent carburetor but "new" ones are all foreign made and, like the Chinese Rochester Bs, they are crap.

The conversion requires an electric, in-tank pump with a built-in regulator.

I wonder if the person you're talking about adapted the Autolite replacement or if he used one of Holley's other units.

He used the Autolite version with a custom adapter. The guy is from Nebraska but can’t remember his username. Scroll back a few pages in the HIPO thread and you will find it.

Interesting. Just to satisfy my curiosity I'll do that.

I just found it. His is a 235 but since the Holley unit can be used on a 170, 200, and 250 Ford, I imagine 216 and 235 fit right in the range.

https://www.stovebolt.com/ubbthread...sniper-install-on-a-235.html#Post1450618

$900.00+ for a single barrel throttle body injection system- - - - - -I can do a lot of carburetor tinkering for those kinds of dollars!
Jerry

That's true but if you're having constant carburetor troubles it might be worth it to some people not to have to deal with it ever again. Instant cold starts and no possibility of vapor lock sounds pretty good.

If I were doing a complete build with a rebuilt engine, installing something like that might make more sense. I don't think I'd want to pop one onto a well worn 70 year old engine.

Dollar wise the only way to justify the expense would be to use the truck as an actual daily driver. I don't think many of us could or would give up the comforts of something a "little " more modern. Otto you may the exception.

Haha! You're right Craig.

I don't know what I'm missing because I never had it! I'm excited that my truck has a passenger side rearview mirror! Even my Cadillac doesn't have that! I love driving this truck for work.

So I will take the other side of the coin. I like to tinker. But tinkering on a carb full of fuzz from the lousy gas we have to use, or junked up just from siting, the constant taking apart and search for quality rebuild kits, the deteriorated accelerator pumps, deteriorated fuel pump diaphrams, junked up needles and seats, clogged passages, rusted check balls because of the water drawn into the fuel by the alcohol, is not my idea of fun. Truth is, a basic injection system that would work on our inline six motors would be a nice thing. Especially for those of us geting a little longer in the tooth then we may like. Nice to just get in after winter storage and have it fire right up. Leaves more time for more enjoyable tinkering.

Dragsix summed it up for me.

I’m the guy with the Sniper on a 235 and I got tired of all the negatives he listed. My truck is put away for winter now but I do daily drive the truck in good weather. It’s performed well and I’m glad I did it. I like to tinker also.

Is it cost effective to do this modification? No it isn’t but I didn’t purchase a 65 year old truck to save money, it’s my hobby.

There’s a lot of smart folks on Stovebolt.com and my hope is someone will see what I’ve done and improve on it. We all benefit when that happens.

Hi Dan, that's pretty cool. You did exactly what I was wondering/contemplating about.

I only found out about the Autolite Sniper conversion when a Youtube video popped up on my feed with a girl that installed it on her '65 Falcon. I never thought anybody made bolt on EFI for inline sixes so never explored it further prior to that.

I was considering it for a '66 Mustang but the cost is off-putting. Then I thought if the Mustang can do it, why not the 216?

Are you still getting about 14mpg? Any hiccups or troubles with the system?

You used a plastic under bed fuel tank. Would the system work with the in-cab tank? I read differing views on the need for a return line as it applies to the 200 six. Do you think a return line is necessary? required?

What was the total cost of your system , excluding the tank?

Hey Otto,

I average a little over 14 MPG. I have about 1000 miles on the truck since the modification. I’m mulling over taller tires as an attempt to improve mileage a bit.

I don’t want to jinx myself but so far it’s worked flawlessly. I did have an annoying whine from the fuel pump but I tracked that down to the steel fuel pressure line from the tank to engine compartment. Better clamping of the line resolved that issue. I did have to play with the fuel enrichment adjustment for starting to get it to start better cold. The adjustment for fuel enrichment is done via the controller as are most adjustments and is very easy to do.

If you’re OK with keeping the tank in the cab and you don’t mind the noise an external pump makes, then yes the in cab tank can be used. My Task Force truck’s fuel tank had a drain plug (not sure if an AD tank is the same) that could be used for the return and yes you do need a return. The throttle body incorporates a regulator that regulates fuel pressure to 58 psi and Holley recommends a pump that supplies 60 psi.

Speedway has the Quick Start Manual and the Installation Manual posted on their website for the Sniper unit. Two great resources.

I paid a little less then $800 for the Sniper unit. I have about the same amount in a fuel tank, Holley in tank pump/sending unit, steel pressure and return lines, fittings, fuel tank straps, fuel pump block off plate and a fuel indicating unit to marry the mismatched tank sending unit and the fuel gauge. My brother in law fabricated the throttle body to manifold adapter at no charge for putting up with his sister. Utilizing your in cab tank will reduce the cost of installation a bit but keep in mind you’ll still need an external fuel pump and they’re expensive.

Considering that the original tires were about 30-31" in diameter, I think larger tires that would help with your fuel economy.

225/85 R16 are about the closest in size to the original tires. I have them on my Packard and they look right at home under big fat fenders.

The in-cab tank feeds via gravity from the bottom rather than through a sending unit. Would the fuel pump mount somewhere under the cab, I guess? A return line would have to be configured to empty into the filler neck, I suppose. Is the gas cap vented?

Are there no in-tank units available that would work in the factory tank? I guess it would have to be tall and skinny.

Noise? No problem. It'll have to compete with the valve clatter and wind noise. Add in the heater motor in the winter and nobody will know there's a fuel pump under the floorboards!

I don’t know of any pumps that could be retrofitted to your original tank.

My gas cap is not vented but the tank is vented with a Tanks Inc roll over valve.

I think most people mount their external pumps to the frame rail.

It looks like the 216 intake manifold studs are on 2 11/16 center to center. The Sniper Throttle base plate bosses are on 2 3/4 centers. You may not need an adapter???

As far as a return, could you drill a hole next to the sender and install a bulkhead fitting for a return?

I suppose a bulkhead fitting would work. This is only theoretical right now. I don't have plans to do it since my rebuilt fuel pump and rebuilt carb are working fine right now. I'm just thinking about it as a possible future project.

Where does the computer controller go? How is that hooked up? Will the sniper work with a breaker point system?

The display/controller goes in the cab. They supply a holder for it.

It will work with points.

Sorry for asking so many questions. Here are some more.

Do I understand correctly that you set up the sniper unit at a "base" level and then, as you drive the vehicle, the computer learns how the engine runs and either adjusts itself to the conditions or tells you what changes need to be made?

I suppose that since it isn't connected to the dizzy as well, it only has to worry about fuel mixture and not engine timing/advance.

Does the original throttle linkage hook up to it in roughly the same way as the carburetor?

Yes you do basic set up and it does learn and self adjust.

You can interface with the distributor if so choose. I didn’t do that on mine.

I had to make a new throttle linkage from the bell crank on the side of the block up to the throttle body. Not hard to do at all.

The two manuals that you can print off of Speedways website are really good and explain the system very well. I’ll see if I can send them to your email.

I hope you install it, I think you’ll like it.

The more I read about it the more exciting it is. I have too many other things going on with other cars right now to start anything like this. The price is also prohibitive, especially since the truck technically belongs to someone else. It's really intriguing, though.

The Mustang may eventually get it. The truck actually runs really well with the rebuilt YF carb and pump.

The photo of your engine bay shows what looks like a fuel pump down on the driver side. Is that what it is? I thought the pumps had to be back by the tank.

That’s an aftermarket spin on oil filter.

Thanks, Dan.

I just discovered that Craig has already emailed me the two manuals.

Now I have something to read before I go to bed!

Thanks Craig.

IMHO Jeep 6-bangers have a ton of potential if you after power, reliability and available parts.
I'm quite happy with the 261 in my 41, but I guess if I had to do it all over again, I would look into Jeep.

Frank

A (very pragmatic) friend of mine kept the tank behind the seat, but run a line from the bottom to an other tank between the rails in the back.
The return line also goes to the filler neck of the original tank - external pump somewhere in the back on the rails close to the new tank.

Many ways to skin a cat, IMHO not a bad solution if you want to keep the original filler, and almost twice the fuel capacity now.

Frank

I had a Volvo inline six from the early 1970's with a VERY rudimentary electronic port fuel injection system. I believe it was a Bosch K-Jetronic. It used an electric motor driven remote fuel pump mounted on the frame just ahead of the fuel tank that produced 50-something PSI of fuel pressure. With an adjustable pressure regulator and a return lie to the tank, it would probably solve the problem of how to pump gas on a stovebolt installation.

For instance:

www.ebay.com/itm/363747105311? [ebay.com]

Jerry

Jerry, you should install EFI on that crazy new engine you're building.

Maybe- - - - -if I can figure out how to aim individual injectors at the back of every intake valve without creating coolant leaks in the cylinder head. It might be possible to use three injectors, one in each intake port, and cycle them once every turn of the crankshaft. That would be more efficient than a single throttle body injector that just dumps fuel at random into a plenum under the throttle plate like a carburetor does, and lets it find its own way to whatever valve opens next. There would be less opportunity for the fuel to fall out of suspension and puddle on the bottom of the manifold runners that way.
Jerry