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Don't

Irwin Arnstein working on his
1959 Chevy 1-Ton


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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 24,733
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
If I already had the 4 BBL intake, my first choice would be to run as far, and as fast as I could from any kind of 4 barrel carb, and use a Holley list number 7448 350 CFM 2 barrel. That will be only slightly over-carbureted, not the pie in the sky pipe dreams of grandeur that most stovebolt builders seem to prefer. The most common mistake virtually all hotrodders make, regardless of what kind of engine they're building, is "too much cam"- - -followed pretty closely by "too much carburetor". They end up with an engine that only runs well at astronomically high RPM ranges that the average street engine never sees.
Jerry


"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Kris Kristofferson

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
Ernest Hemingway

WAG MORE- - - - - -BARK LESS!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,379
C
Carburetion specialist
I am guessing you will not love that aluminum flywheel if you plan to drive the vehicle on the street.

Racing, yes, but street........hope your heel/toe driving technique is up to snuff.

I have owned two, and still have one of them; so very familiar with their advantages AND disadvantages. They significantly improve the way an engine will accelerate ABOVE a given threshold; and literally KILL ALL low-end torque!

The first was an off-topic 4 cylinder that made more than 2 HP/CID at the rear wheels! With a 5.13:1 rear end, it wouldn't pull a 1700 pound car in first gear below 2500 RPM. But when the tach hit 4000, you better be ready to shift, because 2 heart-beats later is was at 9000.

The one I currently have is in a 350P V-8 producing about 1.5 HP/CID. I started this build when I was younger, but it took 28 years to finish as I was always building carburetors for others. By the time I got it finished, my heel/toe coordination was not as good as it had been 28 years earlier.

Hot (after about 30 minutes) it idles grudgingly at about 1000 RPM. Until it warms to normal temperature, it won't idle below about 1800, and would die at every stop sign. Finally had to install a carb with a manual choke. Each time I approach a stop sign for the first 30 minutes, pull the choke (amount depends on how long the engine has been running). Yes, the car runs like a scalded dog about 3000 RPM, but if I knew it would take so long for me to finish, I would NEVER have considered the aluminum wheel. I rarely need 3000~6000 RPM these days.

Please understand BOTH of these engines were DESIGNED for high RPM (the four cylinder red-lined at 9500, the V-8 at 9000) so the aluminum wheel gave benefits.

Not saying you will have the same experience as I, but something to think about.

Jon.


Good carburetion is fuelish hot air
The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify
If you truly believe "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!
[image]http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Avatar.jpg[/image]
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 22
G
'Bolter
Thank you all for the info and help. Very much appreciated.


Grandpas_48
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 1,142
D
'Bolter
You will definately have the experience that Jon is speaking of. That 235 needs inertia to get going. Aluminum flywheel is fine for a round track motor because once you are in the rpm range, you generally stay in that general range so you dont necesarily need the inertia. But a street driven car, you need some weight to get you parambulating. Clifford use to sell a really nice steel flywheel. McLeod made them for him. I have one on one of my motors. Purchased it probably in 85 or so. Clifford no longer sells them. A couple of years ago I spoke to McLeod they told me they still have the blueprints for making them but cost would be very high. If I remember correctly they speculated in the 700-800 range. So that is not really an option. So I think you are stuck figuring out what year motor you have, getting a stock cast iron flywheel, facing the pressure surface, flipping the ring grear around, balancing the flywheel with the pressure plate, and then the harder part, finding top dead center and confirming whether the bb on the flywheel and pointer on the bellhousing lines up, or whether you need to remark the flywheel for TDC.

Last edited by Dragsix; Mon Mar 07 2022 03:22 PM.

Mike
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 24,733
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Ditto on the aluminum flywheel comments. We ran one for several years on a 1/4 mile dirt tracker in California with 327 and 350 engines. RPM in the turns was 3K-3500, and at the end of the straightaway we were turning 7K or so. The flywheel allowed us to "stretch the straightaway"- - - -getting on the throttle sooner coming off the turns, and driving deeper into the turn before lifting off the gas. The lightweight wheel let the engine accelerate, and also slow down quicker. The "idle" speed on those engines was anywhere from 1500 to 2200, depending on which camshaft we ran. Low end torque was nonexistent. People have offered me big bucks to build a street engine like that, and I've always refused. Doing race engine stuff on a street machine is beyond stupid, and I didn't need the gripes, complaints, and bad reputation a disgruntled customer would spread over the grapevine, even though I would have done exactly what he asked for!
Jerry


"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Kris Kristofferson

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
Ernest Hemingway

WAG MORE- - - - - -BARK LESS!
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,707
P
'Bolter
Successful use of aluminum flywheel on the street:
1965 Valiant sedan, 3100 lbs., 340" LA engine, 350 hp?
Chrysler 833 4-speed, 3.09:1 1st gear
Chrysler 8-3/4" axle, 3.91:1 ratio.
Torque multiplication in 1st: 12.1:1
Blip the gas, slide the clutch out, done.

If your 1st gear X axle is less than 10, you want a steel flywheel or different gearing.

The sensitive part of the carburetor is the primaries. If they're small enough the car will have good manners.
2 bbls. only have primaries, and they're larger than the primaries of a 390.

Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 2,379
C
Carburetion specialist
Originally Posted by panic
If your 1st gear X axle is less than 10, you want a steel flywheel or different gearing.

Agree - my two examples:

4 cylinder - 15.2
V-8 - 9.36

Jon


Good carburetion is fuelish hot air
The most expensive carburetor is the wrong one you attempt to modify
If you truly believe "one size fits all" try walking a mile in your spouse's shoes!
[image]http://www.thecarburetorshop.com/Avatar.jpg[/image]
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 2,998
J
'Bolter
Please listen to what Jerry and the other Jon have told you about that manifold and the 235. When I was in high school and college (very long time ago), this was supposed to be the ultimate "fix" for the 235...something you could bolt on and make it run just like a V8. And 4bbl manifolds were everywhere. J.C. Whitney sold them and they were also advertised in every hot rod magazine. What almost always happened was this: the person put on the manifold and whatever 4bbl they could find that would fit. The 235 now ran worse than ever and no amount of adjusting helped. But for some odd reason they would not abandon the scheme. Two...some mechanic boasting of "knowing a lot about racing engines" would tell the person he needed different spark plugs, a dual point distributor and special spark plug wires. So out the window went more money, unwisely wasted. Three...when none of that worked, that same mechanic would later tell the person what he really needed was a different cam to make it run right. And surprisingly many followed this advice and now had wasted a bunch more $$ on a 235 that might have to be pushed or parked on a hill to get it started, would not idle at all, would not run worth a flip and drank gas like crazy. Am I saying no inline 6 worked with a 4bbl? No. Pontiac Division had an Overhead Cam 6 that ran great with one...but it was a very special 4bbl engineered specifically for that engine. It was John DeLorean's project. Try to find one of those carburetors today. If you do, you'll need a whole bunch of money and even then the 235 will never run like that Pontiac did. Good luck!


Jon

1952 1/2 ton with 1959 235
T5 with 3.07 rear end
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,371
B
Curmudgeon
It's called M A R K E T I N G and American businesses are experts at it.

They put a Carter AFB on a 1917 Chevrolet 171 cubic inch four-cylinder engine.

Notice the 5 angels? They open up a vortex to make that car or truck really move.

You know it's fact because you can see it right there in print.

Angels not included.

Attached Images
ATOMH.jpg (117.29 KB, 143 downloads)

"Adding CFM to a truck will only help at engine speeds you don't want to use."
"I found there was nothing to gain beyond 400 CFM."
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 24,733
H
Kettle Custodian (pot stirrer)
Back in 1962 one of my high school friends got his first car- - - -a 1952 Chevy 2 door sedan with a 216 and a 3 speed that his father gave him after the local Ford dealer offered an outrageously low trade in number on the 62 Fairlane with the 221 V8 that he bought. He promptly bought a 3-carb aluminum intake manifold and some adapter plates and fitted the 216 with three (count 'em) Stromberg 97 two barrels and an electric fuel pump! His driveway had a slight uphill grade to the public road, and the car never made it up that incline. It did, however, end up with blistered paint on the hood from the carburetor fires caused by the lean backfires and flooding.
Jerry


"Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"
Kris Kristofferson

Cringe and wail in fear, Eloi- - - - -we Morlocks are on the hunt!

There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.
Ernest Hemingway

WAG MORE- - - - - -BARK LESS!
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