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#1451492 Thu May 12 2022 10:20 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,464
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Started hanging my doors today and got the driver's door on and the hinges adjusted fairly well. Belt line reveal is on the money. Have a slight issue with the gap at the front where I installed a cowl patch, but fixed most of that by tweaking the door edge a bit. I'll work on the cowl edge a bit later. But the other issue (maybe larger) is that the rear bottom of the door is too far in. The hinge edge and top of the door are OK, but the bottom hits as the door goes flush at the reveal molding. The lower hinge can't go outboard any more and the fit against the cowl is good side to side. I checked the body (which I did extensive work on, replacing the front of the floor) and it's slightly off diagonally at the hinge pillars. I have 1/8" difference between the bottom inboard bolt hole of the top hinge and the top inboard bolt hole of the bottom hinge on the opposite side. It's in the direction that would help the door fit. I think I can untweak the body by pulling the driver's side top hinge post in a bit with a come-along but I'm going to hang the passenger door to see if it has the opposite problem before trying that. The other option is to tweak rear lower corner of the door outward. These are the original doors and hinges (rebuilt), so I would have expected a better fit.

Diagonal bracing at the hinge pillar is one thing I didn't brace when I was rebuilding the floor and that probably got me. Moral of the story is to brace in all directions, including diagonally.

If anyone has thoughts, please weigh in.

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Kevin
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
Busting rust since the mid-60's
klhansen #1451507 Fri May 13 2022 12:23 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,220
B
Curmudgeon
Kevin did you take pictures before you removed the door?

Take what I say with a grain of salt. The hinge pockets of the AD are a weak design. AD door hinges can rust and bind.
If the hinge binds , human instinct is to push the door harder (pushing the door open as well as pushing the door closed).
This causes the hinge pocket to bend depending on the direction. The door is sprung. The door gap can now be off or the door position too far in or out.
If you look at the picture, there is no easy access to the hinge pocket.

The hinge itself is too thick to bend without heat.
The area of the door where the hinge resides is stronger than the hinge pockets.

Sorry for the long explanation but is this what you are seeing?

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Door Hinge Pocket.jpg (39.67 KB, 104 downloads)

"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use."
"I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,464
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Thanks for the reply. I believe the hinges pillars are in good shape, and that's not my problem. I do have pictures, but they wouldn't help in this situation, as it's self-inflicted.

Hung the passenger side door, and in spite of measuring the door and the opening for it where I installed cowl patch and cab corner, I apparently got the rocker welded in with the opening too small. The door edges overlap at the bottom. But the passenger door is outside the body at the bottom and the top is too far inboard, opposite of the issue with the driver's door, so I'm getting set up to pull the hinge pillar back into alignment. That should help both doors. The top of the passenger door is also too far inboard.
The issue of the opening for the passenger door being too small can be corrected with some grinding and welding on the door edges. The belt line on the right side is correct, and the door hits the opening at the top front corner, so that indicates to me that this cab was worse than it originally looked. The gap at the driver's side top front corner is wider than it should be. That says the top of the cab at the windshield posts is off as well. It's just metal, and time.
Pics of the passenger side door.

Moral of the story here is measure three times, weld once. blush

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Kevin
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 866
D
'Bolter
Kevin, shoot me if I'm off the beaten path......if you have a contour gauge, take it and "mold it" to the passenger side cab starting above the belt line close to the door opening. Take it an compare it to the drivers side. Something looks amiss. Do the same thing on the door panel starting at the top of the belt line and down. Do this as close as you can to the "door gap". Using a 10" contour gauge helped me immensely, allowed me to compare and decide. If this bit of no cost advice helps, great, if not...well , it only cost you the time it took to read it. Keep us informed.

Last edited by Dusty53; Fri May 13 2022 03:11 AM.

Ron
1954 Chevy 3604 - A work in progress...
Veteran, USMC

" You can't keep dancing with the Devil and wonder why you're still in Hell ! "

"Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions"
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,464
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Ronnie, I'm not quite understanding what you're wanting me to measure (which direction.)
If you mean in line with the front-to back, I think the cab is tweaked a bit on the driver's side (top pushed forward.) You can see that looking at the cab in reference to the door.

This cab had rusted out front cab supports and had settled quite a bit on the passenger side front and may have caused the whole top to twist forward on the driver's side. I'll make some more measurements, but i think pulling the upper driver's hinge in may help that as well. We'll see.

I'll post more about the issue as I work on it more.


Kevin
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 866
D
'Bolter
Originally Posted by klhansen
Ronnie, I'm not quite understanding what you're wanting me to measure (which direction.) Vertically , parallel to the door gap, up and down. Where I'm going with this is that the cab right below the beltline looks to be pushed in. It may be the photo angle and or my vision.

If you mean in line with the front-to back, I think the cab is tweaked a bit on the driver's side (top pushed forward.) You can see that looking at the cab in reference to the door.
Yes , agreed . Check the windshield fitment, it can be a great guide and using it will help make sure the windshield and seal fit properly. Guessing you already know the window opening dimensions are in the FAM.

This cab had rusted out front cab supports and had settled quite a bit on the passenger side front and may have caused the whole top to twist forward on the driver's side. I'll make some more measurements, but i think pulling the upper driver's hinge in may help that as well. We'll see.

I'll post more about the issue as I work on it more.

Last edited by Dusty53; Fri May 13 2022 11:34 AM.

Ron
1954 Chevy 3604 - A work in progress...
Veteran, USMC

" You can't keep dancing with the Devil and wonder why you're still in Hell ! "

"Everything happens for a reason, sometimes the reason is you're stupid and make bad decisions"
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,518
P
AD Addict
In the interest of learning so I (and others) don’t fall into the same pit fall when I replace my floor and the inner lower cowl panels, you believe the problem started long before you replaced the floor. Due to a bad body mount which allowed the one side to dip and over time and bad roads allowed the cab at the hinge pillar to go askew.

What would you do different to prevent your issue?


Phil

1952 Chevrolet 3100
Project Journals
Stovebolt Gallery

‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters
“Three on the Tree” & 4:11 torque tube
12v w/ Alternator
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,464
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
Originally Posted by Phak1
In the interest of learning so I (and others) don’t fall into the same pit fall when I replace my floor and the inner lower cowl panels, you believe the problem started long before you replaced the floor. Due to a bad body mount which allowed the one side to dip and over time and bad roads allowed the cab at the hinge pillar to go askew.

What would you do different to prevent your issue?
Like I said, measure three times and weld once. wink

The biggest error was not confirming the opening dimension at the bottom of the passenger door before welding the rocker in place. I had bracing welded across the solid sheet metal at about the floor level, but that apparently wasn't enough. But apparently that wasn't in the right place as I must not have read the tape correctly to position the bracing. I also braced the hinge pillars at the lower hinges side-to-side, and did double check that dimension against the FAM weld checking page. What I didn't do was check the diagonal dimensions (that I just found to be 1/8" off) between the upper and lower hinge bolts. If I had checked that before welding in the cab floor, cowl parts and rockers there would have been plenty of flexibility to move it back into position. I'm going to try to pull that part back into alignment. But moving that will likely move something else, since the cab is now a solid box. My rotisserie braces between the hinges and the striker apparently weren't enough to hold the lower lock pillar in the right location.

This truck had been hit on the left front, as evidenced by a replaced left front fender, back when it was still orange. and it's possible that tweaked the door frame at the front window/windshield area. Again, that could have been more easily fixed prior to welding.

Measure, measure, measure THEN weld. And brace everything diagonally as well as horizontally.


Kevin
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
Busting rust since the mid-60's
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 5,464
Housekeeping (Moderator) Making a Stovebolt Bed & Paint and Body Shop Forums
So I rigged up some chain and a come-along and pulled on the upper driver's door hinge. The diagonal measurements are now the same.

I played with the driver's door hinges a bit and adjusted it so the front lower hinge is a little further out than I'd like, but the rear of the door now hits just below the striker location. And should be pretty close to flush at the bottom rear.

Also played with the passenger door and have it adjusted so nothing hits, but it's a little proud of the body. I don't think I'll have to work on the door edges or the body opening sheet metal. I'd rather not get into that.

So I'm calling it the old Russian oligarch - Boris GUDENOV. wink

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IMG_4814.JPG (116.04 KB, 52 downloads)
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Kevin
Newest Project - 51 Chevy 3100 work truck. Photos [flickr.com]
#2 - '29 Ford pickup restored from the ground up.
First car '29 Ford Special Coupe
Busting rust since the mid-60's
klhansen #1451617 Sat May 14 2022 11:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 2,518
P
AD Addict
It looks like the passenger door is a bit low in the back. I wonder if raising it would help with it being proud? Drivers door looks perfect, nice work! chug


Phil

1952 Chevrolet 3100
Project Journals
Stovebolt Gallery

‘59 235 w/hydraulic lifters
“Three on the Tree” & 4:11 torque tube
12v w/ Alternator
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