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Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 40
D
Dixon Offline OP
'Bolter
Hello to all truck electricians,

i am almost done with my C60 and almost everything is working :-)

But I need your advice.
When I start the engine longer it keeps turning even though the key is out of the ignition. Really bad.

I have my starter and siren running through a Cole Hersee 24059 Continuous Duty SPST.
I had no data from the relays at the time of installation.

The document states:

750 A Make and 100 A Break
Int. ratings: 10 sec On 30 min Off

Now I suspect because I turned the starter too long (longer than 10 seconds), the relay stayed closed and the starter continues to turn even though the key is out. Likewise the siren.

According to the old siren wiring diagram, a Cole Hersee 24023 12V Intermittent Duty Solenoid SPST was installed. But it has almost the same data:
Int. ratings: 10 sec ON, 20 min OFF.

Where is the error, I have not yet fully understood?

I have attached a picture of my starter wiring. I read that you don't run the current flow for the starter (terminal 15) through the ignition switch, that's why the relay.

There must be a relay that can do this?

Thank you very much in advance.

Greetings Brian

Attached Images
Starter Wiring.jpg (18.89 KB, 144 downloads)
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 682
7
'Bolter
The starter motor has it's own relay, it is known as the starter solenoid and is the "can" mounted on the top of the starter motor. You should not need the extra relay in the starter circuit but if you choose to use it won't hurt anything. If it were mine I would try a new relay and wire it so it is dedicated to the starter, it appears as though the relay is sticking, or it's a "latching" relay and incorrect for that application.


1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 single speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 181
B
'Bolter
Originally Posted by 78buckshot
You should not need the extra relay in the starter circuit
I agree.


'52 GMC 150 driver, so not a REAL Stovebolt.
Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 682
7
'Bolter
I looked at the Cole Hersee 24023 and the 24059, they are not a latching relay, you have either a bad relay or the signal wiring is keeping it energized, check for voltage at the small studs after you turn the key off-should have no voltage there.

Last edited by 78buckshot; Tue Apr 19 2022 01:08 PM.

1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 single speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 40
D
Dixon Offline OP
'Bolter
Ok, thanks for the tips.

But what do the dates mean?

- 750 A Make and 100 A Break
- Int. ratings: 10 sec On 30 min Off

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 24,576
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Does the starter motor continue to run after the engine starts? If the engine doesn't fire, it's possible for the load of cranking the engine on the pinion gear to keep the gears engaged, and also keep the solenoid contacts closed, even if the voltage to the solenoid is removed by turning the ignition off. Tune the engine so it starts quickly and unloads the drive gear, and the problem will disappear. I've encountered the problem several times, and making the engine start reliably always makes it go away.
Jerry


"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Kris Kristofferson

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!

WAG MORE- - - - - -BARK LESS!
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,813
C
'Bolter
A 24059 continuous duty should be fine for your siren or any other accessories. You really shouldn't need an additional solenoid for your starter. However if you want an additional solenoid to save your key switch, a 24023 would be in order. But you will need to have two separate solenoids. My fleet of Diesel trucks are wired like this. A type 24059 for the heater etc and a type 24023 in the starter circuit. From your key switch a wire from the accessory position goes to the 24059 and a wire from the start position goes to the 24023. You cannot use the same solenoid for both accessories and starting. If you do not understand the English, send me a personal message with a phone number and I will explain in German. Translation programs are not very good with technical terms.

Joined: Feb 2016
Posts: 682
7
'Bolter
If in fact the siren and starter are wired as he has posted, the siren is not activated through the 24059, he is showing that the terminal is used as a junction and the relay is only triggering the starter solenoid. Not sure if that is how he intended to draw it?


1957 Chevrolet 5700 LCF 283 SM420 single speed rear, 1955 IH 300U T/A, 1978 Corvette 350 auto, 1978 Yamaha DT175, 1999 Harley Davidson Softail Fat Boy
Joined: Nov 2021
Posts: 40
D
Dixon Offline OP
'Bolter
Two relays are used for the siren and for starting the engine, independently of each other.

The siren has its own 24059 and is activated with a switch from the interior.

The starter itself is connected directly to battery +.
I use the 24059 only to save my ignition switch. I did not run terminal 15 (hot key, is that what it's called?) to the Ignition terminal for the starter, but run that initial voltage for the starter through the relay.

I hope that I could explain it reasonably.

Where exactly is the difference between the 24059 and the 24023?
Thank you :-)

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator [deepl.com] (free version)

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 24,576
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Once again- - - -does the engine start? It's possible the problem is a mechanical one in the starter, like a weak solenoid plunger return spring, not electrical.
Jerry


"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Kris Kristofferson

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!

WAG MORE- - - - - -BARK LESS!
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